carry on... not possible?
 

I'm in big trouble and don't know what to do. All I can think of is that my dream will not come true.
I have an 18" and a 21" Eagle Creek Switchback carry ons (add 2" for the wheels)
I've been dreaming for years of traveling to Europe and have only one 18" carry on with me.
Today, after printing out the very well thought and revised packing list, I started testing my packing for my 26 day Switzerland and England trip. I'll be hosteling about 11 days (I've been traveling each year but not to Europe and not with only 1 carry on)
To my horror, I can't fit everything I need in that 18" carry on. And I only bring 2 pairs of pants!
I don't know what to do. If I use the 21"(23")carry on, is there a possibility that they'll make me check it? I'm flying Swiss Air. The whole thing weighs about 20 lb. or may be a little more (I didn't weigh foods and fruits). I don't know how to make it lighter and smaller.
I'm only 5' and can't carry a backpack because I have lower back problem. I need my bag under the front seat so I can rest my feet there. My feet are too short and don't reach the floor. So I do need my carry on as my foot stool.
I need help badly! Thank you very much in advance.
Here is my packing list:
On my body:
Black Jacket
Pants
Tank Top
Bra
Underwear
Cardigan
Socks
Black Walking Shoes

In the Money Belt
Passport
Swiss : Plane tickets, Swiss pass, Jungfrau tickets
England: Plane tickets, Haggis Tour, bus pass
2 Visa Cards
$200.- cash
2 Personal checks
Driver?s License
Health Insurance info
Youth Hostel Card

In Carry on bag:
Front parts:
1. Eye Gel and Eye Drops
2. Anti bacteria hand lotion
3. Wet Wipes
4. Daily Lactaid
2nd Part:
1.Neck Pillow
3rd Part:
Fruits and food
Camera
foldable day bag and foldable duffel bag(in case I shop)
foldable rain jacket
Calculator& Compass(very very tiny)
Bottled Water (I think I'll carry this in my hand)
1 pair airline slippers
2 Thin Hand Towels (I have long hair)
1 Sarong
Neck Pillow
2 Pants
5 Tank tops
Umbrella (light 6")
foldable Hat
5 Pairs Socks (Thorlo walking socks: pretty thick)
5 Pairs very light Panties
2 Bras
1 Flip Flops
1 Retractable cable Lock
2 Combination Locks
Ziploc Bags: various sizes
3 Big Trash Bags: rain
Sun Glasses
Prescription Glasses
Pens
Note Book
Glue Stick
Sticky Note
Extra Passport photos
Photo copies of passport

If you're not backpacking thru Europe then just take a suitcase with your carry on. Did you plan on bringing home any souvenirs? If so, where were you planning to stuff them? Bottled water is available on the plane and in Europe so leave yours at home as well as the fruits. Why do you need a gluestick?

Well - IF you take a hand bag then your problem seems to be solved.

Many of the things you list in your carry-on would be better packed in a medium sized handbag (you will need one since you can't carry an 18 or 21 incher around w/ you everyday.)

So if you put the water, food, eye gel, hand wipes, airline slippers (why do you need 2 pairs of those?), hand lotion, wet wipes and all the little bits. Then place the handbag under the seat to use as a footrest and place the carry-on in the overhead.

You should be able to easily get all of this stuff into an 18 incher and a handbag or healthy back bag.

Doesn't sound like that much to me but I would leave the two extra bags behind.
I would use the 18 inch bag and take a sports style bag that you can lock, heavy nylon, about 14 inches long, this size fits on the floor under your airline seat. Make sure either it or the wheelie have room left for other purchases. You can then use this bag on it's own if you are only staying one or two nights in a place, lock the wheelie away in a train station or bus station locker just taking out what will be needed for your stay. Then if you over buy, purchase a light nylon day pack, in fact they are easy to pack anyway and then wear that on your last few days, easy to manage and little weight. Put the light stuff into that and the heavier into the wheelie, that will save your back.
Leave the handtowels behind, you can always buy one if necessary. I find them too bulky. Consider the jacket, if you are going in summer does it need to be a heavy one or will the rain jacket do?
If the wheelie has a compartment on the outside keep the jacket in there, I carried one for two months and only used it on the last few days and that was winter. I used mostly a sleeveless warm vest with a zip up the front.
Post home any brochures or thin books, paper weighs heavy and becomes a nuisance.
You might get away with taking both bags on board but be prepared if not to check the wheelie bag.
What's the point in carrying bottled water when they have it on the plane?

