thegrandplan2019

Hi Everyone
We are an Australian couple (husband 63 and wife 45) who are planning a four year trip to Europe and the United Kingdom. We are aware of the Shengen rules, we will rotate between Schengen and non Shengen countries each 90 days. We have traveled quite extensively over the last ten years and have spent considerable time driving in Europe.
Our plan takes one of two forms, either we will buy a campervan/motorhome (as small as we can get away with that is self contained with toilet and shower), or base ourselves in one month to six week apartment rentals and explore out from there via trains/buses.
The advice that I’m looking for at this stage is general, I’ve found a few campervan/motorhome sites that assist with lower value vehicles, I’m aware of campgrounds, and restrictions in and around large cities. I guess what I’m looking for is any information that may be really useful in the big picture planning.
This is a long term goal and dream for both of us, all our savings will go toward it, so my biggest question that I need help with, can anyone assist with budgets. Optimally, I’d like to keep it under E100 per day, but regardless the cheaper the better. We wouldn’t be driving great distances each day, wouldn’t be eating out a lot, we’d be going to the big attractions and some museums and art galleries, but not many. We love food, we love slow travel, we love different cultures.
Looking forward to any input from any more experienced travellers out there, thank you, Melissa

PS Hope I haven't left any pertinent information out, please let me know.

ribeirasacra

To purchase a vehicle in any country of Europe you have to be registered to live there.
In the UK you still need a bank account so that the road fund tax can be deducted and you will need an address for the vehicle to be registered at.
How to register a vehicle in the UK.
https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration/overview
This LP information of Schengen agreement may help you understand the complexities of entering, staying and leaving the area.
https://www.lonelyplanet.com/thorntr...his-post-first
How to stay and live in the UK will be found here.
http://uk.angloinfo.com/

Rubicund

"In the UK you still need a bank account so that the road fund tax can be deducted". Not quite true. Whilst you can pay for your road tax a bank account, you can also pay via going into a main Post Office with the accompanying documents. Not all Post Offices do this though, as small sub offices often don't have the facility.

The main problem that I can see with buying an older vehicle is the potential for things to go wrong with it and the subsequent cost of repair, plus the time off the road. Where do you stay/sleep while it's in a garage? You won't get insurance without a permanent address either.

I would have thought that the best way is to stay in apartments and move as you are able. Holiday lets will be much more expensive than renting a residential apartment, but will probably require longer time periods. This may cause problems with keeping costs down when you have to move because of Schengen requirements. Bear in mind that you won't need a Visa to stay in the UK for up to 6 months, but will need one for a longer stay.

thegrandplan2019

Thanks ribeirasacra, our plan is for to use a company that handles the registration of the vehicle etc, like www.bwcampers.com or www.dutchcampervans.com just as examples.
With regard to Schengen we would basically plan on 90 days in Europe then 90 days in the UK, or possibly fly to either North or South America if we could stretch to it.
Our aim is the campervan/motorhome so as to keep the daily cost as low as possible to extend the trip as long as possible.

Rubicund

"but will probably require longer time periods". Sorry, meant to say "but won't probably require longer time periods".

thegrandplan2019

Thanks Rubicund, this is what I'm looking for, I really need to work out which option will cost less long term.
So, purchase/maintenance/registration/insurance of motorhome plus fuel, or apartments for 4-6 weeks in Europe/United Kingdom each 90 Days, and trains/buses to see the things we want to see. I figure that we'd want to move every 4-6 weeks to branch out and see different areas and countries.

annhig

whether you are looking at apartments or a camper [and if I were going to be living in a van for 4 years I'd want it to be a big one] you need to look at where you want to be when.

for example, unless you are very keen on the sun [which coming from OZ I suppose you might be] you'd probably want to steer clear of southern Spain in August. similarly you probably wouldn't want to spend much time in cold wet England in December and Jan though a stay in somewhere like Vienna with its christmas Markets might be nice.

Which brings me to another subject - are there any special sporting/cultural events that you want to see during that time?

Sounds like a great trip in the making, but the organisation could be quite difficult!

sheila

I'd so love to do this.

I could live for less than €100 a day here, but then, there are lots of ways of saving money here, like not using campgrounds, but wild camping. Obvs. don't eat out if you can buy food in supermarkets/markets.

