CDF's Guide to European Trains and Railpasses for the Clueless!
Aug 23rd, 2007, 12:33 PM
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CDF's Guide to European Trains and Railpasses for the Clueless!
CHARMEN DE FARE'S GUIDE TO EUROPEAN TRAINS AND RAILPASSES FOR THE CLUELESS
Recently someone posted a rather clueless question about European trains, as is often the case with those contemplating a European train trip, and then said Fodor's needs a thread on European trains - so here it is.
BACKGROUND
I've been riding European trains annually since 1969 (when i actually rode some steam trains in regular passenger service!) and have studied and written loads of articles about European trains and railpasses - writing my own magazine covering the subject for some 20 years. Though i know a lot from this experience, I sure don't know everything and hope FodorFriends will pitch in their advice and experiences as well!
Retired from the magazine, called the Palenque Traveller, now i still love writing and talking about European trains so here goes:
FOR THE CLUELESS
This thread is for the clueless or novice who is planning or contemplating a European rail trip - whether just taking one train or using a railpass, etc.
It will be a long term project that i hope will cover such sundry things as:
***The Train System (It's totally incredible in American context - over 100,000 daily trains!)
***Types of Trains; High-Speed Trains like Eurostar, Thalys, ICE, AVE, etc. And specialty trains like the Glacier Express; Golden Pass, Bernina Express, etc.;
***Railpasses - not for all but a good way if you are traveling enough - all about passes and using them: Eurail Select Passes, Global Eurailpasses, Saver and Twin passes, youth passes, senior passes, country passes, 2-country passes, Rail 'n Drive passes, etc.;
***Alternatives to railpasses: Point-point tickets, regional passes sold only locally, online advance cheapo tickets;
***Resources - web sites for schedules and various good sources;
***Overnight Trains and their efficacy - couchettes, sleeper cars, etc.;
***Car-Carrying 'Auto' Trains;
***Europe's Most Scenic Trains;
***A Look at Trains Country by Country
***City Transit and Commuter Trains
***OnBoard Facilities on Trains (Food, Dealing with luggage, etc;
***Train Stations; Luggage Storage; Porters, Luggage carts;
***1st Class vs 2nd Class seating;
***Seat reservations - mandatory and optional - how to make - availability, advisability;
***Sample Itineraries, including those country specific;
***Train schedules - Thomas Cook, Eurail Timetable, online schedules;
***Narrow-Gauge, Standard Gauge and Cog Trains - Funiculars, Cable Cars, Gondolas, Tilting Trains, Panoramic Observation Cars, etc.
***and lots more i hope.
QUESTIONS - Just ask - I sure can't answer all but rest assured that many Fodorites have proved to be an amazingly knowledgeable source on train travel.
COMMENTS; INPUT
I encourage FodorFriends to add their comments and advice - don't hesitate to crrect or contradict me if need be or give your opinions or experiences.
Sincerely
CDF
Recently someone posted a rather clueless question about European trains, as is often the case with those contemplating a European train trip, and then said Fodor's needs a thread on European trains - so here it is.
BACKGROUND
I've been riding European trains annually since 1969 (when i actually rode some steam trains in regular passenger service!) and have studied and written loads of articles about European trains and railpasses - writing my own magazine covering the subject for some 20 years. Though i know a lot from this experience, I sure don't know everything and hope FodorFriends will pitch in their advice and experiences as well!
Retired from the magazine, called the Palenque Traveller, now i still love writing and talking about European trains so here goes:
FOR THE CLUELESS
This thread is for the clueless or novice who is planning or contemplating a European rail trip - whether just taking one train or using a railpass, etc.
It will be a long term project that i hope will cover such sundry things as:
***The Train System (It's totally incredible in American context - over 100,000 daily trains!)
***Types of Trains; High-Speed Trains like Eurostar, Thalys, ICE, AVE, etc. And specialty trains like the Glacier Express; Golden Pass, Bernina Express, etc.;
***Railpasses - not for all but a good way if you are traveling enough - all about passes and using them: Eurail Select Passes, Global Eurailpasses, Saver and Twin passes, youth passes, senior passes, country passes, 2-country passes, Rail 'n Drive passes, etc.;
***Alternatives to railpasses: Point-point tickets, regional passes sold only locally, online advance cheapo tickets;
***Resources - web sites for schedules and various good sources;
***Overnight Trains and their efficacy - couchettes, sleeper cars, etc.;
***Car-Carrying 'Auto' Trains;
***Europe's Most Scenic Trains;
***A Look at Trains Country by Country
***City Transit and Commuter Trains
***OnBoard Facilities on Trains (Food, Dealing with luggage, etc;
***Train Stations; Luggage Storage; Porters, Luggage carts;
***1st Class vs 2nd Class seating;
***Seat reservations - mandatory and optional - how to make - availability, advisability;
***Sample Itineraries, including those country specific;
***Train schedules - Thomas Cook, Eurail Timetable, online schedules;
***Narrow-Gauge, Standard Gauge and Cog Trains - Funiculars, Cable Cars, Gondolas, Tilting Trains, Panoramic Observation Cars, etc.