Something to be aware of:
Twice in the last 6 months I have flown SWISS and they have not allowed me to bring a daypack and handbag as carry-on items (2 items). I had to put my handbag into my daypack, and then it was OK - so make sure if you bring a handbag that it will fit into your roller bag.

I agree with Kathy: ditch the jacket. A sweather and the rain jacket should be enough (it WILL rain).

Make sure some of those tank tops have sleeves. I take running tops made of high tech fibres (Coolmax etc) as they fold down to nothing, and dry immediately after hand washing.

Could you take the bigger one and check it in, then carry the smaller one on as your footrest?

I thought Swissair went bankrupt. Do you mean Swiss International? If so, according to their website, www.swiss.com, you are allowed one carry-on, 22x16x8 inches. It can't weigh more than 22 pounds. You are also allowed to take on board "property necessary for your comfort on the flight, e.g., a blanket and some reading material."

It appears that your 21" carry-on meets their requirements. I don't think you need to add 2" for the wheels, but perhaps someone else can clarify.

You listed "neck pillow" twice (once in the "front part" and once in the "3rd part"). Are you really taking two of these? I guess if they are the inflatable variety they don't take up much space, but you might reconsider.

I stand corrected about including the wheels in your measurements. I did a Google search and most airlines instruct passengers to include wheels, handles, and sidepockets in the measurements. So yes, there is a possibility that you will be asked to check your bag, but my experience is that this rule is often not strictly enforced.

I have a case that is 21x13x8", and is 23" including wheels and handles. I have schlepped it all over the world to six continents and never been required to check it (except for little commuter planes where I checked it on the tarmac). However, I always put it in the overhead compartment.

My guess is that the airline would probably let you on the plane with your 21" carry-on as long as it doesn't weigh more than 22 pounds, and the total inches (ht+wt+depth) don't exceed 46" (22x16x8). However, it may not fit under the seat.

A 21 inch is NOT going to fit all the way under your seat so you are not going to be able to use it as a foot rest.

Fruits. You can only take fruit you are eating on the plane. The Swiss do NOT want you importing fruit. We won't let you import fruit from Europe back here. So one or two pieces will be plenty. (They won't starve you on the plane!)

Now I don't know how you are packing, but I am pretty sure except for the neck pillows I could get this into an 18 inch. Are you rolling your clothes or what?

I'm missing something, I guess. I'm with BlingBling.
Why not use the 21", it's still pretty small, pack it, check it. It's unlikely even the 18" bag will be allowed as a carry on--there are usually weight restrictions in addition to size limits on overseas flights.
Use a nylon carryon as both a purse, day bag, etc.

Also, since you are bringing extra bags, why don't you just put some stuff in one of them, and bring that on the plane with you?

An 18" suitcase probably won't fit under the seat anyway, so I wouldn't rely on being able to use it as a footrest even if you don't check it.

BTW - this is a minor logistical problem, certainly not something I'd categorize as being in "big trouble". Relax, or you will be so uptight in Europe you won't have any fun.

Have fun,
Karen

Do you need to wear a bra and take two with you? Do you need 5 pairs of socks? Five tank tops? And two towels? You can always take one bra, two tank tops (you are wearing one) and 3 pairs of socks and wash out in the sink when needed. Also, are you taking complete copies of your passport? You can take just one copy of the biographic page and this should be good enough for replacement if needed. Do you have a jacket you can use for warmth and rain? This would eliminate an extra jacket. Also do you need 3 trash bags? I took a carry on to Europe for my first trip last fall and will be going back again this fall. I am already cutting down on my previous list:-)

