Car accident in Spain
 

I posted this message in General Interest, but "Spain" may be a better topic.
We had a car accident driving in Spain. Need advise how to handle it from those who’s been in those shoes. Sorry for lengthy message with lots of details, but they are important.
Rented a car in Madrid from AVIS via AutoEurope. It was my brother who setup this rental. When we came to pick up the car we were told that his credit card rejected the payment and we can’t take any car. Had to call AutoEurope and switch to another credit card. Unfortunately, my brother had only one c/card with him, so we paid with his wife’s c/card. My brother and my husband were listed as drivers (not my brother’s wife).
Refused additional CD insurance.
While driving in old town in Cordoba we were following a line of cars going down a narrow cobblestone street. Suddenly, something hit our car. Apparently, we entered a zone that didn’t allow unauthorized vehicles. Here is the setup so you can imagine it
( we discovered it after accident): there was a sing for Authorized Vehicles on the side of the building, not on the road, there was no red light or any kind of blinking light. There was an electronic device on the left side of the road and controlled the metal stump that
goes up and down. Because we were following other cars and they were authorized to enter the stump went down, and driver didn’t see it. When we were passing it went up and hit our car underneath. The car was damaged badly. We had to call Avis to tow it.
We are very careful travelers and my brother who was driving a car is a very good driver. If you are not aware of such thing it was impossible to see or predict this stump: no sign on the road, no blinking light.
Avis sent a car for repairs, and after countless calls shared an amount it’s charging us: over 5,000 Euros. Still can’t get an itemized bill from them, they can’t fax overseas!!!
My question is: if the credit card on the agreement wasn’t my brother’s but his wife’s would credit card company cover it? It was Visa. How can we make sure that those repairs were necessary if it comes to a point that we have to pay for it? How Cordoba city installs a device that damages cars so badly(and can potentially hurt people) and doesn’t have appropriate signs?
Sorry for all those details, but I hope it may help somebody who has to drive in the old towns.

Just a question ...did you rent a car without an all-risks insurance ? If you did, I can't see what they want to charge you.

You obviously NEED to call the CC folks about this since all you'll get from us is "an" answer and not THE answer. You will have to contact them sooer or later I suppose and you may as well verify if the CC "insurance" is primary or secondary to the renter's own auto policy.

These things are SO complicated and I hope all these people who are always here telling us that their cc took care of everything would SHOW UP right now to reassure you.

This is one reason I always spend the money for additional insurance probably foolishly thinking it makes things easier but I'm probably wrong.

Good luck...please CALL the cc folks.

Where has Patrick been lately?

Do call your CC and Insurance companies.

Can someone top Patrick's "accident" thread?

I think by this time Patrick has started his traveling. They were leaving some time in May as I recall and going to San Francisco and a couple of other places on the west coast. They are also off for a month or three to Europe so don't know if they are going back home before heading off the Europe or just continuing on. Anyway, I don't think he's home right now.

"Patrick" went to NYC and then to Europe. A two month trip. The Westcoast/SF trip is in August. Lucky them, sigh!!

You can check with the credit card company, but the short answer is that you are probably not covered for the accident and you would have no claim against the city of Cordoba. You'll find the same devices used throughout Spain and France.

You can check out the VISA Card Benefits page to see what is covered since you refused the CDW.

http://usa.visa.com/personal/cards/b...v_sym_benefits

The following is from the VISA Benefits page:

What is this benefit?
When certain terms and conditions are met, the Visa Auto Rental Collision Damage Waiver benefit ("Auto Rental CDW") provides—at no additional charge—reimbursement for damage due to collision or theft up to the actual cash value of most rental vehicles. In your country of residence, this benefit is supplemental to, and excess of, any valid and collectible insurance from any other source.

Who is eligible?
You are eligible only if you are a valid cardholder whose name is embossed on an eligible U.S.-issued Visa card. Only you as the primary renter of the vehicle and any additional drivers permitted by the auto rental agreement are covered.

What is covered?
Subject to the terms and conditions in this Guide to Benefit, Visa Auto Rental CDW reimburses you for covered damage or theft to a rental vehicle while it is your responsibility as well as valid administrative and loss-of-use charges imposed by the auto rental company and reasonable towing charges. Only vehicle rental periods that neither exceed nor are intended to exceed fifteen (15) consecutive days within your country of residence or thirty-one (31) consecutive days outside your country of residence are covered.