***and lots more i hope.
QUESTIONS - Just ask - I sure can't answer all but rest assured that many Fodorites have proved to be an amazingly knowledgeable source on train travel.
COMMENTS; INPUT
I encourage FodorFriends to add their comments and advice - don't hesitate to crrect or contradict me if need be or give your opinions or experiences.
Sincerely
CDF
Aug 24th, 2007, 05:59 AM
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thanks - Q's at anytime and i sincerely hope that anyone will not hesitate to contribute their area of expertise - especially in the gaps in my resources like online fare discounts like you and others know so much about.
Q's - Comments anytime please!
Q's - Comments anytime please!
Aug 24th, 2007, 06:23 AM
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PalenqueBob,
This will be very useful and I look forward to seeing it develop. IMHO, it should also include a "When to take the train?" segment. Thinking about trains and buses as alternatives to the "plane-car-plane" trip rhythm might be helpful.
This will be very useful and I look forward to seeing it develop. IMHO, it should also include a "When to take the train?" segment. Thinking about trains and buses as alternatives to the "plane-car-plane" trip rhythm might be helpful.
Aug 24th, 2007, 08:08 AM
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LJ - thanks - i will start in earnest next week but good to get comments of these natures.
Yes - yes where to train and where there is a perhaps better alternative - mixing in flights - especially now with the dirt-cheap Ryanair and easyJet types and in which countries trains are less viable than say buses or air.
And where trains make sense (if doing the usual Paris-Munich-Vienna-Venice-florence-Rome type trip (and also an example where you can fly back to Paris or London from where you end up) as cars are basically a liability in these mega tourist cities - cars are banned from many town centres, theft from them is a problem, driving in them can be hectic, parking expensive if can be found, etc.
But cars are great for seeing the countryside - exploring Provence, Tuscany, Germany's Mosel Valley, Loire Valley, Umbria, etc.
But those are two very different type trips - train is not always the best and i note your suggestion. thanks.
Yes - yes where to train and where there is a perhaps better alternative - mixing in flights - especially now with the dirt-cheap Ryanair and easyJet types and in which countries trains are less viable than say buses or air.
And where trains make sense (if doing the usual Paris-Munich-Vienna-Venice-florence-Rome type trip (and also an example where you can fly back to Paris or London from where you end up) as cars are basically a liability in these mega tourist cities - cars are banned from many town centres, theft from them is a problem, driving in them can be hectic, parking expensive if can be found, etc.
But cars are great for seeing the countryside - exploring Provence, Tuscany, Germany's Mosel Valley, Loire Valley, Umbria, etc.
But those are two very different type trips - train is not always the best and i note your suggestion. thanks.
Sep 4th, 2007, 11:08 AM
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Author: Brahmama
Date: 08/20/2007, 09:53 am
I wish the Forum had a train section!
Aux quais Brahmam - here goes - starting tomorrow but any more suggestions of the general scope nature?
Date: 08/20/2007, 09:53 am
I wish the Forum had a train section!
Aux quais Brahmam - here goes - starting tomorrow but any more suggestions of the general scope nature?
Sep 12th, 2007, 08:51 AM
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THE FANTASTIC EUROPEAN RAIL SYSTEM
Americans have absolutely no idea of how modern trains are on the Continent today as they only have Amtrak and some commuter rail lines to compare it to - and there is NO comparison.
As opposed to the skeletal rail network of Amtrak, where there may be a few trains a day on many lines, European cities are inevitably connected at least hourly, or more, by fast, clean, modern trains. And unlike Amtrak virtually every sizeable city and thousands of tiny ones are on the European rail grid.
There are literally said to be over 100,000 trains a day rolling over European rails. And while just a few Amtrak trains reach 125 mph - the international standard to be called high-speed, many European trains routinely tool around at speed approaching and even over 200 mph.
And trains are usually (except in the U.K.) on time - unlike the hours delays Amtrak riders often report. since trains run hourly anywhere you don't even really need to know schedules - just turn up at a station and there should be a train going to where you want to go within the hour.
Indeed trains are replacing air travel on many routes, such as between Paris and Brussels and London and Paris/Brussels as train travel time is constantly slashed, comfort level increased and you start and end in the city centres in thoroughly modern stations that often resemble mini-cities.
ONBOARD FACILITIES
European trains, at least on the Continent, are getting more and more modern and client-comfort oriented all the time.
Most trains, except commuter trains, have some kind of food service aboard, including on longer IC (InterCity) or EC (EuroCity) trains often a restaurant car. Plus passengers can bring on any kind of food or beverage themselves (yes including booze!)