Sorry, anything that I listed twice was not intentional. I was too uptight to see it correctly.
I don't like wearing closed shoes but I'll have to wear them for a lot of walking. In fact I have SAS sandals that I like but I'm not sure if they are good enough for walking all day. Plz advise.
I'll bring only 1 handtowel. It's very thin and old.
The water, food and fruits are just for eating on the plane.
I'll bring only 1 bra (plus 1 on me)
I was thinking about the mountains in Switzerland when I decided to bring my jacket. It's from Travel Smith and can be folded into a pouch. I guess I should find a way to ditch it.
Too many socks and tank tops? I'll get rid of them.
I will bring only the front part of passport photo copy.
I don't know why glue stick! I read about it somewhere that it's useful to stick info or something to your journal. Ditch that too?
I'm not rolling my clothes. I put them in stuff sacks. Will rolling them help?
None of my tank tops have sleeves. They are coolmax. Do I need sleeves? I planned on using 1 stretchy cardigan. May be I can use the cardigan as my sweater too? Ditch the jacket and just use the rain jacket?
I'll put all the little stuff in my day bag(that'll be my handbag) and put it in the wheelie and use the wheel bag as carry on. Once I'm on the plane I'll take out the day bag.
I'll try again today with all the advise in mind. I'll report to you all if I can do it.
Thank you so much!

I would love to hear how your packing comes out. I always take too much. I am concerned about train travel, not airtravel as I usually ck the larger bag but have difficulty getting it up stairs. Since I have lots of allergies I need to take all my own soaps, lotions, meds, etc. Is 2-3 prs of slacks enough for Paris, Spain and England. I usually take a pr of slideon shoes on the plane as my feet swell and I have had it happen that I couldn't get my regular shoes on.Last yr in Paris it was freezing and cold when I arrived. I bought a large scarf at one of the vendors for

I would love to hear how your packing comes out. I always take too much. I am concerned about train travel, not airtravel as I usually ck the larger bag but have difficulty getting it up stairs. Since I have lots of allergies I need to take all my own soaps, lotions, meds, etc. Is 2-3 prs of slacks enough for Paris, Spain and England. I usually take a pr of slideon shoes on the plane as my feet swell and I have had it happen that I couldn't get my regular shoes on.Last yr in Paris it was freezing and cold when I arrived. I bought a large scarf at one of the vendors for $5 & it kept the wind out. I cant travel without 3 prs of shoes to keep my feet from hurting.I tried to get everything someone else posted or Rick Steve's pack list and I couldnt get it all in. Iwill be gone 6 wks. Appreciate all help. Thanks. Johanna

Being a girl, I noticed you forgot to include such personal items as toothbrush, toothpaste, deoderant, brush, soap, etc. which are not usually provided in hotels. You may want your own shampoo/conditioner as well. Are you planning to take these or perhaps buy them when you get there? Unfortunately, these things take up a lot of room as well as weigh a bit. For the hair towel, you might want to look into getting one of those super absorbent ones made especially for drying hair, unless you think it would be too thick and take up too much room.

As for the sarong, will you be wearing that as a skirt or as a bathing-suit cover up? It likely won't be hot, summer-like conditions over there so perhaps your few pairs of pants may suffice.

Susie, I think you have already made good inroads on your trimming down. Yes, Iwoule trade a couple of tank tops for those with sleeves and lose the jacket for the sake of bulk.

I noticed you are bringing ziplock bags and am therefor assuming that you are using them to eliminate air and bulk at this stage of your packing. Then rolling becomes an optional. Two bras should be plenty (they dry easily)but I am with the poster wo inquired about "personal stuff": its especially hard to find in hostels and, in fact, I am assured by reliable sources gets stolen frequently: bring minis of stuff like that. Bon voyage!

susie, my SAS sandals are jet setters!!!!:):)They are the only sandals I use when i travel to Europe..I always bring with me 2 pairs, differents colors of course, and i alternate them..also i bring SAS walking shoes, I use them in the country, or when the weather is nasty .

For our last trip we puchased "Travel Space Bags" from LL Bean. They cost $15 for two bags (one medium, one large). They are like big ziploc baggies, but you push all the air out of them. Thus your clothes are smooshed really flat. They cut out about half the space. We thought they were great. However, if you are worried about wrinkles, they might not be the greatest.

kismetchimera, I'm planning on leaving my SAS walking shoes behind. Is that a bad idea?

As other posters have pointed out, if you take a carry-on large enough to hold the items you need, it will be too large to fit under the seat and use as a footstool. So if you want a footstool, you will have to also bring a smaller bag and check the larger one, even if it's only 18".

While I'm a fan of packing light and usually only take carry-on luggage, there is such a thing as packing too light. Three bras and five pairs of panties on a 26-day trip are not excessive to me. On a 26-day trip you will end up washing your bras at least 8 times and each pair of underwear 5 times. That's a lot of washing. This can be inconvenient in a hostel and even a bit of nuisance in a private room. Besides, the amount of space you save by ditching a few pair of underwear will be negligible.