The benefit provides reimbursement up to the actual cash value of the vehicle as it was originally manufactured. Most private passenger automobiles, minivans, and sport utility vehicles are eligible, but some restrictions may apply. Please contact the Benefit Administrator to inquire about a specific vehicle.

Within your country of residence, this benefit supplements, and applies excess of, any valid and collectible insurance or reimbursement from any source. This means that, subject to the terms and conditions of this Guide to Benefit, Visa Auto Rental CDW applies to losses or expenses that are not covered by insurance or reimbursement.

My question re: using credit card for insurance is this: you unfortunately have an accident. Are you charged immediately on your credit card for damages? What if you total a vehicle, not many people have a credit limit on a credit card to pay for a car.

I'm asking because we are going to Germany, Austria and Venice late September until early October. My husband and I have been having discussions on this for some time now.

Thanks

what an unfortunate mishap. It should be illegal to create such an aggressive solution to a simple problem.
(for example.. like the exaggerated speed bumps everywhere)

i think you should take it up with the city of cordoba also. you would be surprised at how many people sue the city halls now in spain for tripping in holes in sidewalks, etc.

(and they win!)-

are you sure it was the city, or a private entrance somewhere?

i would get a bilingual lawyer. i wouldn't doubt you have a case. it may take a long time to collect, and you might have to come back.. ( how sad)..
but might be worth pursuing if you get less than satisfactory results with your inquiries.

I remember our poster's accident and it was indeed a long process, however the credit card company eventually paid in full. If I am not mistaken he disputed the charge so he wouldn't have to pay the bill until the check came through from the insurance.

You said they will not fax a receipt overseas. Why not mail a copy, or better yet scan it and email it to you?

Did you report this to the credit card company promptly? If not, call them immediately.

I'm sorry this happened, please keep us posted and good luck.

Here's the other thread, thanks for topping it, starrsville.

http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34700984

I'm afraid one of the VERY telling sentences from that Visa benefits addition is: this benefit is supplemental to, and excess of, any valid and collectible insurance from any other source.

That could very well mean that this is secondary to any insurance collectable from the driver's personal auto liability insurance policy.

First, I am so sorry to hear about your troubles.

This could be messy, for several reasons. You definitely need to talk to the credit card company, not to mention AutoEurope. Depending on the specific type of rental your brother arranged through Autoeurope, you might (I stress might) be on the hook only for the 'excess' to the CDW which is generally 1000 euro or less. Okay, that's a lot of money, but it's not as bad as 5000 euro.

In addition, Autoeurope might try to help you verify that the repairs were necessary and the costs accurately estimated, in the event that your sister-in-law's CC company bails on you and won't do this for you. (At the very least, it can't hurt to ask.)

I'm not clear as to why your brother's card was rejected for payment. What kind of deposit was Avis trying to run on the card at the time of pickup - was it so large as to exceed the credit limit on your brother's card? If so, then assuming your brother's card wasn't already carrying a large balance, then it sounds like Avis wanted a very big deposit - which sometimes rental firms do when the renter refuses all CDW (not just the excess or superCDW) from the rental firm.

I'm also not clear on how many cards you ultimately used in respect of this contract - just one or more than one? We rented a car in Spain this year from Europcar through Autoeurope. On the day of pickup, I made my husband go back to the office and have them redo the contract using the same credit card we'd used to pay Autoeurope for the prepaid portion of the car rental - husband had accidentally used another card for the purposes of signing out the car. I wanted everything on one card, since many CC insurance policies stipulate that the ENTIRE cost of the rental be charged to the card, in order to ensure insurance coverage.

Also, as already pointed out, for purposes of insurance, the principal driver/renter of the car (and the party signing the contract on signout) is supposed to be the card holder. Yet your sister-in-law/brother's wife didn't have her name anywhere on the contract? This might be a problem. Again, you need to talk to the proper authorities - I'm just giving you my best opinion.

If by some lucky chance you are covered despite all, I remember Patrick's case and how his card carried a huge repair balance for weeks, but in the end his card covered everything.

Regarding the lack of signage or perceived lack of same, I know zip about Spanish law, but my guess is that it would take a court fight to try to get the operators of the barrier to pay up. Unfortunately I doubt this would be either an easy or an inexpensive option.

Again, I'm very sorry to hear of this. Sadly, it points once again to the need to read and understand the fine print of things very carefully.