There is usually ample room for luggage and there are few restrictions as to the amount of luggage you can bring on (more on luggage later) - lots of overhead racks and usually by each door racks for extra large or heavy luggage.
Most trains are now non-smoking and nearly all have FIRST CLASS and SECOND CLASS seating - often in separate cars but at times in cars divided by class. (More on difference between classes later).
Of course long distance trains have WCs and wash basins.
Some trains even now have WI-Fi access - at times free or perhaps a charge. And some, like airplanes, have video screens at seats.
In short today's European trains are not your father's trains of just a few decades ago but extremely modern and comfortable trains with large WINDOWS so you can see the lay of the land between cities.
Transportation from the city centre stations is similarly great - taxis are plentiful (and at times can even be booked on the train in advance) and public transportation is usually superb - metros, trams or buses can easily take you anywhere.
TRAIN STATIONS
And stations are not in dicey areas - at least any i know but are usually near the heart of the city. They'll have luggage lockers to store bags, lots of eateries and snack stands, information counters for any schedules or questions - and English is nearly always spoken - often a tourist office for town maps and hotel/hostel booking, etc. Porters are often lacking however but there will usually be luggage carts available trackside - though these are often free they do require putting a coin in them to disengage them and then your coin is returned if you return to luggage cart to its rack.
STATION HOTELS
Though a few stations may be hooked to hotels usually it's a case of several hotels, including major chain ones, ringing the station, making it super easy for the tourist. Many station areas are not the cutest parts of towns however so except for convenience you'll find it easy to taxi and take public transport anywhere in town.
TBC - NEXT TYPES OF TRAINS
(I am writing this impromptu and invite questions, comments any time - later i will recopy and edit for more integrity to topic.)
QUESTIONS - Any time any kind on train travel. I may not be able to answer all but surely others can answer ANY such question.
Americans have absolutely no idea of how modern trains are on the Continent today as they only have Amtrak and some commuter rail lines to compare it to - and there is NO comparison.
As opposed to the skeletal rail network of Amtrak, where there may be a few trains a day on many lines, European cities are inevitably connected at least hourly, or more, by fast, clean, modern trains. And unlike Amtrak virtually every sizeable city and thousands of tiny ones are on the European rail grid.
There are literally said to be over 100,000 trains a day rolling over European rails. And while just a few Amtrak trains reach 125 mph - the international standard to be called high-speed, many European trains routinely tool around at speed approaching and even over 200 mph.
And trains are usually (except in the U.K.) on time - unlike the hours delays Amtrak riders often report. since trains run hourly anywhere you don't even really need to know schedules - just turn up at a station and there should be a train going to where you want to go within the hour.
Indeed trains are replacing air travel on many routes, such as between Paris and Brussels and London and Paris/Brussels as train travel time is constantly slashed, comfort level increased and you start and end in the city centres in thoroughly modern stations that often resemble mini-cities.
ONBOARD FACILITIES
European trains, at least on the Continent, are getting more and more modern and client-comfort oriented all the time.
Most trains, except commuter trains, have some kind of food service aboard, including on longer IC (InterCity) or EC (EuroCity) trains often a restaurant car. Plus passengers can bring on any kind of food or beverage themselves (yes including booze!)
There is usually ample room for luggage and there are few restrictions as to the amount of luggage you can bring on (more on luggage later) - lots of overhead racks and usually by each door racks for extra large or heavy luggage.
Most trains are now non-smoking and nearly all have FIRST CLASS and SECOND CLASS seating - often in separate cars but at times in cars divided by class. (More on difference between classes later).
Of course long distance trains have WCs and wash basins.
Some trains even now have WI-Fi access - at times free or perhaps a charge. And some, like airplanes, have video screens at seats.
In short today's European trains are not your father's trains of just a few decades ago but extremely modern and comfortable trains with large WINDOWS so you can see the lay of the land between cities.
Transportation from the city centre stations is similarly great - taxis are plentiful (and at times can even be booked on the train in advance) and public transportation is usually superb - metros, trams or buses can easily take you anywhere.
TRAIN STATIONS
And stations are not in dicey areas - at least any i know but are usually near the heart of the city. They'll have luggage lockers to store bags, lots of eateries and snack stands, information counters for any schedules or questions - and English is nearly always spoken - often a tourist office for town maps and hotel/hostel booking, etc. Porters are often lacking however but there will usually be luggage carts available trackside - though these are often free they do require putting a coin in them to disengage them and then your coin is returned if you return to luggage cart to its rack.
STATION HOTELS
Though a few stations may be hooked to hotels usually it's a case of several hotels, including major chain ones, ringing the station, making it super easy for the tourist. Many station areas are not the cutest parts of towns however so except for convenience you'll find it easy to taxi and take public transport anywhere in town.
