central Europe road trip
 

Hi !
We are planing a road trip in central Europe next summer (30-40 night between july 1 and august 20) . We are 2 adults and 2 teens and we are from Montréal.
It would be our sith trip in Europe with kids. We have seen : France, Spain, Italy, Germany, Portugal, Slovenia and Croatia. We also have seen Belgium, Netherlands, Poland and Czech Republic in 2004 and 2006 before having kids.

The plan for now (flight arrival can change) Is
- Arrival in Venice (for now it:s the cheapest we can find from Montreal). We already seen Venice twice so dont feel the need to go back again. And rent a car. From there we would do:
- maybe one -two night stop in the DOlomites which we already seen
- Austria (Mountains, Hallstta, Vienna...we already seen Slazbourg) for around one week.
- Krakow (that we already seen in 2006, but want to go back with the teens) for 3-4 nights
- Southern Poland for mountains (or northern Slovakia) 3-4 nights
- Slovakia (Maybe we would do Bratislava from Vienna) 5-6 nights
- Budapest and Hungary for 6-7 nights
- Travel back to Venice .

Of course we woul need to make our plan more precise and plan daily stop, but what do you think about that plan ?

Munich would seem to be a better arrival choice given what you want to see.

Take a look at my Poland trip reports which covers Krakow, a car trip through SE Poland, and Krakow.

https://www.fodors.com/community/eur...2012-a-951579/

https://www.fodors.com/community/eur...2012-a-953323/

https://www.fodors.com/community/eur...2012-a-949560/

Of course Munich would be better, but it’s 500$ more per ticket

Keep your options open and search for tickets in January/February for summer 2025. Re-reading your itinerary, Vienna might be a better hub.

You're going all the way to Poland for mountains? The ones in Italy,Switzerland, Austria,Slovenia etc aren't enough?

You haven't really given any idea about interests. Right now you're just driving around looking at mountains. Is that your goal?

I wonder how much basic research you've done this time, tostaky. I know that very generous Fodorites have spent a LOT of time over the years giving you input -- only to find that you didn't realize how expensive a destination would be, or how long the flights, or how otherwise unsuited to your needs. I sincerely hope that you have actually checked into some of those things this time!

true that last year my mind changed a couple of time and I’m sorry for that. We have around 15 000 euros for this summer so I guess It will be fine.

We would like to make flight reservation as early as possible, that way we would be able to get more options for our airbnb.

No, we are going in Poland for Krakow (and Auschwitz and Wieliczka salt mine), but since we love mountains and that we also want to go in Slovakia we would like to take some time in the Tatras.
our goal is always the same in our european trips. Try to make a mix of vibrant cities, quaint villages and naural wonders. We are history fan (well I am !) , foodies and craft beer lovers. Our teens are not into beaches, but they sometimes like to take a small swim, so access to a lake here and there is soemthing we also looking for.

The good thing is, you have time to plan and work out logistics. I would suggest tracking flights on Google flights either an open jaw or roundtrip from cities that are CLOSER to where you want to go and be. Tracking flights will show you fluctuations in price and since you are not going until next summer, you will see that they change often, routes may even change too. Venice may be cheaper "now," but may not be later when you actually book the tickets.

Flying roundtrip into Venice does nothing to help you here. It is farther away from where you are planning, which means you need to spend time and money getting to where you want to go - even though you are planning this to be a road trip, you still should NOT drive upon landing as you will be crossing multiple time zones and should wait at least 24 hours upon landing to begin the road portion. This will mean either lodging in the Venice area or a train trip to your actual planned starting point - those "savings" you just got, just went out the window.

I have been to Krakow and Malapolska, including Zakopane and Mala Fatra National Park on the Slovakian side. It's a different culture with different mountains, and it seems a bit bizarre to me to say that traveling there is inferior to Switzerland, etc. The time I spent there is very precious to me.

I also find some of the other places you mention wildly expensive. A family of four would spend a ton more money in those places.

For the OP, I took in a lot of sites with traditional crafts including the unique wooden architecture, the smokehouses producing oszypek and mountain huts and teahouses serving fresh kielbasa and kompot. I like the food better than in Switzerland.

Zakopane, an easy drive from Krakow is at the base of the Tatra Mountains.

The cost of renting a car and driving half way across Europe will be the biggest blow to the budget.

well we would do it on foot but our guess is that it wouldn’t be as much pratical than by car.

