"Charge it, but check the math" from the Washington Post - 14 Aug 05
Sep 29th, 2005, 07:06 PM
#63
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xyz123 -
Found your travel stories about the merchants fascinating.
Please continue with your tales of what you would do if a merchant refuses to ring up a purchase in sterling or euros.
thanks!
Brenda51
Found your travel stories about the merchants fascinating.
Please continue with your tales of what you would do if a merchant refuses to ring up a purchase in sterling or euros.
thanks!
Brenda51
Sep 29th, 2005, 07:12 PM
#64
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Write this on the charge slip (in a place where it can't be torn off):
<b>Local currency not offered</b>
Then sign it. You have put the merchant on notice that you intend to dispute the charge with your card issuer because the merchant has broken the issuer's rules.
If they're smart, they'll undo the dollar charge and redo it in local. I say "if they're smart" because when you (or any cardholder) disputes a charge, the issuing institution sends the merchant a challenge to produce the signature document, and the merchant then has to expend time and effort to locate it, copy it, and forward it to the issuer. The issuer will then back out the DCC transaction and charge your account at the local rate in effect that day. There is no way the merchant can win in this kind of confrontation, so it would be stupid of them not to correct it on the spot and let you pay in local.
<b>Local currency not offered</b>
Then sign it. You have put the merchant on notice that you intend to dispute the charge with your card issuer because the merchant has broken the issuer's rules.
If they're smart, they'll undo the dollar charge and redo it in local. I say "if they're smart" because when you (or any cardholder) disputes a charge, the issuing institution sends the merchant a challenge to produce the signature document, and the merchant then has to expend time and effort to locate it, copy it, and forward it to the issuer. The issuer will then back out the DCC transaction and charge your account at the local rate in effect that day. There is no way the merchant can win in this kind of confrontation, so it would be stupid of them not to correct it on the spot and let you pay in local.
Sep 30th, 2005, 04:39 AM
#66
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It is interesting that this cancer is almost nowhere to be found in France...maybe it's part of the French thing not to give up any of their identity to the invading Anglos you know trying to insist one speak French and trying to purge the French language of English expressions to defend the purity of the French language.
Or perhaps it is against the law in France to use any currency other than local currency...the French are very big on passing laws like that.
Patrick...now that I think about it I can see one problem with your method of trying to deal with this. What if your currency weakens against the currency of the merchant in the time it takes for the bill to come and possibly in that time the devaluation of your currency might mean the price in your currency, even if converted by the cc company after a dispute, is higher than the DCC amount. I know your answer would be then don't complain but you still would have lost and been scammed by the merchant and paid more for the item than you would have if the charge had been processed properly in the first place!
Not saying it's not a way of dealing with this scam but....
Or perhaps it is against the law in France to use any currency other than local currency...the French are very big on passing laws like that.
Patrick...now that I think about it I can see one problem with your method of trying to deal with this. What if your currency weakens against the currency of the merchant in the time it takes for the bill to come and possibly in that time the devaluation of your currency might mean the price in your currency, even if converted by the cc company after a dispute, is higher than the DCC amount. I know your answer would be then don't complain but you still would have lost and been scammed by the merchant and paid more for the item than you would have if the charge had been processed properly in the first place!
Not saying it's not a way of dealing with this scam but....
Sep 30th, 2005, 04:44 AM
#67
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Sorry Patrick..it was Robespierre I should have been addressing but the way this forum is set up you can't correct errors once you have posted which is a change most other forums have long ago made.
Sep 30th, 2005, 08:26 AM
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Welcome back Ira, I hope you had a wonderful trip. Thanks for the advise Robespierre. I can always count on you and Ira to give such logical common sense advise. When I go to Scotland next spring, I will definitely ask for local currency before using my credit card and then I will inform the manager that I will be writing on the credit card slip "Local curreny not accepted/offered" hopefully to avoid the problem all together.
Sep 30th, 2005, 08:31 AM
#70
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You're right Robespierre and I didn't mean to indicate that but if they refuse following your tactics is the best idea but it has its own perils which was all I was indicating but there really is no other way except if you want to challenge through visa that the amount should be whatever the exchange rate was + 1% on the date of the transaction....
Sep 30th, 2005, 10:19 AM
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Agreed.
Except that some card issuers absorb the 1% network fee instead of passing it through to the cardholder. Capital One is mentioned frequently in this context.
And, of course, currencies fluctuate both ways, so your transaction reverted to local currency might just as easily settle in stronger dollars than on the date of the purchase.
Except that some card issuers absorb the 1% network fee instead of passing it through to the cardholder. Capital One is mentioned frequently in this context.
And, of course, currencies fluctuate both ways, so your transaction reverted to local currency might just as easily settle in stronger dollars than on the date of the purchase.
Sep 30th, 2005, 03:04 PM
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I want to thank the posters on this board for bringing this to everyone's attention, and for me in the nick of time. I called my card companies and it's 2% or 3%, so I applied and received a card from my credit union that does not charge a DCC.
As for the method to address this when it occurs, more of us should respond with a universal phrase to write on the slip and/or say (i.e. previously suggested "LOCAL CURRENCY NOT OFFERED"
. Thank you all for saving me 1% to 3%
As for the method to address this when it occurs, more of us should respond with a universal phrase to write on the slip and/or say (i.e. previously suggested "LOCAL CURRENCY NOT OFFERED"
. Thank you all for saving me 1% to 3%
Oct 16th, 2005, 04:14 PM
#73
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Conversion fees are indeed a crapshoot! We just returned from a month in Ireland, Scotland and England. We used American Express (supposedly 2%), MBNA Visa (supposedly 3%), and Chase Master Card (supposedly 3%). Here are the NET conversion rates we got from each of the 3 companies, all charges in EUR within a period of 4 days:
American Express: 1.2788
Chase: 1.283
MBNA: 1.2415
This is second month that MBNA has had a much better conversion rate, despite the bad rap they are getting.
