We all have different needs while traveling. One of mine is to get away from telephones--including friends and colleagues.

I'm fortunate to have a job that I can just walk away from for 2 or 3 weeks without checking in at all; and not having any sick relatives (at the moment at least) or youngsters to check on when I'm away.

There's no use arguing about what is "convenient" and what is "cheap" since those definitions will always vary somewhat from one person to another.

I agree that one does not necessrily HAVE to have a cellphone in Europe just as one doesn't necessarily HAVE to have a laptop, an I-Pod, a PDA, a GPS, etc.

there are other ways to reach someone by phone in a country than using a cellphone mjust as there are ways to make notes without using a laptop, etc.

The "problem" seems to be that once you have used these methods you find that doing so is "more convenient" or "easier" or whatever you wish to call it.

After having used a GPS in my rental car in the Cotswolds last month I am certainly going to take it with me for my France car rental in Lot-et-Garoone next year even though I already have purchased excellent local road maps.

Is the GPS necessary? No. is it convenient? Yes. Is it WORTH IT? To me, yes. is it more expensive than just buying maps? Yes. Do i think everyone should do it? Not unless they want to.

As to the individual cited in the OP: a most unfortunate situation but hopefully a learning one.

I also have mobal service and I'm very happy with it. The per minute rate is high but the overall convenience and other advantages outweigh the obvious price disadvantage.
When I travel to Europe the mobile phone is for emergencies/important stuff only. If its a business call the company is going to reimburse me anyway. Personal calls are very short, usually less than 5 minutes per call and maybe three of these per week. I also have a permanent phone number. I don't have to try to figure out the best deal on a sim card or buy an expensive unlocked phone. The phone has always worked for me, no muss, no fuss, convenient and reliable.
If you're not me, you may prefer to do something different.

Yes, we all have so many options of types of equipment to travel with. New technology all the time!

We can each pick and choose what suits us best for each trip.

In my previous post, I said that both the French SIM card and the un-used minutes have expiration dates. The minutes expire in 15, 30, 60 day increments, depending on how many minutes you buy. I think the longest is 120 days. The SIM card expires 6 months after the last minute "re-charge".

That means, you can't use the same SIM card from one year to the next if you go to France only once a year. You could buy more re-charges that you never plan to use - but that just adds to the cost of the entire deal.

This is what I deciphered from all the material we received when we purchased the SFR SIM card (my wife speaks & reads French).

Doing the math, the France SIM Card cost is 24E. Our Cingular SIM card/service charges us about 1E per minute for incoming & outgoing calls (You can purchase another "service" from Cingular that reduces this cost a bit - but we didn't do that). The French SIM card calls are .55E per min for outgoing & free for incoming. If you do the math, the breakeven point is about 53 minutes - so if you call 53 mins or more, the French SIM card is the least expensive. You might have some incoming calls - so depending on how many you have (we only had about 4 in our 4 weeks in France), this breakeven point would be less. I also think XYZs statement about the rounding is correct - so the breakeven would be less - perhaps 40 mins or so. There are other hidden "costs" to using a French SIM card. We had to call the parents and tell them what the French phone number was. We also called our Cingular voice mail to see if anyone tried to call us on the Cingular service - which was "not-in-service" while the French SIM card was installed.

Calling the US is dirt cheap & so is calling within France using a phone card in both situations. Therefore, when we called our parents to "check in" (always a 15 min or so call) we used a land line & phone card. We had no trouble finding phone booths on the road.

We like the convenience of a cell phone, but we don't make enough calls in Europe to make the cost of purchasing a French SIM card worthwhile - we called less than 40 mins - so we used the Cingular card when the French SIM minutes were used up - we did not re-charge the card.

Does anyone else know if a "deal" that is better (cost plus convenience) than what I purchased from SFR? I'm certainly not an expert on cell phones in Europe - this was our first experience with a French SIM card.

Stu Dudley

I've given this suggestion before....

French sim rates are indeed very high and the short shelf life periods are a problem but...

I go with an international sim issued by United Mobile (www.united-mobile.com)....it gives the free receiving throughout all of Western, Central and Eastern Europe west of Russia....calling out is not dirt cheap, just relatively cheap but more on that later. The card costs with shipping to the USA something like $50 (you can denominate in US dollars, euro or sterling).