TBC - NEXT TYPES OF TRAINS
(I am writing this impromptu and invite questions, comments any time - later i will recopy and edit for more integrity to topic.)
QUESTIONS - Any time any kind on train travel. I may not be able to answer all but surely others can answer ANY such question.
Sep 12th, 2007, 12:13 PM
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TYPES OF TRAINS
Although the typical tourist will ride mainly IC and EC trains or their equivalents under various names like TGV, AVE, ICE, ESI, CIS, etc. there are many different types of trains, including:
HIGH-SPEED TRAINS
These have grabbed the most ink in the last few decades as all-new rights-of-way (rail lines) purposely built to accommodate high-speed trains, whose speed capabilities are hampered on traditional lines - the bulk of European railways.
The French TGV (Train a Grande Vitesse) was Europe's first successful high-speed railway - going at speeds of up to 186 mph and now approaching 200 mph. The all new tracks avoid most cities, skirting them and often using all-new TGV stations a few miles out of town centres (and linked to them by shuttle buses or trains).
The tracks are a radical departure from the long flat often twisting grades of conventional rail lines - TGV tracks are more built to the terrain, going up and down hills easily because of the strong engines allow it.
Thus these lines tend to go in straight lines instead of curving thru hilly terrain - gaining speed from a more direct route as well as more powerful engines.
High-speed trains have proved to be extremely safe - i believe there has never been a death on a high-speed line due to an accident.
TGV trains may also run on conventional tracks when they leave the newer high-speed portions. Thus TGVs bullet from Paris to Marseille at high-speed but then limp over the Marseille-Nice portion on congested, older, less safe for high speed tracks.
Various High-Speed Trains (not all inclusive)
FRANCE - TGVs run on TGV Sud-Est, the oldest line Paris to Lyon and now to Avignon, Aix-en-Provence and Marseille
TGV-Est - the recently completed Paris to: Reims, Metz, Nancy, Strasbourg, Luxembourg and Saarbrucken, Germany line (to be extended into Germany to Frankfurt and Stuttgart)
TGV Atlantique - Paris to Bordeaux with a spur Paris-Rennes
TGV Nord - Paris to Lille over Eurostar (London-Paris) route.
GERMANY - ICE (Inter-Continental-Express) - though ICE trains connect all main Germany cities at least hourly they only run on high-speed capable tracks in a relatively small portion. Like Cologne to Frankfurt Airport - the fastest currently passenger service in Europe at 195 mph consistently top speed. And there are high-speed lines from Frankfurt region to Stuttgart, Berlin to Hamburg, north of Munich, etc. as the system is still being constructed.
ITALY
ETR trains, also called ESI (Eurostar Italia) and other names run mainly between Milan, Florence, Rome and Naples - with parts of the line still to be built.
SPAIN
The AVE bullet trains (really French TGV train sets) run between Madrid and Seville, Madrid and Barcelona (true high-speed not yet attained due to technical snafus) and Madrid-Malaga and Madrid-Toledo
BENELUX
(Belgium, Netherlands, Luxembourg)
THALYS trains link Paris-Brussels-Amsterdam or Paris-Brussels-Cologne
And bullet trains will also start providing regional 'sprinter' service over the recently completed Brussels-Amsterdam high-speed portion.
SWEDEN
X2000 trains are the crack Scanadinavian trains - running between Stockholm and Goteborg and Malmo and Stockholm.
UNITED KINGDOM
The country's first all-new railway just opened to trials between London St Pancras station and the Chunnel for Eurostar trains to Brussels or Paris. Kent Sprinters will also run over the rails (or whatever name they give it)
Otherwise Britain is an exception in the high-speed development and trains limp along on deteriorating congested tracks.
GLOBAL TRAINS
Most of the above trains are called Global Trains, meaning mainly they tend to have a Byzantine pricing structure similar to airlines - lots of different prices for advance purchase non-refundable non-changeable tickets, rates for youths under 26, seniors over 59, railpass holders, etc. Full fare can cost a ton so early birds do get the worms on these trains.
Tilting Trains
Although the typical tourist will ride mainly IC and EC trains or their equivalents under various names like TGV, AVE, ICE, ESI, CIS, etc. there are many different types of trains, including:
HIGH-SPEED TRAINS
These have grabbed the most ink in the last few decades as all-new rights-of-way (rail lines) purposely built to accommodate high-speed trains, whose speed capabilities are hampered on traditional lines - the bulk of European railways.
The French TGV (Train a Grande Vitesse) was Europe's first successful high-speed railway - going at speeds of up to 186 mph and now approaching 200 mph. The all new tracks avoid most cities, skirting them and often using all-new TGV stations a few miles out of town centres (and linked to them by shuttle buses or trains).