The idiocy is that one has absolutely no way of knowing what base rate the credit card company will use, so it's always a surprise.
As for the "dynamic currency conversion" scheme, only one B&B operator offered to make the charge in US dollars. We declined and there was no hassle. The other was a small hotel that said "it's the way the machine does it and it only gives you an approximation of the conversion rate." We let it go as we had a plane to catch so we don't yet know just how bad the conversion rate will be. We'll see.
American Express: 1.2788
Chase: 1.283
MBNA: 1.2415
This is second month that MBNA has had a much better conversion rate, despite the bad rap they are getting.
The idiocy is that one has absolutely no way of knowing what base rate the credit card company will use, so it's always a surprise.
As for the "dynamic currency conversion" scheme, only one B&B operator offered to make the charge in US dollars. We declined and there was no hassle. The other was a small hotel that said "it's the way the machine does it and it only gives you an approximation of the conversion rate." We let it go as we had a plane to catch so we don't yet know just how bad the conversion rate will be. We'll see.
Oct 16th, 2005, 04:37 PM
#74
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After 2 weeks in England this finally happened to us, purchasing theater tickets at one of the Leicester Square booths. The guy in the booth insisted there was nothing he could do to put it through in sterling, and there was no one else to appeal to. So we had it credited back and paid cash. The rate as stated on the cc slip would have been about 2.7% higher than other cc charges we made the same day.
Other than that, it looks to me like I got either the same rate with ATM or cc, or a slightly better rate using my Capital One Visa.
Other than that, it looks to me like I got either the same rate with ATM or cc, or a slightly better rate using my Capital One Visa.
Oct 16th, 2005, 04:54 PM
#75
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crkwc...
MBNA did not impose the additional 2% charge on all its many credit cards; many of them still remain which pass along the 1% MC or visa fee...that will soon be changing as MBNA has been bought out by Bank of America and Bank of america imposes this immoral fee on all its credit cards so it's not surprising the MBNA rate was better.
As far as the dcc, the excuse that when your currency appears on a charge slip is one of the standard lies these clerks are trained to tell.
The fact is...
1. You were not offered the choice to pay in euro and you should have noted this on the charge slip and then contested it through the cc company.
2. As far as the other poster, it is of course a lie when he says he can't stop the conversion. Before the charge is completed, he must acknowledge on the terminal that you agree to accept dcc. Again I wouldn't pay cash, the cash you exchanged cost you more than even the rip off by dcc would cost. Rather if they refused to do the charge properly, I would write DCC declined on the sales slip and contest it through your cc company.
MBNA did not impose the additional 2% charge on all its many credit cards; many of them still remain which pass along the 1% MC or visa fee...that will soon be changing as MBNA has been bought out by Bank of America and Bank of america imposes this immoral fee on all its credit cards so it's not surprising the MBNA rate was better.
As far as the dcc, the excuse that when your currency appears on a charge slip is one of the standard lies these clerks are trained to tell.
The fact is...
1. You were not offered the choice to pay in euro and you should have noted this on the charge slip and then contested it through the cc company.
2. As far as the other poster, it is of course a lie when he says he can't stop the conversion. Before the charge is completed, he must acknowledge on the terminal that you agree to accept dcc. Again I wouldn't pay cash, the cash you exchanged cost you more than even the rip off by dcc would cost. Rather if they refused to do the charge properly, I would write DCC declined on the sales slip and contest it through your cc company.
Oct 16th, 2005, 05:10 PM
#76
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Actually, xyz, the cash didn't cost us more than the cc would have with the dcc. The cash cost us US$1.81 per pound with no transaction fee. The dcc credit card would have cost $1.86.
Of course, after reading this thread, I had planned to contest it as you described. But it was a matter of getting to the theater in time for the curtain so I took the easy way out.
Of course, after reading this thread, I had planned to contest it as you described. But it was a matter of getting to the theater in time for the curtain so I took the easy way out.
Oct 16th, 2005, 05:33 PM
#77
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Incidentally, not to cry over spilled milk, but the official half price theatre booth in Leicester Square does not do the dcc thing; I wonder which of the ticket booths you went to and whether you truly got a good deal as the scuttlebut is these places, other than the official booth, are rip off joints.
Oct 16th, 2005, 05:38 PM
#78
I was at a fodors GTG on Saturday lunch time and two woman mentiond this scam and how they had to argue to get the euro rate. My citibank charges 3% on foreign transactions, so I try to bring more euros than in previous years.
Oct 16th, 2005, 06:06 PM
#79
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We saw 3 different booths, xyz, one on a corner, and then 2 across the street on the same block. We checked prices at 2 of them and they were the same. So can you tell me which one is the "official" booth? Years ago there was only one -- it was easy then!
Oct 16th, 2005, 06:50 PM
#80
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xyz123,
Thanks for keeping up a response to this dcc issue because it hurts everyone who travels thinking they can handle their own budgets. The simple thing is that ever 1% on 100,000 euros is a fair amount of cash for doing nothing. When you think that this is less then the daily transactions of some of the major stores who have opted to use this system, it amounts to 360,000 euros in a year of unearned profits. I could live comfortably on that.
Thanks for keeping up a response to this dcc issue because it hurts everyone who travels thinking they can handle their own budgets. The simple thing is that ever 1% on 100,000 euros is a fair amount of cash for doing nothing. When you think that this is less then the daily transactions of some of the major stores who have opted to use this system, it amounts to 360,000 euros in a year of unearned profits. I could live comfortably on that.