I had an accident in Ireland last summer that was covered by my MBNA platinum card and can address some of your issues.

1) The rental was on my credit card and my sister was driving. Both our names were on the rental agreement.
2) I called the credit card company shortly after returning home and they sent me all the necessary paperwork and told me they would follow-up with the rental car company to get all documentation
3) my credit card was charged immediately for the full amount; I had received no documentation from the rental compnay and was unable to get through to them.
4) I remember reading all the small print following the accident and becoming very worried that they wouldn't cover the accident--the fact that you were on an unauthorized road might be issue. You should try to download Visa's coverage terms
5) It took many months for the rental card company to turn in the documentation. I stayed in touch with the credit card and they reported they had contacted them a minimum of 10 times. I ended up emailing customer service and 2 days later all the paperwork, including scanned documents, was emailed to me and I forwarded onto the CC company.
6) Then there was a final sticking point--they wanted copies of my auto insurance policy to see if I was covered in Ireland. As it turned out, I'm not covered for out of country accidents. Once I provided that information, I received a reimbursement check a short time later.

I think you need to be contact the credit card company ASAP and begin the process. They need to review all the paperwork before they even decide if they will cover the cost. Based on my experience, the rental company took their sweet time and was the major hangup in the whole process. Be prepared for alot of aggravation!

Good luck

I agree with everyone who says talk to a supervisor at your cc company and insurance company. However, I will offer some ideas based on our personal experience.

In general US auto insurance does not cover a driver overseas. Therefore it should not kick in as primary. Of course you might have a different policy but I believe that is an exception.

Second, if the driver was listed on the rental agreement it should be ok. Problems come up when drivers are not listed. Of course it might depend on how your brother and his wife have their cards arranged, but the rental agreement was not in violation.

Third, you are suppose to notify your cc immediately if damage occurs, so I would suggest phoning them now, if you haven't. Our ccs have always handled claims with relatively little issues. You do have to have documentation and fill out forms, but in general ours have always taken up the contesting of fees and made our end of the process pretty simple. Best of luck to you!

Kiramoli- I answered on the other thread, but I have extgracted and broken down the information provided.

Car is on sister in law's Visa crediit card.

Brother and husband listed as drivers (not CC owner)

No CD insurance.

Driver is at fault for the accident, which involved an inanimate object owned and operated by the city of Córdoba.

The car was damaged badly and had to be towed

over 5,000€ in damages.

Have not seen itemized bill.

Will the credit card (Visa) cover the driver if it is not the same as the name on the account (it is a spouse)?

How can we make sure that those repairs were necessary if it comes to a point that we have to pay for it?

How Cordoba city installs a device that damages cars so badly(and can potentially hurt people) and doesn’t have appropriate signs?

Of your three questions, the only relevant one is in regards to the CC. Avis will have to supply you with an itemized bill in case you have to pay for the whole thing or in case you are somehow covered by Visa. Per the repairs, the car company can probably justify them all by showing the before and after reports of your rental. You should request those things because if they tried to fix something that was already listed as a problem, you can point that out and get it stricken.

Per the city of Córdoba, there is nothing to say except that putting signs on a wall is common practice. Actually, if you damaged the device, you are at fault and the city could hold you responsible, so if you don't hear from them, that is really lucky.

Good luck and as I said before, if you write this to the Ombudsman at Condé Nast Traveler Magazine, you might get their help.

Thank you for sharing your opinions.
How to contact Ombudsman at Condé Nast Traveler Magazine?

Go to their website and see if they offer "ombudsman" submissions. If you go pick up an issue and find it inside, the details are there. This really sounds like a job for him.

re: contacting Conde Nast Traveler Ombudsman -- was just reading the magazine, so here is the info:

Write to them w/ the problem and "include documentation and any relevant photographs." Address is 4 Times Square, NY NY 10036.

Must be typed and include daytime phone#. Submissions not returned, may be published, etc etc.

NO email submissions!

Also mentions that they get lots of these and can't respond to all, etc.
Good luck.

kiramoli, as a long-time reader of the Ombudsman I don't think you're there yet. You need to get some answers and figure things out. The Ombudsman at CN generally handles problems and at this point, from what I read here, you have questions with very few specifics. Use your time to talk to the cc co. and do as they advise, the parties should find out if the cc will cover the damage first.