The tracks are a radical departure from the long flat often twisting grades of conventional rail lines - TGV tracks are more built to the terrain, going up and down hills easily because of the strong engines allow it.
Thus these lines tend to go in straight lines instead of curving thru hilly terrain - gaining speed from a more direct route as well as more powerful engines.
High-speed trains have proved to be extremely safe - i believe there has never been a death on a high-speed line due to an accident.
TGV trains may also run on conventional tracks when they leave the newer high-speed portions. Thus TGVs bullet from Paris to Marseille at high-speed but then limp over the Marseille-Nice portion on congested, older, less safe for high speed tracks.
Various High-Speed Trains (not all inclusive)
FRANCE - TGVs run on TGV Sud-Est, the oldest line Paris to Lyon and now to Avignon, Aix-en-Provence and Marseille
TGV-Est - the recently completed Paris to: Reims, Metz, Nancy, Strasbourg, Luxembourg and Saarbrucken, Germany line (to be extended into Germany to Frankfurt and Stuttgart)
TGV Atlantique - Paris to Bordeaux with a spur Paris-Rennes
TGV Nord - Paris to Lille over Eurostar (London-Paris) route.
GERMANY - ICE (Inter-Continental-Express) - though ICE trains connect all main Germany cities at least hourly they only run on high-speed capable tracks in a relatively small portion. Like Cologne to Frankfurt Airport - the fastest currently passenger service in Europe at 195 mph consistently top speed. And there are high-speed lines from Frankfurt region to Stuttgart, Berlin to Hamburg, north of Munich, etc. as the system is still being constructed.
ITALY
ETR trains, also called ESI (Eurostar Italia) and other names run mainly between Milan, Florence, Rome and Naples - with parts of the line still to be built.
SPAIN
The AVE bullet trains (really French TGV train sets) run between Madrid and Seville, Madrid and Barcelona (true high-speed not yet attained due to technical snafus) and Madrid-Malaga and Madrid-Toledo
BENELUX
(Belgium, Netherlands, Luxembourg)
THALYS trains link Paris-Brussels-Amsterdam or Paris-Brussels-Cologne
And bullet trains will also start providing regional 'sprinter' service over the recently completed Brussels-Amsterdam high-speed portion.
SWEDEN
X2000 trains are the crack Scanadinavian trains - running between Stockholm and Goteborg and Malmo and Stockholm.
UNITED KINGDOM
The country's first all-new railway just opened to trials between London St Pancras station and the Chunnel for Eurostar trains to Brussels or Paris. Kent Sprinters will also run over the rails (or whatever name they give it)
Otherwise Britain is an exception in the high-speed development and trains limp along on deteriorating congested tracks.
GLOBAL TRAINS
Most of the above trains are called Global Trains, meaning mainly they tend to have a Byzantine pricing structure similar to airlines - lots of different prices for advance purchase non-refundable non-changeable tickets, rates for youths under 26, seniors over 59, railpass holders, etc. Full fare can cost a ton so early birds do get the worms on these trains.
Tilting Trains
Sep 13th, 2007, 07:34 AM
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IC, EC, REGIONAL, LOCAL, COMMUTER TRAINS
So we have the modern high-speed rail network that is constantly expanding with ultra-modern trains that typically cost more than other trains and except in Germany require advance reservations.
And then we have the bulk of European trains - IC AND EC, REGIONAL, LOCAL AND COMMUTER TRAINS
IC AND EC TRAINS
InterCity (IC) or EuroCity (EC) trains still form the bulk of inter-city train travel. Sometimes they duplicate the high-speed lines but usually stop more at smaller stations. They generally don't require reservations though this is changing as European railways seek to match actual number of seats carried to bodies in the seats - this in the way of providing advance-purchase non-refundable non-changeable tickets that guarantee full or nearly full trains.
IC trains are usually modern and quite comfy. EC trains are basically IC trains that run between countries. EC trains must meet certain criteria before earning the EC label. One of them is to have staff who speak and PA announcement that are given in four (i think) languages, including English as well as the local languages of the countries. English is a requirement regardless.
So we have the modern high-speed rail network that is constantly expanding with ultra-modern trains that typically cost more than other trains and except in Germany require advance reservations.
And then we have the bulk of European trains - IC AND EC, REGIONAL, LOCAL AND COMMUTER TRAINS
IC AND EC TRAINS
InterCity (IC) or EuroCity (EC) trains still form the bulk of inter-city train travel. Sometimes they duplicate the high-speed lines but usually stop more at smaller stations. They generally don't require reservations though this is changing as European railways seek to match actual number of seats carried to bodies in the seats - this in the way of providing advance-purchase non-refundable non-changeable tickets that guarantee full or nearly full trains.