You don't, incidentally, have to be resident somewhere to own a vehicle. I won a car in France, and don't live there. Can't speak for anywhere else, but that's one country where it's not true. I don't think it's true in the UK either, but I've never investigated.

ribeirasacra

I could have sworn I read the UK had changed the road tax system. But double checking after the comment I stand corrected. Road tax is no longer transferable when you do purchase a vehicle. So you do have to renew it. There is no disc to display.

Those hire rates for your time in Schengen area is a lot.

nytraveler

Not sure about the details of purchase/registration/insurance but there is no way that I wold want to live in a camper for 4 years - esp in the worst of summer heat or winter cold. If you live in apts instead and take public transit the trip would be much more comfortable.

Have you thought about health insurance? I don't believe you will be covered by EU governments and would need to purchase long-term private insurance.

thursdaysd

You might see whether you qualify for a long stay visa for one of the Schengen countries, which would simplify your planning. Maybe Spain?

Suggest spending some time on this site:

http://www.soultravelers3.com

Especially the beginning, where they rented a camper van. They were traveling on much less than you are thinking about.

kerouac

If you're going to be spending most of your time on the continent, you may prefer to have a vehicle with the steering wheel on the left.

janisj

I'd maybe try to apply for a Schengen visa. Yes you are 'allowed' <i>up to</i> 90 days in a 180 day period. But you are not guaranteed that (nor are you 'guaranteed 6 months in the UK -- that is simply the limit). It is on a case by case basis. If a border agent sees you entering Schengen over and over again they could very well flag you and deny entry.

manouche

Don't know if a 4 yr visa is even available, but you should look into a long-term visa instead of having to move around every 90 days. Insurance is required for visas. You'll have to establish residency including opening bank accounts in at least one of the countrys you plan to visit. It's not easy to just come and go any more given the general concern about immigrants.

I would be more concerned about where you would park this mobile home. You'd be spending most of your time on the outskirts of any major city since there's almost zero available central parking for anything this size. Maybe best to rent apts for 3 to 6 months at the time and rent a car or camper car when you want to go exploring for awhile. Camping cars are not very secure and I wouldn't want to pack 4 years worth of valuable stuff in there.

I think it's a nice idea but you should spend much more time plowing through the necessary legal paperwork before you go much further. Wonder why you decided on 4 years? Maybe try one year first - you could get a lot of travel done during one year without ending up with a lot of headaches.

RM67

I'm wondering if you might have issues with insurance for the vehicle. I imagine it will have to have a 'home' location for insurance purposes and you will have to spend a certain amount of time in that particular country. I'm by no means certain about this but I think its definitely something you should look into sooner rather than later.

hetismij2

If you go the camper van route then you can stay at campsites in Europe outside of certain peak times for between €12 and €18 a night. Buy one of the guide books which include a camping card, either Acsi, or Camping Key, to ensure the discount. Camper Key is compulsory for Scandinavia.

You can also stay at special camper stops, for a few euros, or even for free. Sometimes they are little more than a car park, but other times offer electricity, dump, water, even toilets and showers. I suggest you mix camper stops with campsites and use those showers, rather than the one in the camper.
Some countries allow wild camping, but that requires some precautions to ensure your safety, particularly in France.

Diesel campers do about 9-10km to the litre. Fuel prices vary per country, but in France last week we paid about €1.09/litre. In Luxembourg it was only €0.90/l.

Many campsites offer a bread service, so you can get fresh bread daily for around a euro. Selfcatering lowers the costs of eating considerably, but camper stops are often near towns so you can eat out too. Some camper stops are at vineyards, restaurants, farms etc, and you can stay for free in return for a small purchase. France Passion is the best known organisation, but many countries have something similar.

Have a look at campercontact.com for some, but by no means all camper stops in Europe.
Consider a couple of bikes too, so you don't have to pack up the camper every time you want to visit somewhere.

What will you do with the camper during the three months away from Schengen?

thegrandplan2019

Wow guys, thanks for the replies. I'll try and respond to everyones input below.

