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Can I use a harness on my toddler in Italy ?

Can I use a harness on my toddler in Italy ?

Aug 22nd, 2002, 02:05 AM
  #41  
Alice Twain
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Beth:

"Deviant child thieves" and molesters should not be the main concer for a responsible parent. Sure, you have a faraway possility to see your child molested or kidnapped or something like that, but this is by no mean the main riscìk for a child. A 2 years old will far more likely get lost in a crowd and catch a good scare or even get tramped by the crowd, or wander off to the street and risk getting run over by a car. These far less impressive, far more down-to-earth risks should also be the first concers of a responsible parent. As for maniacs and the such, as few a they are, if you will ever happen to meet one holding your child's had will not stop them, no more than using a harness or a stroller. But it is really very unlikely that you will ever meet one of such lunatics: they may be in the tv news more often than simpler, plainer car accidents, but they are far, far fewer.
 
Aug 22nd, 2002, 04:09 AM
  #42  
Another
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Oh Alice, you don't know what you are talking about!
Child molesters are definitely a concern for all parents! How many children have been walked out of malls and shops right under their parents noses and never been seen again? How many children disappear from their own homes? Just one makes it a concern to everyone.
If you feel like it is making your child safer to be on a harness, then DO IT! Whatever it takes to keep our children safe and out of harms way, is GOOD!
 
Aug 22nd, 2002, 04:30 AM
  #43  
xxx
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Hey Another Mother,

Chill out a little bit. You need to read more closely.

Alice never said "don't be concerned about child molesters." She said the sad truth is far more children are harmed accidently or go missing while in the possession of their loving and responsible parents. And that using a harness in big crowds on busy streets may mitigate some of the risk.
 
Aug 22nd, 2002, 05:40 AM
  #44  
Bob Brown
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Is jerking a child around by the arm, nearly dislocating the poor child's shoulder, a kind thing to do? Or is it compassionate to drag a child along the sidewalk kicking and screaming? Heck no.

What is wrong with a harness? The child can investigate what is around him or her and the parent knows where the child is.

From the time he was 1 year old, when he could walk, to 5+ years of age, my son was a climber and an explorer with absolutely no judgement of anything dangerous. His credo was go, go, go. And off he went on frequent occasion with Dad or Mom in hot pursuit.

There was no way I or my wife was going to keep him in his stroller without a roll of tape to bind him to the seat.
When he was less than 2, he escaped for 30 seconds at the National Gallery of Art and climbed into the fountain in the rotunda before I could catch up to him. The place was about empty that day, and the grandfatherly guard let him play on the edge for a while.

Put him in a grocery cart and you had to hold him in the cart with one hand and take groceries off the shelf with the other. Otherwise he would escape and be wandering around the store doing his own shopping.

The end result was that we either took away his freedom totally or exposed him to undue risks. And believe me by the time he was 4, he was quite an armfull to carry.

I increased my shirt size by half an inch in the collar and over an inch in the sleeves just from the beefed up shoulders I got from lugging him around to keep him from wandering off or, worse still, wandering into traffic.

We could not even keep him in our yard, which was fenced, even though I tied the gates shut. He would climb over and go. So we either watched him like a hawk all time he was outside, which meant one of us could get nothing done other than child chasing, or we kept him in the house, which meant double key locks. (He figured out the deadbolt at age 1 and half.)

So the point is, what is wrong with a harness? It is a gentler, kinder way of child control that is easier on parent and child than arm jerking and complete denial of freedom.

 
Aug 22nd, 2002, 06:38 AM
  #45  
anothermom
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NO-xxx-
Alice said that " "Deviant child thieves" and molesters should not be the main concer for a responsible parent. Sure, you have a faraway possility to see your child molested or kidnapped or something like that, but this is by no mean the main riscìk for a child"-
And please do not tell me or anyone else to "chill out", that is insulting and condescending.
 
Aug 22nd, 2002, 06:45 AM
  #46  
Alice Twain
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Another:

Children moleesters are there, but they should not be the _mian_ concern for a parent. They are there, they are few and far between, they are dangerous but uncommon. Children do disappera from home etc., just like the two girls in England who were recently illed, but the number of children who are run over by car, who get lost (and scared) in a crowd, who lean out of the window and fall to the ground, who find nice yellow and green jelly beans on mom's night table and eat them, who find a nice bottle in the toilet and drink from it is far larger, incredibly larger. Shld a parent be also concerned with lunatics? Yes, but not as much as about cars and crowds. It is a concern, but, alas, a little concern, while cars are a HUGE concern.
 
Aug 22nd, 2002, 07:40 AM
  #47  
MOM
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Hello again. What a lively discussion! And please let's stick to the topic at hand - I do not even want to think about kidnapping and child molesters. Just the typical safety issues as some of you brought up. And yes, I am going to my sister-in-law's wedding (this is an important family occasion) so my 2 year old who we waited over 10 years for, is coming). I realize I would have a "better" time of it if I left him home, but to be fair, we are joining 10 people on my husband's side from Canada as well as my mother so I am more concerned about the times when we are out and about and he is not being looked after at my relatives home or hotels (by Nonna). I have definately decided that :
Plan A: use the stroller
Plan B: use the harness/wrist harness
In certain situations, we will definately leave him with my mother-in-law but when we can't, I want to know he is safe. Thanks to all of you for giving me your points of view, it has really helped me decide.
On those backpacks, is it worth it to take one (or buy one there?)? He is over 30 pounds. I am thinking of the Amalfi Coast with all the stairs and hills.... Thanks!
 