You couple this with an account with callbackworld (www.callbackworld.com)...this coupling allows you to call the USA and within Europe for rates as low as 14¢/minute billed in 6 second increments not raised to the next highest minute...it takes a little to get used to using it with united mobile sims. Now callbackworld will also give you for free a US toll free number which will work with a pin...you give that number and the pin to people you wish to call you...they don't pay to call the number and you pay 14¢/minute again billed in 6 second increments....it most assuredly works in France...I use it all the time.

This sim has a requirement of one billing event every nine months...simple send out a text every nine months which cost something like $0.50...when I bought the card it cost me €29 (prices have risen a little bit)...it came with €10 worth of call time...three years later, I still have something like €8 of call time left..I receive on it, I make calls on it using callbackworld and to me it is a far better solution than worrying about calling cards which yes are a little cheaper but I have the mobile with me 24/7 and people can reach me 24/7...I get voicemail and like I say the simple maintenance is one text message every 8 1/2 months if you don't travel to Europe (US rates are very high and it is not advised you use it in the USA)...

More info? Go to the forums on the international pages of www.prepaidgsm.net....

XYZ1123

Thanks - you've been very helpful

I still have the SFR SIM card. Do you happen to know if I can use this SIM card with the callbackworld account???. I might be able to find the answer on the various links you provided, but I though I would ask you - before this thread gets too stale & dies.

Also, on a similar thread last Aug, someone stated that a person could call the Phone card number (with real cheap rates to the US) from a Cell Phone. We tried this with both our FSR and Cingular SIM cards and we could not access the phone card number. Have you tried to call a phone card access number from your cell phone & succeeded???

Stu Sudley

Oops - I spelled my own name wrong.

Stu Dudley

Yes you can use callbackworld with a French sim but because of high termination fees in France, callbackworld charges 42¢/minute for calling the USA from a French sim in France and yes SFR and Orange FR do block access to calling cards..(this is a growing cancer among mobile phone providers...Orange UK for example blocks calls to many calling cards in the UK) but as I point out

Theinternational sim card from United Mobile is really the way to go as of today...no short shelf life to worry about as it is easy to get around their 9 month rule.

Hope that helps.

Thanks, xyz123

Every year we spend 5 weeks in Europe in June, and 4 weeks in Sept. About 80% of that time is in France, 15% in Italy, and the remainder elsewhere. We purchased the SFR SIM card in early Sept this year, so it expires in early March '07. This is what I think I'll do for '07:

In February, I'll re-charge my SFR SIM card for 5E - which gives me minutes that expire in 15 days - but keeps my SIM card alive for another 6 months

Subscribe to callbackworld and use it while in France this June.

In late August, we will re-charge the SFR phone again and add another 6 months to the life of the SFR SIM card. The re-charge will expire in 15 days, but we will be in France in late August and we can use the minutes, since they will be "free".

We'll repeat the process for '08.

Here are a few assumptions - let me know if you think any are wrong.

My subscription to callbackworld will not re-charge my SFR SIM card.

As long as my SFR SIM card has not expired (as opposed to the short-time expiration of the re-charge minutes) I can still recieve calls on the SFR SIM card - since they are free. I was told this by the people at SFR, but they could be wrong or I mis-intrepreted their statement.

If people want to call me, they call the same number that's attached to my SFR SIM card - no "new-number" for callbackworld.

If I call out, do you know if my SFR account will be charged or my callbackworld account will be charged - or perhaps both will be charged. This will be the case in Aug when I have some active minutes on the SFR at the same time as the callbackworld is activated. Can I start & stop the callbackworld (perhaps it's not worth the effort - we're only talking about 10E at the most).

Thanks
Stu Dudley

Your plan is pretty good and your number will not change if you keep the account active with the recharging before the 6 month grace period expires...

Let me explain how callbackworld works...when you open up an ccount (free to open and nothing has to be done to maintain) they give you a direct dial number in the USA...you dial that number....what happens is you hear a ringing tone...you allow it to ring once and hang up. No charge on the French side as the call has not been completed.

Now about 15 seconds later, you get a callback from the cbw computer...you answer..no charge to you while in France as you are receiving...you will hear a female voice saying, "Please enter phone number followed by the number sign key now."...so you do it...you will be charged the going rate by callbackworld which as noted is 42¢/minute or thereabouts for calls to the French sim.