I also wouldn't be so quick to take out the jacket. Weather is unpredictable and the times I have thrown in my jacket at the last minute, I was always glad I did. Even though you're not trying to be a fashion plate, being able to alternate between one sweater and one jacket over a 26-day period is not unreasonable. Even though you have a rain jacket, you may not want to wear it when it is sunny, but cool.

I wouldn't take out the walking shoes, either. If your feet hurt, you will be miserable, so a couple pair of walking shoes is a good idea. About the only things I would drop from the list are one or two pairs of socks, the big trash bags (since you have a hat,rain jacket and umbrella I don't see why you need them), the glue stick, and maybe the sarong. In their place I would add a skirt or another pair of pants. But no two people pack alike, so bring what YOU feel comfortable with.

Please try not to let the stress of packing overwhelm you. You have done a good job of packing light, so trust your judgment. Packing is not an exact science and even very experienced travelers sometimes overestimate or underestimate what they will need. Have a wonderful trip!

Susie, I'm only about an inch and a half taller than you, so our circumstances are similar - I too need a footrest. I understand the problem about backs, but a small 14 inch daypack or shoulder bag won't be heavy or big enough to hurt your back, and it works well as a footrest. You will want to take two bags; the second, larger bag will have room in it for reorganizing your stuff after you land (you won't want to carry around neck pillows, etc. while sightseeing.) Be prepared to check that second bag - you will need it to carry a Swiss army knife (trust me on this, you want that knife) and nail scissors; these won't pass security. Also, this way you will easily pass carryon restrictions since you won't need overhead bin space, and the 14 inch bag will easily fit under the seat.

I'm going to second what beachcomber said about changes. After 5 trips abroad I now realize that taking lots of changes (i.e 4 plus what I have on) of tops, socks and undies makes a big difference in comfort and in laundry logistics.

Be aware that the weight of the suitcase rather than exact measurement in inches can be a problem. I had to check my rolling bag that I normally carry-on with British Air last year.

Here's my suggestions and comments for changes to your pack list:

Keep:
3 bras total
sarong
slippers or flipflops (but not both)

Skip:
notebook
gluestick
sticky notes
2 extra bags
umbrella
2 less tank tops
2 less socks
2 towels
personal checks (too hard to cash)

Add:
toiletries, travel-sized
1 extra shoes or sandals
1 tiny spiral notebook

I think you can do it packed in the 18" (but it won't be comfortable under the seat in front of you!) plus the daypack - but use that as your pocketbook (2nd allowable personal piece to carry on the plane).

Do your Visa cards work in the ATM machines? You need a way to get cash, and I'm not sure you'll be able to cash personal checks from home.

A different strategy, which might be less stressful, is go with the 21/23" roller and just plan to check it thru. As long as it's a size and weight you can easily manage getting around in Europe.

You can buy extra socks, umbrella, towels, etc. should you find you them.

oops... should you find you NEED them.

Happy & safe travels! Susan

(Sorry I just can't stop giving advice this morning ;-)

FOOTWEAR!! Shoes/sandals are the single most important thing you can take. Broken in and comfortable. At least two pair so you can trade off.

The other is anything prescription, like medications or glasses.

You can easily buy an extra sweatshirt, umbrella, notebook, etc. most anything else on your pack list... except these two catagories above.

I love reading all the advices. Thank you very much! The more the better.

Yesterday after a few deep breathing, I calmly redid my packing. I accepted the fact that if I need to check a bag, I'll do it. I have a small bag that can be piggybagged on the 18". But I'll have my 18" on board with me for sure. I'm too lazy to lug a bag around with no wheels. I learnt that lesson 15 years ago when I had to run to the airplane with this not too heavy carryon. I thought I'd die! I swore then that I would never have to do that again.

I used the 18 wheeler before. It can be slid under the fron seat.

So here is my new packing List Switzerland&England June 24-July19,2003
I could fit them in the 18" wheeler... very tight though. But the weight was not more than 20 lb. Plz tell me how it looks.