Aug 22nd, 2002, 07:46 AM
  #48  
nigel
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Alice, you obviously do not live in the US.
 
Aug 22nd, 2002, 08:24 AM
  #49  
xxx
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Hello MOM,

Does your 2 year old do well in the backpack now? If not, I'd find out her tolerance level before you haul it to Europe and back. Our daughter wouldn't go near it after she got mobile and turned into the anti-christ whenever it was brought out of the closet.

We used the wrist thingy and stroller when we went to Europe. We also adopted an alternating strategy. I would tour the stately home while my husband stayed outside with the kid watching her pick up stones and leaves. He'd chose the next sight to visit and I'd stay with my daughter. You see half as much but it avoided the inevitable toddler meltdown as you approach the one most important thing you want to experience. And it sounds like you have other family members to share in your daughter's boundless energy.

Have a fantastic time!

And uh, Nigel, I think it's pretty clear that Alice lives in Europe, probably Italy.
 
Aug 22nd, 2002, 08:42 AM
  #50  
nigel
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Why Italy? Because of the bad drivers? (no offense, Italy)
Or are children so safe there?
 
Aug 22nd, 2002, 09:50 AM
  #51  
xxx
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1) Because she has spoken articulately about the country and culture on this thread and others, and 2) the "it" extension on her email address.

I could be wrong. What was that cartoon from the New Yorker magazine? "On the internet, know one knows that you're a dog." But I think Alice is the real thing.

cheers!
 
Aug 22nd, 2002, 10:02 AM
  #52  
Doggie
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Mom,

I certainly hope your 2 year old really appreciates all of the sites in Italy that you will be going to. I'm sure he will have many happy memories of the trip.

My other hope is that while encased in the "harness", he doesnt bark.

Doggie
 
Aug 22nd, 2002, 10:18 AM
  #53  
John B.
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Great! This thread now has the beginnings of a good "How Much Should I Tip the Pilot" thread.
 
Aug 22nd, 2002, 10:25 AM
  #54  
Alice Twain
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Nigel:

No, I do not live in the Us, I am italian and I live in italy, this means that I live in a country as much stupidly concerned with lunatics as the Us. The onluy difference between the us and Italy is that in the Us lunatics have far more opportunities to lay their hands of guns than in Italy. But the fact that there is much talk about child molesters on Tv and on newspaper does not mean anything: it is just one more case of mass delusion, not because such people do not exist but because of the very nature of mass media stories with some grime and glamour are on the first pages while common stories hardly get any coverage. If a man bites the dog's ear he will end up in the newspapers, but this does not mean that there are more such bites than the common, boring canine bites on human shins. Checking on numbers, you would see two things: in first place that the real dangers to a child's welfare are not due to molesters, they are due to far more trival things such as, as I said before, medicines left on a table or unlocked windows; secondly you woudl see that considering only abuses, the most common kind of abuser is not a stranger but a parent or relative.
 
Aug 22nd, 2002, 10:55 AM
  #55  
CalGAl
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I have tried to stay out of this, but to read Alice saying that the kidnapping and molesting in the news is all a delusion is unfortunately HER delusion. How wonderful if the grieving parents here in the USA and even here in the state that I live in, could be told everything is ok, it was all a delusion.
Alice, my advice is stick to news in Italy and don't try to compare it with what is going on in the US.
And maybe it would help if you read American and British newspapers, you might get some sort of Reality check before you go online and reveal your ignorance.
 
Aug 22nd, 2002, 03:31 PM
  #56  
cassie
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Hey Cal Gal-
I live in this country, read the newspaper, and watch the news on a daily basis. Whether you like it or not, Alice is right. Kidnapping is this years "shark attacks"- media propaganda. Yes kidnapping truly happens, and my heart goes out to those poor parents and children, but you are statistically higher to have a child hurt/killed in their own home as a result of their parents/caregivers lack of safety awareness (poisonings, electrocutions, drownings, dog attacks).
And as far as sexual molestation, again it is statistically proven that more children are molested in THEIR OWN HOME by a FRIEND or FAMILY MEMBER than by a stranger.

Now just whose ignorance has been revealed?
LA LA land is indeed where you are living.

BTW Alice- Please continue posting. You have been invaluable with information and helpful hints for my upcoming trip to Italy.
 
Aug 22nd, 2002, 03:40 PM
  #57  
CalGal
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OK Cassie,
Every 37 seconds a child is kidnapped in the United States.
36% of the victims of auto accidents are children in a year.
Domestic violence injuries to children are more common than auto injuries.
Let's not try to make this a Who Is Smarter contest, living in California is not a sign of smarts or ignorance. Just as someone like yourself, could possibly be intelligent, I would not think to judge you merely by one ignorant post.
 
Aug 22nd, 2002, 04:06 PM
  #58  
Maths Whizz
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CalGal, beofre you continue with your scare tactics you do realise don't you that your assertion that a child is kidnapped every 37 secs equates to a grand total of 852 thousand children a year ((60s * 60min * 24 hr * 365 d)/37)....I don't think the US has degenerated into such a cesspool of crime to that extent just yet!!
 
Aug 22nd, 2002, 04:09 PM
  #59  
The RealThreat
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Mom:

There are loads of priests in Italy, and they're walking around on the streets all the time. Be sure to give a real hard yank on that leash if you see one come into sight.
 
Aug 22nd, 2002, 04:37 PM
  #60  
xxx
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Go Cassie! What a fine job of restating Alice's posts.

CalGal has been watching too much Larry King.
 

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