JTPC

My husband and I are in the middle of planning a three month trip/honeymoon, concentrated mostly in Italy and France. We have about four days that we're unsure where to go and was hoping to get some guidance. I'll provide the list of where we'll be before and after so help put it in context geographically. We've been thinking about Lucca, Grosetto, Livorno or Ancona but truly we're open to just about anything if it makes sense logistically and won't be outrageously expensive from a travel standpoint.

Venice (2 nights)
Bologna (7 nights)
Florence (5 nights)
?????? (4 nights)
Countryside Tuscany- Asciano (7 nights)
Positano (4 nights)
Rome (7 nights)

From there we fly to Barcelona and then we begin to make our way up from the south of France to Paris. We will then travel from Paris to Piedmont and finish our trip in Piedmont in early November for the truffle festivals.

For whatever it's worth he's a chef, I'm a sommelier and we'll begin our trip the first of September and end mid November. We would so appreciate any input. Thanks!!

sandralist

As a sommelier, you might enjoy heading to the SuperTuscan wine area in the Maremma (closer to Livorno than Grosseto.

http://www.cellartours.com/italy/ita...y-maremma.html

Unless you are committed students of Italian urbanism or WW2 history in addition to being chefs and sommeliers, you probably don't want Ancona, Grosseto or Livorno. I think Lucca wouldn't give you all that much variety, and it is probably one of the weakest areas of Tuscany for food and wine. Heading to Maremma will give you some seafood and some off the beaten track adventures. If it is hot, there are sea breezes too. You should be able to find real bargains when it comes to lodgings.

Check the timing for the truffle festivals in Piemonte. They may be earlier than you think. Also be aware that many of them are exceptionally touristy and have truffles that are inferior than what you would find in the better eateries in Piemonte.

You didn't ask about Spain, but for food and wine, from Barcelona I would go north through Rioja country to San Sebastian, then up through the French Basque country to Bordeaux, and from there to Paris.

Dayle

JTPC,

Should we assume you are beginning in France in Sept and you will be in Italy most of Oct?

I was going to suggest the Ligurian Coast, but not sure it's the best choice for October.

Instead, how about Umbria? I really enjoyed the towns in Umbria that I visited, Gubbio, Deruta, Todi, Spello, Montefalco, Assisi, Orvieto. My overall impression of Umbria was that it's just as beautiful as Tuscany, but a little less touristed. I would like to go back to visit the Piano Grande (do I have the area name correct, Fodorites?), Norcia, Perugia.

Since you are in the food and wine industries I understand the 7 days in Bologna. Do you have enough interest in the Renaissance for 5 full days in Florence? Just wondering, because I think you really, really need one more day in Venice! 2 is just not enough.

Lucky you to have such a wonderful long trip for your honeymoon. Congratulations and buon viaggio!

annhig

sounds like a fabulous trip, JTPC and congrats on your wedding.

I can endorse Sandralist's recommendation of the Maremma - Pitigliano, & Massa Maritima in particular are gorgeous places with the same attractions of many other better known places but with far fewer people.

I also agree that you should give yourselves another day in Venice; even without jetlag, you need a minimum of a day to see the major sights of Venice itself, and another to take a trip on the lagoon.

hope you have a wonderful time!

sandralist

Hi again,

I wanted to point out that the only reason I gave you the commercial link that I did was that it offered a fairly good description of the SuperTuscan wine area, and identified its principal towns (Bolgheri, Castagneto Carducci, and Suvereto). I wasn't advocating or endorsing the tour company.

Here are some other links about the wine production areas and the Etruscan coast

http://www.discovertuscany.com/the-e.../bolgheri.html

http://www.tuscany-charming.it/en/pl...uscancoast.asp

kybourbon

Most people would think you are cutting Venice short.

If you want to explore wines in Tuscany, instead of Asciano, I would have selected some time a bit north of Asciano in the Chianti region (easy to visit a couple of other wine areas from there besides Chianti - San G. Vernaccia and perhaps some super Tuscans) and somewhere in southern Tuscany for a few days (Brunellos in Montalcino and the Vino Nobile in the Montepulciano)and Pienza for the various Pecorino cheeses. While you can visit most from Asciano, it will be a lot of driving on twisty roads. It will be dark early at the times you will be there.

JTPC

Thank you for the replies, I will try and answer the questions and address some confusions...

First of all, it sounds like Maremma is definitely a great area to explore, so I appreciate the resounding consistency about that. While stylistically Super Tuscan's don't tend to be my thing, it seems that this region offers nice diversity from other places we are visiting. The Ligurian coast was definitely on the list of places to check out, but it seems like backtracking from Florence to go back up there and then down to Asciano. Unless we do Ligurian coast, then Florence and then Asciano? What are your thoughts between Ligurian coast and Maremma?

We will be beginning our trip in northeast Italy Sept 1(flying direct into Venice from New York), we will then make our way south to Rome and fly from Rome to Barcelona (getting there early-mid October). We will then work our way up France and end with a journey from Paris to Piedmont in early November and then fly home from Milan. We've chosen to do this because the part of the trip we most want to have in great weather is Italy. We know that by the time we hit parts of France it'll be chillier, damper and darker early-- that's ok.