The problem comes in within that six month period in making the triggering call...if there is no money in your French SFR you can't make the triggering call; however if you have another cell phone, say a Cingular phone with international roaming, you can dial the triggering number on that phone, no charge as the call is not completed and your French sim will ring...a royal pain in the you know what if you ask me....

Still think the better answer, since you mention you visit other countries besides France is the international united mobile card....works in France, Italy, Spain and everywhere in Western Europe...no recharging necessary as I noted just one billable event every 9 months and callbackworld rates to Liechtenstein (where your united mobile sim will be based) are 14¢/minute 67% less than France.

The only problem people have with United Mobile is many ld carriers charge very high rates to call Liechtenstein numbers and if you have friends in France some landline and mobile companies block calls to the Liechtenstein mobile number (+423..)...the way around that is since most carriers rates to call the USA are cheap is to use united mobile's pin2dest service which I desribed or for another $1.50/month callbackworld will give you your very own USA toll free number which when dialed will ring to your Nited Mobile (Liechtestein) mobile...no matter where in Europe you are dialing that number will ring to your UM phone! There really is no downside to cbw...it is free to open the account, free to maintain the account and you can change the ring to number immediately and easily via the web..there are a few small inconveniences which I have desribed in other posts but somebody just came back from Italy and posted a thank you to me as he followed my advice and found it works nicely and cheaply and like so many other nay sayers discovered the practicality of having his own cell phone with him and not having to worry about different international ld cards which, yes are cheap, but worrying about finding public phones to use them yada yada yada.

How is reception on callbackworld? It is acceptable...it uses a voip system but then again so do most of the cheap international ld cards...not quite as good as landline but more than acceptable. On your end, reception will be as good as the roaming partner you are on and if you are in France, guess what, you will be roaming on SFR or Orange FR anyway so service should be exactly the same as you have with SFR.

>>Let me explain how callbackworld works...when you open up an account (free to open and nothing has to be done to maintain) they give you a direct dial number in the USA...you dial that number....what happens is you hear a ringing tone...you allow it to ring once and hang up. No charge on the French side as the call has not been completed.

Now about 15 seconds later, you get a callback from the cbw computer...you answer..no charge to you while in France as you are receiving...you will hear a female voice saying, "Please enter phone number followed by the number sign key now."...so you do it...you will be charged the going rate by callbackworld which as noted is 42¢/minute or thereabouts for calls to the French sim.<<

I'm not sure I understand what is accomplished here - except for a verification/triggering of the phone number that is to be use for making calls.

When you call them for the triggering call, I assume that they can detect the phone number you called from, & make the callback to you on that number. You then enter the same phone number - just to confirm. Is that correct?


>>The problem comes in within that six month period in making the triggering call...if there is no money in your French SFR you can't make the triggering call; however if you have another cell phone, say a Cingular phone with international roaming, you can dial the triggering number on that phone, no charge as the call is not completed and your French sim will ring...a royal pain in the you know what if you ask me....<<

If what I said earlier is correct, I don't see how this would work if I have only one cell phone to work with (but then I'm dense at times).

If I call them using my Cingular SIM, they would call back to my Cingular SIM number - not my French SFR SIM number. If I then enter my French SFR SIM number, what would happen??

If the triggering/callback number (my Cingular SIM number) really didn't activate anything, and only the number I enter after the callback caused the activation, then I could call from a land line - I would not have to use my Cingular SIM for the initial triggering call. If I did everything from one cell phone using the scenario you described, then I would have to switch SIM cards within 15 seconds - which would be difficult.

I'm guessing/hoping that the scenario using the land line would work - and the number I enter after the callback is the one used to activate callbackworld billing. If this is the case, I could put my SFR SIM card in my cell phone the night before I leave the US for France, and activate it from my land line in the US. Alternatively, I could arrive in France, activate it using either a land line or my Cingular SIM, and then put the SFR SIM in my cell an hour after the transaction was complete??

Another question - If it is free to sign up, what is gained by making a call every nine months to keep the account alive?

Thanks for your patience,

Stu Dudley

No...the triggering number is keyed not to the number calling it but to the number you designate you want to receive the callback at...any call to that number will trigger a callback to the number you designate.

