tomassocroccante

From the New York TImes, 9/12

"Fire in Channel Tunnel Caused Serious Damage"

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/13/wo...tunnel.html?hp

Josser

Queen Anne is looking decidedly unwell.

flanneruk

It's cut the Continent off. Surely that's a good thing, rather than serious?

tomassocroccante

The DAMAGE is serious. (Even at that not the most apt choice of words. "Substantial" might have been good, or "major.&quot

Whether you classify the situation that way is another matter ~ No doubt a windfall for the ferry companies.

Robespierre

<i>Author: tomassocroccante ([email protected])
Date: 09/12/2008, 03:47 pm

No doubt a windfall for the ferry companies.</i>

You mean they've been plying the Channel with excess capacity? That would be pretty inefficient.

I think all the ways of getting across are going to be jammed for the foreseeable future. And anyone coming from the U.S. with plans to move between the UK and continent should factor in all the Europeans who will have queued up first.

tomassocroccante

Nah, I just mean they'll be full, maybe even running extra trips.

&quot;Commuter&quot; Air traffic between UK and France, Belgium etc may be more crowded, too.

Alec

Goods trains may start operating overnight, using the undamaged south tunnel (they are running test trains at the moment), and passenger trains (Eurostar) and Eurotunnel Shuttle may start operating over the weekend, albeit at much reduced frequency.

Robespierre

Is there actually that much excess capacity in the ferry and aviation systems?

It seems to me that the boats and planes are already in more or less continuous use, loading, crossing, unloading, rinse, repeat. I guess they could run them day and night instead of only during &quot;popular&quot; times - but then you get into the need for enough experienced crews, more fuel, bla bla bla.

Has Eurostar done any tests with trains twice as long as usual? I think that's the only way they can get back to anything approaching normal capacity.

Cowboy1968

I was just wondering if all that hysteria is really necessary or realistic.
So far, it looks as if passenger travel will be up and running in a few days.
And, furthermore, I doubt that the Channel tunnel trains count for THAT much of overall UK/Continent travel -- compared with point-to-point London-Paris and London-Brussels travel where it may be a factor.
I doubt that anyone with half a brain would think about taking the train from Edinburgh to Rome or from Barcelona to Cardiff.

tomassocroccante

I didn't note any hysteria!

Alec

Dover- Calais ferries run 24 hours, hourly at night and about every 45 min during the day, during peak period like now. There are also less frequent crossings to Boulogne (Speedferries) and Dunkerque (Norfolk Line). Even at peak crossings, ferries are rarely if ever full. Last time I crossed on an August weekend daytime, it was around 70% full. So there is excess capacity to soak up channel tunnel traffic (perhaps not all goods traffic).
You can't add extra carriages to Eurostar, as the current fleet has the maximum 20 carriages (including two power cars, consisting of two independent half-sets) and 320 metres in length, the longest possible for platform use at Paris Gare du Nord and London St Pancras.

flanneruk

&quot;Capacity&quot; on cross-Channel ferries is a complicated concept.

Their constraint is usually car space, and during the summer their car decks are pretty close to full. But even then they've still got immense amounts of unused space (and lifebelts) for foot passengers.

Sometimes, in the weeks before Christmas, they might get close to running out of passenger space with all the coach parties to the Calais hypermarkets. But until early December, thre's more or less infinite capacity on ferries <b> for foot passengers </b>

The problem, though, is that <b> two-thirds of Tunnel shuttles are for freight </b>. With the Tunnel working at half-capacity for the next few months, and before the fire carrying about half the lorries and cars that cross the Channel, there's going to be a shortage of ferry space for vehicles - probably for the rest of the year.

Economically, keeping those lorries running matters more than weekend jollies for people who can swan off to Paris by plane or by train/ferry anyway. So there'll be pressure on Eurotunnel to restore freight shuttle frequency sooner than Eurostar or car shuttles.

The only thing that's certain is that the northern tunnel's going to be out of action for a good while

chartley

We came back by Shuttle with the car from Calais to Folkestone on the last Saturday of the February half-term, and the place was seething. This was only a day trip for us, but I read later that it was the busiest day of the year for Eurotunnel.

It is amazing how quickly the lorry traffic builds up on the M20 if there is any hold-up with either the Tunnel or the ferries.

alanRow

&lt;&lt;&lt; So far, it looks as if passenger travel will be up and running in a few days. &gt;&gt;&gt;

With, at best, half the number of trains they normally run as they can only use one tunnel and therefore they can't have two direction traffic

Suggest you read up on the effects the last time something like this happened - it was several months before things got back to normal

In the meantime expect the pricing structure for Eurostar to change as they'll be less cheap tickets to buy

Robespierre

Saturday 13 Sept: Eurostar has announced that the passenger service is running at about half capacity today, with 12 trains each way between London and Paris and 6 trains between London and Brussels. London - Disneyland is also running. From BBC:

&quot;Trains are running in one of two tunnels that normally carry traffic. The other remains closed while the French authorities investigate.

Car shuttle services have not resumed, with Eurotunnel giving priority to lorry shuttles and Eurostar.&quot;

flanneruk

The UK motorways, well over a hundred miles away from Dover, have signs up saying &quot;Channel tunnel open only for freight&quot;