We're staying in Asciano because there is a winemaker there who I know and who is lovely and who we want to stay with. It also seems like a fairly central location for day trips. We'll be staying here: http://www.poderealberese.it/

We will do our best to steer clear of the touristy truffle festivals! From what I read we should be able to catch the tail end of them. The other option was starting in Piedmont but early September is definitely way too early for that.

Venice was actually not a top priority for the trip. We want to see it and know we are likely not doing it justice in this short period of time. But more than anything, we just want to spend a day wandering there. Additionally, it is proving to be just so expensive and more days there is just more of our budget than we want to allocate.

Our full itinerary, but the second half being less planned at this point than the first is:
Venice
Bologna (with day trips, Parma, Ravenna, etc)
Florence
???
Asciano
Positano
Rome
Barcelona
Provence
Lyon
Burgundy
Paris
Piedmont
Milan

We were considering making our way to Northwest Spain and then up through Bordeaux, but we're having trouble working that into the itinerary. We definitely want to hit Provence, Lyon & Burgundy. But we're open to suggestions of how to do so for sure!

Thank you for all the thoughtful suggestions, it's so appreciated.

JTPC

(As a side note, we won't hit daylight savings until we're almost in Paris; at which point I'm slightly less concerned about those early sunsets!)

sandralist

My thoughts about Liguria vs. Maremma is that it is only worth it if you really want pesto, farinata, anchovies and/or mussels. I'm seriousl. For me, it might be reason enough to go (I'm serious about that too!) but fitting it in would be a dogleg from everywhere else you are going, and since you are already going to the Amalfi coast, I don't think another spectacular coastline devoted to holidaymaking would be as interesting as poking around the Etruscan coast.

That said, if you were in the mood to road trip a bit by train, and you really wanted that pesto, et al, you could leave Bologna and spend one or two nights in Parma, and then leave Parma and spend two or 3 nights in Portovenere or Lerici or even somewhere around le Cinque Terre. Then you could go to take a train to Florence, and then Asciano (which is a great place to stay if you want to see what I think is the most beautiful scenery in the Tuscan wine country, le Crete Sinese).

If you definitely want to go through Provence, Lyon and Burgundy, then the laws of physics mean you can't be in Rioja land, the Basque country and Bordeaux -- and I don't think you have more days to squeeze into or out of your trip, so you'll just have to come back to Spain on your next trip to Italy.

sandralist

PS: If you really want interesting pesto, then go from Bologna to Pontremoli by train and spend the night there to have dinner. Not only can you get delicious pesto there, you can get served on testaroli, and that is special. Pontremoli is also quite a sweet town hardly anybody knows about but is lovely to visit. From there it is easy to drop down to the Ligurian seaside for the mussels, anchovies etc., or you can even keep going by train from there to the Bolgheri area if you don't mind the extra time on the train.

JTPC

Sandralist... I'm curious to know your thoughts; would you bypass Provence and shave some time off Lyon & Burgundy (currently planning 5 nights in each of the three) to fit in Rioja, San Sebastian and Bordeaux? Then maybe do Barcelona, Rioja, San Sebastian, Bordeaux, pick up in Lyon and continue on from there?

kybourbon

From your link, you are not actually in the town of Asciano. You will need a car unless your friend will be transporting you places every day.

sandralist

JTPC,

That would be really tough decision for me! Truth is, the place I would cut is Barcelona, but that is just my feelings about Barcelona which certainly don't apply to other people, maybe in particular chefs. It can be self defeating to move too quickly through food and wine areas if you feel like you can never take a break from eating a lot of food as you pass through places. Spend 5 days in an area and you can skip some meals without regret. And then there are cultural considerations about what you are really in the mood to see and do on this trip -- Provence is a much different place than the Basque region of Spain -- plus it's a honeymoon! Rioja may be my favorite wine, and the Basque country my favorite eating destination, so that pulls me there. But the weather is going to start getting rough around there as autumn progresses. Provence might be nicer, and in probably doesn't really matter in Burgundy. (Cooler weather would actually help with all that rich food.)

If you don't make it that part of Spain in this trip, maybe next vacation can be a cheap one through northern Portugal, Galicia, Asturias etc and take in parts of the Pais Vascos and Rioja country in that trip, in a nicer weather period like early September.

JTPC

@kybourbon we definitely plan to have a car for that leg of our trip. We very much wanted to stay countryside when we did that part of Tuscany.

@sandralist I too could skip Barcelona but my husband really wants to go. It's an amazingly cheap flight from Rome so, off we go! And I agree; while were both in the restaurant business the purpose of the entire trip isn't just good and wine. It's the beauty of places, history, culture, meeting people, all of it. And good food and wine too! Something about Provence just speaks to me (not that I've been). In planning this trip we've already ended up planning out next three Europe trips. 1) Spain/Portugal, 2) Netherlands/Germany/Prague 3) turkey/Greece. Staring at a map is dangerous!

DRJ

Easy. Add all those days to Venice.