Example...cbw assigns you triggering number +1213 555 1212...you specify to callbackworld you want any call to that triggering number to call back at +423 66300 82 53 (a fictional number BTW)...any call to + 1 213 555 1212 no matter from what phone whether it be a landline, a wrong number, your cingular phone, your united mobile phone, will trigger a call back only to the +423 number....the triggering call is never answered hence it is free....the call back, and this is what makes the thing work if you are on a gsm system where there is no call to receive, is received only on the number you have designated to receive it...since presumably you are not roaming the reception of this call is free....only cbw will charge you and as I noted several times if the call back is to a +423 number, the charge once the call is made say to the USA is 14¢/minute.

Hope that explains it to you.

So, this seems to be how it works:

1. When I set up my account with CBW, I designate that I want the callback on my French SFR SIM number

2. Once in France (or Italy, or anywhere in Europe), I remove my Cingular SIM from my cell, and install the SFR SIM.

3. I call the assigned triggering number, and after 1 ring I hang up.

4. In 15 seconds, CBW calls me back on my cell - which has the SFR SIM installed. I answer & respond by entering my SFR SIM phone number to confirm (I assume) that I'm alive & well on this phone number.

5.....and away I go!!!


Sounds pretty simple - I'll give it a try in June.

I feel like Columbo with one last question - what's the advantage of keeping the account alive while in the US for 10 months, if it is free to activate it again?

Stu Dudley

Stu...

When you get the callback you don't have to verify anything, you simply follow the direction to enter the phone number you are calling followed by the number sign key (#) now...most assuredly you don't press SEND.

The other thing is that you don't use it if you're using your SFR card in Italy...when you're in Italy you're roaming and you pay to receive calls as well as to make them so you would be paying for the callback as well as cbw pricing which could cost you a pretty penny.

The triggering number is yours and yours alone and goes directly to the number you designate

(incidentally, contrary to popular opinion, you can also use cbw for a landline if you have one...you simply designate the landline as your receiving number...works only if you are in a hotel and have a direct number (not an extension( to call and rates are much cheaper as calling a landline from the US is cheaper than calling a mobile number.

>>When you get the callback you don't have to verify anything, you simply follow the direction to enter the phone number you are calling followed by the number sign key (#)<<

Now the light goes on !!!! It's similar to a Phone card..

Phone card
1. I call the "general" phone card access number
2. They respond & ask me too enter the unique number assigned to me
3. I then dial the number I want to call

CBW
1. I call the unique number assigned to me, let it ring once, & hang up
2. They call me back within 15 seconds
3. I answer & call the number I want to call, followed by a #

I interpreted your prior instructions incorrectly, and I thought the call to the CBW unique number happened only once - not each time I wanted to make a call. I should have tried to guess why the name of the service was "call back".

I don't think this would work for me since I don't think I can even start a call unless I have un-expired calling minutes on my SFR SIM card. This is perhaps why you suggested the other card that does not expire.

Stu Dudley

I recently spent a month travelling south amrica - the location isn't important. Myparents (i'm 40 but they still worry) used JaJah to phone me on my mobile (I'm english we have to be surgically removed from our phones) www.jajah.com - yes you need a computer if you are the one initiating the call but as it uses your own phone you can book ahead - so if i wanted to call my paents i would go into an internet cafe and book a call for early the following morning. My parents having their own PC could call whenever they wanted ........... actually maybe that's a disadvantage

Wow, Phil, I am sorry you had such a problem with that company. These threads hopefully will help others avoid them.

I was surprised when reading this entire thread that no one uses t-mobile. We have t-mobile service here in the USA and have used it overseas in Australia, NZ, Fiji, Amsterdam and Paris. It costs 99cents per minute for incoming or outgoing calls, 35 cents per outgoing text and 10 cents per incoming text. (We've only texted so far). If you don't have t-mobile service you can always choose their pay-as-you-go plan.

Of course these rates aren't very low, but we don't need to call home. If we did for long periods of time we would purchase a phone card. But we do have 7 grandparents still alive and want to be reachable in case of an emergency with one of them or other family members.

mark

Stu Dudley,

I am considering activating the international roaming feature on my Cingular phone and taking it to Europe for very occasional / emergency type use or to receive important calls from home. Here's my question, if I get routine calls from the U.S. (from people who do not realize I'm in Europe), will I be charged if I do not answer and they simply leave a message? Will my caller I.D. work in Europe so I know which calls to answer and which ones not to? Thanks,

Greg C