On my body:
Pants
Tank Top
Regular cardigan
Bra
Underwear
Light Fleece Cardigan
Black SAS walking shoes (I hate closed shoes but they are good for walking. and since I have very hard to fit feet I'm thinking about bringing along my SAS sandals too so I can alternate them with the real walking shoes)
Relief Band (for motion sickness. looks like a wrist watch)

In the Money Belt
Passport
Swiss : Plane tickets, Swiss pass, Jungfrau tickets
England: Plane tickets, Haggis Tour, bus pass
2 Visa Cards (they can be used with ATM machine)
emergency cash
Driverys License
Health Insurance info
Youth Hostel Card

In Carry on bag:
1 Towel
2 Pants
3 Tank tops
4 Pairs Panties
2 Bras
2 socks
1 Small Towell
1 Flip Flops (use in shower)
1 Retractable Lock
2 Combination Locks (may be 1)
Ziploc Bags: various sizes
Extra Passport photos and for buy train passes
Photo copies of passport

In Medicine box
Pepto-Bismol
Metamucil capsules
Lactaid 4 (32tablets) boxes = 128 tablets
Medication for Blader infection
Cold Sore cream
Cold Medicine
Advils
Imitrex for migraine
Bandaids
Moleskin
Extra Eye Gel

In Toiletery Bag
Deodorant
Soap
Shampoo
Body Lotion
Face Cream
Nail Clippers
Clothes Line
Sanitary Napkins
Alarm Clock
Batteries for Relief Band and Camera

In Day Bag on the Plane (and on to Zurich for a day)

Fron Part:
Maps
Wet Wipes
Anti-Bacteria Hand Lotion

Inside:
Toilet Paper
Personal Wipe packs
Daily Money
Fruits and Foods
Water Bottle
Tooth Brush&Cap
Tooth Paste
Floss
Shower cap and elastic hair band
Comb
Head Lamp
Sun Block
Hat
Daily Lactaid
Some Advil, Imitrex, PeptoBismol
Nose Spray
Guide Book
Rain Jacket
A few zip lock bags
Sun Glasses
Prescription Glasses

I would dump the toliet paper and either the wet wipes or the anti-bacterial stuff. In spite of all the stuff you will read I have probably needed toliet paper less than 5 times in Europe! I don't understand where this thing comes from. Carry a small package of kleenex. If you really need TP, they sell it there. Also, three locks, what are you locking up?

CarolLA, I've been rethinking about my locks thing. I think I'll just bring the retractable lock (lock the bag when put in hostel's locker) and 1 more combination lock (lock the locker).
By the way, I forgot to mention that my neck pillow is an inflatable one. I need it on a long flight. My flight will be from Thailand.

Hey I think you're doing great! Still I would cut back on all the first aid stuff unless it is something you definitely need everyday (for instance I would buy cold medicine there, if the need arises).

I never go with all the wipes and antibacterials, just a few travel packs of kleenex. But those are all personal choice items & I suppose don't take up too much room.

I'd skip the clotheslines. Do laundry with hotel shampoo in the bathroom sink & hang over a towel rack to dry. And what is the headlamp for? I would substitute a tiny flashlight instead (I always keep one bedside when I'm traveling).

Don't forget your watch!

Suze, the headlamp is a Pretzel lamp. Very small. The band is just a retractable thin string. I use it as a flash light.
I have to admit that I didn't use any personal wipes at all when I went to China and Thailand last year. Used wet wipes only a few times.
I'll stay in hotels in Swiss and hostels in England so I'm not sure about the clothes line. It's a very light and tiny one that you don't need to use clothes pins.
I never wear a watch. I'll bring my travel alarm clock with me. But if I see a good watch that I like while I'm in Thailand I'll wear it.
The only reason I want to take some cold medicine with me was because a few years ago I was as sick as a dog on my transpacific flight and couldn't find any medicine anywhere on board or in Japan where I transited. By the time I got back to the US I couldn't speak. I think I'm just paranoid.

paranoid? or just a careful planner? that kind of stuff, hey whatever gives you comfort and security (and is small~ haha).

i can't imagine traveling without a watch even if you don't wear one at home, see how we're all different! but i don't carry a special travel clock, just use my watch.

i gotta say (having been to Switzerland 4 trips now) if you didn't use all your anticeptic stuff in China & Thailand, I'd be surprised if you use it in Switzerland (the cleanest and most organized place I've ever traveled!).