IC trains are usually modern and quite comfy. EC trains are basically IC trains that run between countries. EC trains must meet certain criteria before earning the EC label. One of them is to have staff who speak and PA announcement that are given in four (i think) languages, including English as well as the local languages of the countries. English is a requirement regardless.
Sep 14th, 2007, 09:11 AM
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REGIONAL TRAINS
The bulk of the European rail system is composed of Regional Trains, often called 'Stopping Trains' as though these trains run the same routes as IC and faster trains regional trains will stop at many stations the fast trains blow thru.
Thus they are feeder trains from smaller towns to get to a major city where they can transfer to an express train or just for commuters moving between the intermediary stations. School kids tend to pack on these trains at times to move between their school town and home towns.
Though most tourists will rarely ride a regional train, these trains offer a completely different rail travel experience as they stop at sleepy stations and mainly draw a totally local crowd.
And Regional trains also travel on SIDELINES without much or any express trains. And these trains can be very delightful, especially if they climb into hills or track through desolate areas.
The so-called MICHELINES in France are a perfect example - this probably antiquated nickname for sideline trains, usually consisting of just a few cars, originated in the early 1900s when the Michelin Tire Company tried to put rubber wheels on trains and actually did and these sideline trains came to be dubbed "Michelines"
Anyway to ride a Micheline through the Massif Central in France or similar desolate but starkly beautiful place is a whole different trip than riding nearly 200 mph TGV trains.
The bulk of the European rail system is composed of Regional Trains, often called 'Stopping Trains' as though these trains run the same routes as IC and faster trains regional trains will stop at many stations the fast trains blow thru.
Thus they are feeder trains from smaller towns to get to a major city where they can transfer to an express train or just for commuters moving between the intermediary stations. School kids tend to pack on these trains at times to move between their school town and home towns.
Though most tourists will rarely ride a regional train, these trains offer a completely different rail travel experience as they stop at sleepy stations and mainly draw a totally local crowd.
And Regional trains also travel on SIDELINES without much or any express trains. And these trains can be very delightful, especially if they climb into hills or track through desolate areas.
The so-called MICHELINES in France are a perfect example - this probably antiquated nickname for sideline trains, usually consisting of just a few cars, originated in the early 1900s when the Michelin Tire Company tried to put rubber wheels on trains and actually did and these sideline trains came to be dubbed "Michelines"
Anyway to ride a Micheline through the Massif Central in France or similar desolate but starkly beautiful place is a whole different trip than riding nearly 200 mph TGV trains.
Sep 20th, 2007, 10:03 AM
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COMMUTER TRAINS
run literally thousands of times a day into and out of any big city and sometimes, like in Germany's S-Bahn, right thru the heart of town.
Most tourists will rarely take a commuter train except on day trips - like Paris to Versailles (3 different commuter rail lines go there) or in Munich the S-Bahn to Dachau (for bus to memorial) or in Berlin the S-Bahn to Potsdam (for the fabulous Sans Soucci Palace and park) or in London to Windsor, etc.
Commuter trains usually run very frequently and can be mobbed at rush hours so plan accordingly.
Commuter trains often may fall under the umbrella of city transit passes, such as the Bavarian Pass and local Lander passes in Germany.
They are also valid with Eurail and other railpasses, though you must use a day of travel to do so - often no warrarnted unless you have a consecutive day pass.
Thus with all the train types above you can literally reach almost any sizeable city and many burgs by train - where trains don't go buses usually fan out from stations so everywhere in Europe is virtually accessible by public transporation.
As they say in Germany "Have a Gute Fahrt" - always cracks me up to see this written on station billboards and trains - means "have a good journey" or "ride"
run literally thousands of times a day into and out of any big city and sometimes, like in Germany's S-Bahn, right thru the heart of town.
Most tourists will rarely take a commuter train except on day trips - like Paris to Versailles (3 different commuter rail lines go there) or in Munich the S-Bahn to Dachau (for bus to memorial) or in Berlin the S-Bahn to Potsdam (for the fabulous Sans Soucci Palace and park) or in London to Windsor, etc.
Commuter trains usually run very frequently and can be mobbed at rush hours so plan accordingly.
Commuter trains often may fall under the umbrella of city transit passes, such as the Bavarian Pass and local Lander passes in Germany.
They are also valid with Eurail and other railpasses, though you must use a day of travel to do so - often no warrarnted unless you have a consecutive day pass.
Thus with all the train types above you can literally reach almost any sizeable city and many burgs by train - where trains don't go buses usually fan out from stations so everywhere in Europe is virtually accessible by public transporation.
As they say in Germany "Have a Gute Fahrt" - always cracks me up to see this written on station billboards and trains - means "have a good journey" or "ride"
Sep 21st, 2007, 07:15 AM
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OVERNIGHT TRAINS (Sleeper Trains)
Another type of train that many tourists may find useful to cover long distances under the cover of darkness are Europe's plethora of overnight trains.