Personally, I think you're trying to do too much in the time you have. Lots of time driving, little time to actually see or experience the places you will be glancing from your windows.

PLEASE do not try to drive within the first 24 or 36 hours of landing. Flying after crossing multiple time zones is MUCH more dangerous than most people realize. You will be putting yourselves and everyone else on the road in danger.

You're planning a 30-40 day trip where much of your current plan has you in cities quite a bit, too. While I know you want the car for the countryside - that is perfectly fine. But on days you are going to be in a city, having a car in some car park while you may explore a town or city adds to the overall expense - especially when it is not being used it is just racking up days and expense. More so if you have to pay for parking...

With the amount of times you have mentioned how expensive things are and what is "cheapest," you also have not throught through the details where you are planning on spending money unnecessarily. Car rental rates, along with everything else has skyrocketed in post-Covid.

Just food for thought... sometimes point to point train tickets make sense with a car supplement depending on other plans (i.e. mountains and such).

It's not just the car rental. There is fuel. In some countries tolls. Or the need to buy a vignette. You may end up paying for parking.

Gasoline in Italy right now is about €1.80 per litre self service. Diesel is less but not much less. A R/T Venice to Krakow with a highly fuel efficient car is going to likely cost €200 just in fuel. But four people plus luggage you'll want something bigger. Add 50%? I guess. Just for the fuel.

NB that's driving direct not making a bunch of detours. You might spend more in fuel than the train tickets.

I'm not sure that's true. I just came back from a driving trip and I think lodging in the Swiss and Italian Alps for four people in Summer could easily top car rental as an expense.

" We are history fan (well I am !) , foodies and craft beer lovers"

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We never drive after a long flight, dont worry. It seems to be too much, and we will have to refine our itinerary, but a 3000km road trip over 35 days it's fine for us.

maybe train tickets could cost a bit ledd, but I dont see it could cost a lot less since we need to pây for 4 persons. And a car gives us a lot more flexibility between cities. But yes having a car in big cities could a lot hassle. We would take a look (when we have our flights) of making 2 rentals and combining them with train/bus if it can help. We dont need a big car, we travel light (4 carry on and 2 small back pack).

We know that most a the tim a car in big cities is an hassle. Once we got our flights secured we woulld look at all our options. We also have to take in account that leaving the car in a different coutries would mean a big fee most of the time. We can also stay outside Karkow and vist the city on day trip(s) with the car since we also want to go outside to Auschwitz, and Wieliczka. Money is alway an object for almost every travellers. We have an ok amount for that trip (I guess) but yes if we could avoid unnecessary expenses....

Bus travel would probably be cheaper than a car rental, especially if the tickets are purchased a couple of months in advance; here's an example:

https://www.rome2rio.com/map/Vienna/Krak%C3%B3w#trips

of course it would be cheaper, it could be doable for some parts but we still need/want to have a car for some parts of our trip. And car give us freedom of travel and we like it very much.

No doubt that there is a flexibility in having a car, but that is also limited by the fact that to work within a set budget you will have to have housing reservations made weeks if not months in advance to lock in an acceptable price. That puts a damper on the flexibility of years past when one could travel without reservations and still find acceptable housing.

A daily rental, while more expensive on a per day basis than a long term rental, might still be a better solution. You can rent a smaller car (no need larger luggage space) and it should include any environmental vignette appropriate to the locality.

One other thing I would consider adding to the OP's itinerary, you might consider going to see the Eagles Nest castles north of Krakow all the way to Czestochowa where there is an impressive monastery, Jasna Gora, a majestic sight. Of all the wooden architecture south of Krakow to the mountains, the church at Debno is unspeakably touching and humble. It brought me to tears. The town of Tarnow has a gorgeous main square with a dark past. The town was 45% Jewish before the war, and it became a site of devastating atrocity. it also has an ethnographic museum with an interesting array of roma caravans.

A lot of folks seem to want to talk the OP out of a car, but as someone who has done a lot of traveling with four, including kids through their high school years, I see the flexibility of car travel as being important for the kind of trip envisioned by the OP.

Plus, this is not the OP's first go-round, so it's condescending to tell the OP what is obvious, like bus travel is cheaper.

Thanks a lot Shelemm !
The idea of the eagle nest and Tarnow are good ones. Maybe we could do it as daytrip from Karkow and use the car we will have.

And thanks also for putting some things in perspective !

