Can't figure out CDG
 

I've taken several flights on AF, connecting through CDG to get to Italy, Spain, etc. because I like the nonstop SFO-CDG leg.

AF as everyone knows schedules some really aggressive connections, especially on the return leg and I got bit on that last March on a return from BCN where I ended up stranded in Paris. Then in May, on a return trip from FLR, I made sure to make my connecting CDG-SFO flight but my checked bad didn't make it and AF delivered it the next day. No big deal for me.

Besides the aggressive connection times, the bigger problem is CDG's constant reconfiguration of security protocols and construction. Obviously some of the security issues are driven by outside events.

But CDG seems unpredictable when it comes to trying to figure out how to make your way from one terminal to the next.

Last March, the problem was waiting for buses to get between terminals. In May, it seemed to have improved greatly as I was able to walk between terminals without taking any buses. So I figured they'd progressed in their construction and I could expect to make my way between connections without being dependent on ridiculous airport configurations.

Well I just flew SFO-CDG-ZRH and GVA-CDG-SFO. I had no concerns about the outbound leg and between the GVA-CDG and CDG-SFO leg, I had 90 minutes so I thought I was safe. Well I did make it but just barely.

In the outbound, we land near 2E and we have to go down into the tarmac (another inconsistency, you can never tell whether your plane is going to the gate or be taxing all over the place and ending up in the boondocks, where you will have to be bused to the gate), get bused into 2E. I never had to go through passport control and nobody ever takes the landing card I completed for the EU. I take the bus to get to 2F for my connecting flight and it takes a good 10-15 minutes since all other terminals come between 2E and 2F. But I made the connecting flight, although with very little time.

On the return leg, we land from GVA at 2F and I'm able to get to 2E by going down, taking the conveyor belt, then going back up. Passport control and then a security check.

Then we wind though a lot of corridors and back down and we're herded into a bus again. To get to gate E82, which appears to be part of some annext to Terminal 2E, we wind through runways where the bus is navigating through intersections waiting for airplanes, some trucks, some luggage transporters and other service vehicles. It is about 10 minutes.

By the time we get into the annex building, the flight is starting to board. In all, just over 30 minutes since deplaning from the first flight to get to the gate of my connecting flight.

Then after scanning boarding passes, we're held at the door. They are letting like 10 people go outside at a time (yes we go out to the tarmac again for a transcontinental flight), watching to see that the last are up the ladder into the plane. It's about a 100 meter hike where we have to cross some other service vehicle roadway.

The upshot of all this is each time you go THROUGH CDG, they have some new setup which is impossible to predict. Maybe that is done for security reasons and we should be grateful.

But it makes planning trips almost impossible. I like the nonstop flight to Europe so maybe it's time to look at KLM and AMS rather than AF and CDG (it would have to be Skyteam to accumulate Skymiles).

So am I the last holdout on CDG?

Well said. It's the unpredictability that makes it so bad. One traveler can post here saying how easy it is, while another's experience can be horrible.

Such thing doesn't happen at places like AMS.

It has been said many times that if you're flying direct to Paris, you're fine, but if you're connecting in Paris CDG, well, good luck! If I'm going anywhere that requires a connection in Europe, I'd try for the Amsterdam connection, and try to avoid the CDG connection.

They dont change the way things work every time. It works the same every time. It just depends on if you are going shengen to shengen, shengen to international or shengen to international. Each type of connection has a different method. It also depends on what terminal and if your plane has a jetway or bus. Air France gives you a very detailed guide on connecting flights when you connect at CDG and it is all fairly clearly explained.

I do agree that the buses and different connection methods can seem confusing. This will improve in 2008 with the full reopening of terminal 2E , the completion of renovations on terminal 1 as well as the completetion of a tram that will connect all terminals.

MorganB - Sometimes you get a gate at 2E, sometimes you get a bus. Someone here that says "Oh, my 1-hour connection at CDG is so easy" because he gets a gate, means nothing to one that has the same connection but has to bussed in. Even though they fly the same routes, using the same terminal.