Though the number is slowing declining due to cheaper air fares or high-speed train cutting travel times (like Paris-Amsterdam down to about 4 hours so the Paris-Amsterdam night train was dropped), dozens and dozens of overnight trains still link practically any two main cities that are far enough apart.
Without now going into the make-up and nitty-gritty of overnight trains, which will be done indepth later on, consider these when planning your rail trips or itineraries in general.
Some possible night trains:
Paris to: Barcelona, Madrid, Nice, Berlin, Munich, Frankfurt, Vienna, Zurich, Venice, Milan, Rome, Florence
Italy - several domestic night trains such as Sicily-Rome/Milan; Venice-Rome; etc.
and Rome-Munich, Vienna, Zurich, Bern, Basel, Nice, Paris
and Venice-Nice, Vienna, Munich, Zagreb, Belgrade, Budapest, Paris (but Geneva-Venice night train recently axed)
and dozens and dozens of more.
More on overnight trains later
NEXT: GREAT SOURCES OF INFO
Another type of train that many tourists may find useful to cover long distances under the cover of darkness are Europe's plethora of overnight trains.
Though the number is slowing declining due to cheaper air fares or high-speed train cutting travel times (like Paris-Amsterdam down to about 4 hours so the Paris-Amsterdam night train was dropped), dozens and dozens of overnight trains still link practically any two main cities that are far enough apart.
Without now going into the make-up and nitty-gritty of overnight trains, which will be done indepth later on, consider these when planning your rail trips or itineraries in general.
Some possible night trains:
Paris to: Barcelona, Madrid, Nice, Berlin, Munich, Frankfurt, Vienna, Zurich, Venice, Milan, Rome, Florence
Italy - several domestic night trains such as Sicily-Rome/Milan; Venice-Rome; etc.
and Rome-Munich, Vienna, Zurich, Bern, Basel, Nice, Paris
and Venice-Nice, Vienna, Munich, Zagreb, Belgrade, Budapest, Paris (but Geneva-Venice night train recently axed)
and dozens and dozens of more.
More on overnight trains later
NEXT: GREAT SOURCES OF INFO
Sep 21st, 2007, 09:10 AM
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thanks Dukey - inspired me to make a more complete list, in dribs and drabs perhaps:
Scandinavia
Malmo-Berlin (train actually goes on boat at Treelborg i believe)
Malmo-Stockholm
Malmo-Oslo (*not sure of current status)
Oslo-Stockhom (does not run every night, esp in winter)
Oslo-Bergen, Trondheim, Stavenger (no night trains in Norway on Sat nights)
Stockholm-Helsinki (overnight ferry)
Helsinki-rostock (night ferry)
Helsinki-Rovaniemi (Arctic Circle)
Stockholm-Hasslehom
Stockholm- Narvik, Boden
Stockhom-Turku (night ferry)
Stockhom-Ulmea
(these are all i can track down for Scandinavia but there are probably more)
Oslo-Copenhagen (overnight boat)
Scandinavia
Malmo-Berlin (train actually goes on boat at Treelborg i believe)
Malmo-Stockholm
Malmo-Oslo (*not sure of current status)
Oslo-Stockhom (does not run every night, esp in winter)
Oslo-Bergen, Trondheim, Stavenger (no night trains in Norway on Sat nights)
Stockholm-Helsinki (overnight ferry)
Helsinki-rostock (night ferry)
Helsinki-Rovaniemi (Arctic Circle)
Stockholm-Hasslehom
Stockholm- Narvik, Boden
Stockhom-Turku (night ferry)
Stockhom-Ulmea
(these are all i can track down for Scandinavia but there are probably more)
Oslo-Copenhagen (overnight boat)
Sep 21st, 2007, 10:06 AM
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Very nice to see you addressing this - it's a enormous task! Best of luck and have fun.
Just an observation:
As we are planning an Eastern (or some people prefer to say Middle)European trip in 2008, we are noticing the difference in the trains. By price, stock, velocity, even safety at some stations. Perhaps you would want a separate section for this area of Europe while there is (or appears to be) such disparity.
Thank you again.
Just an observation:
As we are planning an Eastern (or some people prefer to say Middle)European trip in 2008, we are noticing the difference in the trains. By price, stock, velocity, even safety at some stations. Perhaps you would want a separate section for this area of Europe while there is (or appears to be) such disparity.
Thank you again.
Sep 21st, 2007, 12:18 PM
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Brahmama - thanx for the suggestion - i do plan to cover various countries and areas like old East Bloc in detail at some time.
I have not been to Eastern Europe a whole lot in the past few years and think that on main lines - say an EC EuroCity train on main lines between say Prague and Warsaw, etc. are probably up to snuff now in terms of modernity but not nearly speed, due to old deteriorating tracks IME
Still a bit of the old time clicky clack of old train days.