Costs aside, bus travel can offer irreplaceable opportunities to observe, and even engage with, the people who live in an area. Some of my most memorable travel moments have come from just such experiences. I think Micheal's suggestion that you consider bus travel well worth considering. JMO.

Kja: to be honest, the flexibility of the car is way more important to us than having some small talk with strangers ! We dont reject bus/train if it suits our needs but not for that aspect.

I'm on your side with respect to renting a car.

That written, your itinerary is, pardon my French, a hot mess. Doing a loop from Venice to Hallstatt to Poland to Hungary and back to Venice means you will likely "cut through" the Czech Republic and Slovenia, but if you've "seen them before," why are you not tailoring your holiday to those places you haven't seen?

I personally could take all 30 days in Italy or Austria alone; both countries have enough to offer to make the experience less complicated and with enough variety to suit everyone.

Also, you want to travel in the summer. Not all of Central Europe is air-conditioned; much of Europe will also be on holiday; and you may need to account for the occasional bank holiday.

Everyone travels differently, of course, but this itinerary sounds so much like the lofty plans of friends and family who would visit when we lived in Austria and after the first couple of days would discover that scaling down was a lot more enjoyable for everyone. Really take the time to research what everyone wants to do and map the way forward from there.

fourfortravel: thanks for the answer. Of course our itinerary could get some refining (and it will !). Like i've said Venice is only for now because it's save us 2000$ on flights, We think it woth a 7-8 hours drive if prices stays !
We already been in Italy twice, yes we could go back only in Italy, but dont feel the need to do so (beside maybe one or two stops).

In 35 days We think something like this https://maps.app.goo.gl/9Z7c2ibsDU3W7Qj49 is doable.

Would it be enjoyable for everyone ? I guess not, but we are kind of seasonned travellers and we know our pace. Having that said every ideas are very welcomed !

I am sure you already know what open jaw tickets are, and are keeping your eye on a number of possible routes.

If you do end up arriving in Venice, which you don’t want to see, consider the train. A previous poster, sorry forgot name, travelled from Venice to Munich on a very scenic route that you can also take, with one change at Verona IIRC, as far as Innsbruck. Relax in the Austrian Alps and proceed from there by your choice of transportation.

https://www.seat61.com/trains-and-ro...city-train.htm

If you rent a car in Italy you cannot rent at the Basic rate otherwise offered in the EU. Check rates by going through the process of renting a car at Autoeurope.com. In addition, for the time that you will have the car, a lease might be better, and again, that can be checked by going through the lease process on Autoeurope.com.

Yes we know what an open jaw ticket is and we have done it in the past. It's more complicated when a car is involve because returning the car in another country mean, most of the time, an hefty fee but yes it's something we would look into.

Thanks for the idea. We have use Autoeurope 3-4 times in the pass with freat results. We also have done a lease in our last trip. geting a brand new car with full insurance coverage was great but a bit more pricey. The main problem with leasing is that it's vaibles only in a limited number of destinations.

Hi Again !
Venice still the best deal/price from Montréal.
Yul-Vce is 1033$
Yul Vienna (or Munich, Budapest or Krakow) is between 1500-1600.
Since we are 4 it means 2000$ more.

What we could do:
Arrive in Venice. Stay one night in Venice Mestre (cheaper than Venice), may be drop our lugage and do a small daytrip in venice, have a meal, and go back to our hotel in mestre.
9:56 in the morning, take the direct train to Vienna. It would cost us 120$ for the whole family. That way we would have 4-6 nights in Vienna without a car. Rent a car at the end of our Vienna stay.
For the return we would do the opposite. Drop the car in Vienna. Take the 12:24 train to Venice (arrival at 20:00). Sleep in Venice Mestre and take our flight back to Montreal next day.

Not ideal, but a lot less expensive that way.

What do you think ?

Six nights off your car rental will save a bundle right there. You might price hotels in Mestre and the extra train tickets before committing to a Venice round trip — open jaw with return from Vienna or from your last destination might work out better… though oh no, the international drop off fee might be a killer if you return from outside Austria. But still, If you’re ending with more city time, shaving more days off the rental might compensate.

Glad it’s your spreadsheet headache and not mine!

I am quite sure you’ll all enjoy that train journey.

https://www.seat61.com/trains-and-ro...e-by-train.htm

Hôtels in Mestre is not that much a factor singe we have to sleep somewhere anyways. Like I’ve said train cost 90 euros one way (so 180 euros return) for the whole family.

It wont be an easy to plan but it’s part of the fun !