And last time I flew into CDG on AF, we were supposed to get into 2E, but we actually pulled into 2F, with no announcement made (at least not in English).

don´t count on gettimg "miles" from your skyteam partner all the time...

my last four flights on AF at great fares turns out have given me NOTHING.

They have a policy for certain fares not to give delta share code points AT ALL.

sob..sob.

This is getting off-topic, but if one cares about FF miles and elite-qualifications, one <b>must absolutely</b> understand fare classes and find out which class earns how much in what program before booking.

I've always been flying International to Schengen into CDG and then connecting to a Schengen to Schengen flight.

But the last 3 times, it's been a different path each time. What is so bad is that 2E and 2F are adjacent to each other and clearly, sometimes you're able to walk between them and other times you aren't.

Also note the inconsistencies in checking passports. One time I got bumped, one of the windows was manned by this woman who was laughing and taking her time while there was a queue of over 50 people.

Some of these convoluted paths makes you wonder, with all these people who keep checking your boarding passes and passports, herding you through buses, whether it's just some way to keep all these people busy and employed.

Hi wc,

I think the best way to navigate CDG is to arrange for transfer time of about 2 hr or more.

((I))

Why did you expect to go through immigration at CDG if you were flying to Zurich?

I have before when I connected through CDG on the way to Spain or Italy.

Maybe because Switzerland is Schengen but not EU, there's no immigration?

I didn't go through much when I landed in ZRH either.

I don't think Switzerland is officially part of the Schengen common travel area yet. They've signed and ratified the treaty, but hasn't implemented it.

Last time I went through CDG for a connection to Nice we along with everyone else from two flights were met by a security check, half way up the stairs in the stairwell leading from the bus into the terminal.(we had been dropped off on the tarmac)

We then had to go through the regular security check again in the terminal itself. We did not make the flight.

I posted this at Flyertalk and there's some informative replies there.

Supposedly you have some choice on making the way between halls of Terminal 2.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showt...45#post7158245

intrigued by your header..Don't try to figure out CDG..NO one can!

I'm a little rattled by this post. We're scheduled to connect through CDG to Turkey this summer with only a 90-minute layover. Will we have to go through passport and immigration control in Paris since Turkey is not EU?

Weadles - Turkey is not in the Schengen common travel area, so you don't go through immigration. And no customs either.

Thanks, rkkwan!

Out of curiousity, are you a travel agent? You seem very knowledgeable about the travel business.

Weadles - No. Just an independent traveler. I also help my parents and some relatives arrange their trips.

rkkwan,

That's funny. I do the same thing- arrange most of the trips for family and friends. Anyway, thanks for the excellent advice on transiting CDG.

There are 2 peninsulas at 2F, one for Schengen and one for non-Schengen flights. ZRH is non-Schengen so there's no passport control between 2E and non-Schengen 2F if you choose to take the shuttle transfer.

The E80's gates are in the remote boarding area so you need to take a bus to your gate. The E70's gates are at the terminal, but I think you must bus from the gate to the aircraft. It's not going to get any better until the reconstruction of 2E is completed.

With the exception of Air France moving US flights to 2E last year, there really haven't been any recent major changes in connection procedures at CDG terminal 2.

That's the thing I'm just following the Correspondance signs and sometimes, it takes you to the blasted shuttle busses and other times, you're able to walk between the terminals.