Yet there are improvements again to main passenger corridors. Czech Republic put in service some nearly high-speed train last year.
Regional trains IME can be rather grungy - old, not so clean, etc. and stop at every little station - yet they are dirt cheap.
So i'll try to address E Europe a bit better, hopefully with the help of others who may have had more extensive railing there the past few years.
(Anyone care to comment now, please do!)
I have not been to Eastern Europe a whole lot in the past few years and think that on main lines - say an EC EuroCity train on main lines between say Prague and Warsaw, etc. are probably up to snuff now in terms of modernity but not nearly speed, due to old deteriorating tracks IME
Still a bit of the old time clicky clack of old train days.
Yet there are improvements again to main passenger corridors. Czech Republic put in service some nearly high-speed train last year.
Regional trains IME can be rather grungy - old, not so clean, etc. and stop at every little station - yet they are dirt cheap.
So i'll try to address E Europe a bit better, hopefully with the help of others who may have had more extensive railing there the past few years.
(Anyone care to comment now, please do!)
Sep 24th, 2007, 07:48 AM
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MORE POSSIBLE OVERNIGHT TRAINS
SPAIN
Madrid-Barcelona, Bilboa, Hendaye (French border town), Lisbon (only direct or feasidble train connection between Madrid and Lisbon), Paris (Talgo direct- Hotel Train), San Sebastian, Santiago de Compostela, Vigo.
Barcelona- Paris (Talgo hotel train) or by taking local train to Cerbere, French border town then French night train to Paris), Barcelona to: Geneva, Bern and Zurich, Switzerland - Talgo hotel train; Bar-Milan, Italy Talgo hotel train; Barcelona overnight boat to Civitavecchia, Italy; Bar-Granda, Pamplona, San Sebastian, Bilboa, and Nice (local train to Cerbere, France border and then French overnight train to Nice.
SPAIN
Madrid-Barcelona, Bilboa, Hendaye (French border town), Lisbon (only direct or feasidble train connection between Madrid and Lisbon), Paris (Talgo direct- Hotel Train), San Sebastian, Santiago de Compostela, Vigo.
Barcelona- Paris (Talgo hotel train) or by taking local train to Cerbere, French border town then French night train to Paris), Barcelona to: Geneva, Bern and Zurich, Switzerland - Talgo hotel train; Bar-Milan, Italy Talgo hotel train; Barcelona overnight boat to Civitavecchia, Italy; Bar-Granda, Pamplona, San Sebastian, Bilboa, and Nice (local train to Cerbere, France border and then French overnight train to Nice.
Sep 25th, 2007, 11:25 AM
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MORE OVERNIGHT TRAINS
ITALY
Rome, Florence, Venice, Milan and points in between to Paris
Rome to Vienna, Zurich, Torino, Nice, Palermo and Catania and other Sicilian towns, Munich, Milan, Venice, Innsbruck, Brindisi and points south of it, Bern, Basel, Trieste
Venice-Zagreb and Belgrade
and some others i'm sure
Sicily-Naples to Milan and Torino
ITALY
Rome, Florence, Venice, Milan and points in between to Paris
Rome to Vienna, Zurich, Torino, Nice, Palermo and Catania and other Sicilian towns, Munich, Milan, Venice, Innsbruck, Brindisi and points south of it, Bern, Basel, Trieste
Venice-Zagreb and Belgrade
and some others i'm sure
Sicily-Naples to Milan and Torino
Sep 26th, 2007, 06:34 AM
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GERMAN NIGHT TRAINS
Amongst the most comfy in Europe Germany's NZ (DB Nachtzug) and CNL (CityNightLiner) overnight trains link many key German towns as well as to nearby countries like Austria, Switzerland and Holland.
BERLIN to Basel, Brussels, Krakow, Malmo (Copenhagen), Munich, Cologne, Warsaw, Zurich, Paris.
MUNICH to: Amsterdam, Zagreb, Belgrade, Dusseldorf, Dresden, Florence, Rome, Venice, Hamburg, Copenhagen, Cologne, Ljubljana, Prague, Vienna, Paris
BASEL to: Dusseldorf, Florence, Bologna, Florence, Rome.
Amongst the most comfy in Europe Germany's NZ (DB Nachtzug) and CNL (CityNightLiner) overnight trains link many key German towns as well as to nearby countries like Austria, Switzerland and Holland.
BERLIN to Basel, Brussels, Krakow, Malmo (Copenhagen), Munich, Cologne, Warsaw, Zurich, Paris.
MUNICH to: Amsterdam, Zagreb, Belgrade, Dusseldorf, Dresden, Florence, Rome, Venice, Hamburg, Copenhagen, Cologne, Ljubljana, Prague, Vienna, Paris
BASEL to: Dusseldorf, Florence, Bologna, Florence, Rome.