2 things I thought of that I don't think (?) were on your list: a paperback novel for on the plane & tired evenings and something to sleep in (a very lightweight rob, or just a long tshirt or something... but one you don't wear during the day so it's clean to slip into at night - that's one thing I've skipped in efforts to pack light that I was sorry about).

This has been fun to help. Hope we did (help that is!). susan in seattle

I really like this board. Everyone is so helpful and not thinking that I'm a idiot to seek help. I certainly can pack but I can do better once I get ideas and advices from supportive people here. Thanks a million and love to hear more.
I completely forgot about clean and comfortable clothes to relax in and a light reading book. I guess I'm going to bring another small bag and check it in!

To me, your worries sound like "Lite Packers Gone Wild", minus the Snoop Doggie guy (luckily).

Here's my thinking--Pack what you you think you need, if you can't lift it, cut the lowest priorities until you can.

Then check your baggage, forget about it and have a hell of a good time. If worrying about two versus 3 bras is cause for such concern, what does that say about perspective? Clearly, the "pack light" mantra of this board has gone amok. Don't be so worried and go out there and have a hell of a good time.

JN, I laughed when I read your "Lite Packers Gone Wild" thing. My husband is going to love this. I already insisted that I am going to be a gutsy mama. Now I'm also a lite packer gone wild!

A packet of your usual cold remedy could turn out to be a lifesaver. If you need Pepto Bismol, which I sometimes do, take chewable tablets, not liquid.

Agreed you don't need the toilet paper and all the wipes and antibacterial. I'd say one or two small packs of 10-15 tissues and one tiny bottle of hand antibacterial ought to be plenty. If you get tight on packing space, and you can predict such things, you could even leave out the sanitary napkins and buy them there.

Hello All,

Here is the lite packer gone wild. As I’m preparing for my Germany trip this coming falls I remembered my stressful packing day 2 years ago. So I read my old old thread and really appreciate all the help. I'd like to belatedly report the result of that packing.

It turned out that I could bring the 18" roller bag and a small day pack on board Swiss Air both ways... there and back. However, I felt that the 18" bag was too tight for me. I could fit things in there but barely. It was very hard to repack. I swore I wouldn't use such a small pack again, but last April I travel to Germany, Austria and Czech with my husband and had to use it because he was using my 21/23" roller bag. I had the same feeling using the samll bag... too darn small. I saw people with bigger carryon bags... much much bigger. I was thinking... next time I’ll bring the bigger one. And like you guys said, if I have to check it that’ll be ok. I’ll have my small day pack with me though.

As for the toileteries, I had gone wild on packing light and didn't bring my own personal face care and shampoo and conditioner and soap. I wanted to use the thing that claim you can use it to shampoo your hair, wash your body and face and even brush your teeth and wash your clothes. Well, my hair was so stiff it could stand up, my face broke out in big giant acne all over the whole time. Oh... it was painful and I looked so ugly in all the pictures!

I didn’t use any of the medication I brought. But I felt safe and prepared. I will bring them again. But this time all in their own packs (yep, I took them out of the original packs to save rooms).

It was impossible to wash clothes in hostels. But I was traveling fast everyday in England. So I didn’t have a chance to do any clothes washing.

I didn’t bring any writing material... no space in that little bag. I regret not writing anything down.

The neck pillow was very comfortable. I could sleep quite a bit. But then I left it on the plane!

My SAS sandals stank after a few days in Swiss. I didn’t wear any hose because it was so hot. Anyone remember that year 2003 when it was record breaking hot in Europe? I was there!

Anyway, this next trip I’m deciding what to do... again. Should I use my 21/23” roller bag or Eagle Creek Continental Journey Women’s fit travel pack http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/st...uctId=39166731
that I just bought because I like the color and the fit? I didn’t have problem using my roller bag in Switzerland, Austria, England, Germany or Czech. I used public transportation. There were 2 times that I had to drag it across cobble stone street. It made a lot of noise but the wheels proved to be very good. It was quite easy to get on buses or train or subway. If I use the travel pack it’ll be on my back the whole time. But I’m much stronger now. After I came back for that faithful trip I started hiking and lifting weight. I have no more problem with my back.I'd love to hear any suggestions. Thanks!

One more thing, I put that 18' bag in the overhead bin (by myself!) and use the smaller day pack as my footrest. I could slide the 18" bag underneath the front seat but I didn't feel very comfortable. May be I grew bigger?