I recently took a flight on air france from boston to cdg then connecting on to venice. We (2 couples) had a little over an hour between flights to change terminals. I have to admit I was sweating it out after reading many of the postings here. We actually arrived early and I was feeling pretty good about that. At customs, it's true what they say- 1 line for foreigners and 2 for EU people. It did go relatively quick though and we headed for the shuttle bus to take us to the next terminal and were able to get on with no waiting. Man, this is a big airport! We rode for awhile but finally got to our terminal with a little over 1/2 hour to go-still felt comfortable that we would make the plane. Then I saw the 2 security lines with tons of people lined up. I think this is their biggest problem-need more security lines. We waited and waited-finally I went up to an official as it was 7:15 am and the plane due to leave 7:25am and he let us come to the of line. When we got to gate, there was no rush, as they were holding plane for the other passengers stuck in the line and we never even took off til 7:45am. On the way home-this time from Florence to CDG there was a fog delay at CDG so we were unable to take off. I knew there was no way we would be landing before our plane was scheduled to depart for Boston, but as we prepared to land at CDG, a stewardess anounced our names and told everyone to let us off the plane 1st. As we got off the plane there was a van on the tarmac and it took us to our terminal and sent us through a private security gate and right to our gate and on the plane which waited for us. Very nice!

Yes a much better experience for my MAD-CDG-SFO flight just today.

First, plane from MAD took off about 15 minutes later. Pilot said something about how they don't let planes take off from MAD until at least 7:30 so we delayed from the scheduled 7:15 departure.

Flight time was suppose to be 1:20 according to the pilot so I thought we'd land at 9:00 rather than the scheduled 9:20. My CDG-SFO flight is scheduled for takeoff at 10:15 but in practice, this once daily flight usually leaves about 30 minutes later.

Well we didn't touch ground until 9:20 and we taxied for awhile. Got off the plane a bit after 9:30. On the tarmac were several AF employees with signs for various connections.

They took us in small vans directly to the annex (my gate was E85). Contrast that to my previous trip, which was to go through 2F, winding through several corridors and then taking a long, long bus ride to finally make it out to the same gate, and then real slow loading.

They had passport control and security checkpoint at the new annex now and the queue was nonexistent.

Still got to the gate at about 9:45 and they were loading. Didn't have time for the shops but they were actually open, in contrast to back in early Feb.

AF084 took off about 10:45, 15 minutes later than scheduled, as the plane loaded for a long time. But I was on board early and able to relax, no rushing or sweating through a maze of corridors and a long bus ride.

Now, I don't know if they did the direct shuttle rides because the MAD-CDG flight was slightly late (10-15) minutes and my connection time was only about an hour. Or if they're planning to do this regularly. Hopefully the latter.

On my outbound flight, they gave me a little note apologizing if I would have to take buses between terminals at CDG. So AF at least appears to recognize the problem.

Oh and having status was great at SFO, MAD and CDG (only for the return flight) because of the early boarding.

Just an update, I flew through CDG from VCE in May and it was okay, again, they picked us off the VCE-CDG flight and drove us directly to the 2E annex.

Then I flew NCE-CDG-SFO a last week.

I got to NCE very early and they did touch us down about 2 hours before the CDG-SFO flight.

However, I hiked like a mile to get from 2D to 2E, going through a long queue for passport and then security. Then the route led to a bus transfer to get out to the 2E annex where E80 was my gate.

They have shops out there but they don't give you time before you have to board.

But I was able to spend about 20-30 minutes in the AF lounge there before boarding.

Looks like they've removed the security checkpoint at the 2E annex? Back in March and May, they drove me directly to the annex where I went through security there.

I would hate to have to return to the main terminal to go through security and then take a long bus ride out to the annex.

Oh and the work they put into the annex, it doesn't look like a temporary thing, as I thought it might be. That means bus rides are a permanent feature of flights from 2E?

The &quot;annex&quot; you're calling is the S3 satellite concourse. It's a large concourse to the east of the current 2E and 2F terminals, and is definitely permanent.

There are still work being done, and in the future, all AF flights will move to the 2E/2F/S3 complex, and there will be automatic trains (LISA) between both 2E and 2F to S3. A US-CDG-Schengen transfer will likely be just S3 to 2F. No more walking to/from 2D.

And in the long term plan, there's still another satellite concourse to the east of S3, I believe called S4.

If wco81's flight left from E80, that's still in the remote boarding area (Satellite H). The gates in S3 are numbered E50's through E70's. And I think they changed the gate numbers at 2E main terminal to E90's.