Annhig, yes, we'll definately plan for the warmer countries in winter and the colder ones in Summer months, and you are correct, being from Australia, we do love the hot weather and are not bothered by it. In terms of the space, we'd like to stay as small as possible, we do it here in weekend trips in our camper and longer road trips. Four years is a long time though, we'll just have to play that bit by ear, as I don't think we can afford a larger motorhome, and we also don't want to be restricted too much on where we can go. No real wish list for sporting/cultural activities, very much open to suggestions, we of course want to do all the big sights as well as discovering out of the way ones - But mainly go with the flow (in a planned fashion lol).

Sheila, yes it's going to be great, a plan we've had for a long time. I'm pretty sure the issue is, particularly in the UK, that you have to have an address to register the vehicle to, this is why my research has suggested having to use a third party company. I'm still looking into it, but it appears there is one company that Australians can use to insure vehicles that they own overseas. Lots of information, taking my time trying to put all the bits together.

Sheila, which country are you in? Glad to hear you can do it E100 per day, makes it feel achievable for us.

Ribeirasacra, also yes, the rates for hiring a motorhome are prohibitive if you are there for a long period. Even with the high fuel costs etc, long term it does seem cheaper to compromise on space and luxury by purchasing.

nytraveler, Thanks, we know we definately need to make sure our health insurance is covered from Australia before we leave.

Wow Thursdayd, that's a great resource that site, will make my way through their journey, I"ve started reading through this site (www.emmashouseinportugal.com ) to find out about the Spain thing, because yes that would be an optimal situation.

Does anyone out there have any more information on the long term visa for retirement in Spain or Portugal for Australians? Any clues on Cost of living in those countries?

Kerouac, we will definately be going with a LHD vehicle if we pursue the camper/motorhome path.

Thanks Janisj, we will keep that in mind, my research has indicated that as long as we can show we are self supporting.

Thanks Manouche, will take your comments on board. Four years is what we feel we can afford, thus the length, and yes we will be doing a lot of research, our take off date is 1 May 2019

We do like the idea of rotating through rental apartments and a motorhome in between. However, we would then have to rent the vehicle, which pushes the price out of our range.

Insurance is a key issue RM67, pretty much one of the deciding factors. If it's too high a cost it then makes the camper/motorhome option undoable.

Great info hetismij2, this is invaluable information and I love that website. We thinks with the three months away from Schengen, we will explore the UK first, then maybe over to North America.

Well... I've got lots more reading to do from all these tips. Please keep them coming, and thank you.

Melissa

northie

A difficulty you will probably encounter is returning to UK from the Schengen - I doubt that you would have a return ticket to Oz 3 or 4 years out. We were drilled for quite a while when returning to UK from Belgium by the UK immigration . I foolishly was unable to produce the return ticket to Australia .(I had left it with our friends for safe keeping) We were told that we would probably want to use their health system, sponge off the state,we were retired (he said) and after all Australian immigration was stricter -which had nothing to do with them or us anyway. I remained very calm , answering all the questions, including who owned the flat we were going to, reassuring them that I had my own consultancy even though my husband was retired. we were allowed in knowing that we had to leave UK in10 days.
DH and I are in our early 70s .

thegrandplan2019

northie, thanks, hadn't thought of that angle in particular, and it's very relevant. One of us will probably have to come home once a year anyway for logistical reasons, so I guess that is something and a cost we definately have to build in to our plans and budget.

janisj

Thanks Janisj, we will keep that in mind, my research has indicated that as long as we can show we are self supporting.

Like I said - it is a case by case decision. Per northie's post -- I've met them and they are the least 'we here to sponge off the system and over stay' looking people you could imagine. And even they were grilled.

I live in the States and take 2 to 4 leisure trips to the UK each year plus someplace in Schengen most years -- I'm middle aged, harmless looking, always have a return ticket, have <i>plenty</i> of where-with-all, and usually only stay 1-3 weeks at a time - and about 1/3 of my visits I'm grilled about my plans. They could decide to deny me entry at any time.

Last Spring I was staying one night in London before taking the Eurostar on to Belgium (returning to London a week later). The border agent at LHR actually wrote in my passport that I only had permission to stay 48 hours in the UK.

So nothing is guaranteed. Especially if they think you are trying to live in Europe and might be working . . .