Can anyone give any reasons to a clueless spurs fan as to why he should go to Donetsk in the Ukraine. 'cos I'm struggling.
 

The mighty Spurs have drawn Shaktar Donetsk in the Euro boondoggle.

Now I normally relish the opportunity to travel abroad with spurs, soak up the local culture and cuisine and throw patio furniture at the locals. However I am wavering on this one.

Firstly it's stupidly spendy - there aren't any direct flights. Everything goes through Russia - and nothing cheap comes out of Russia. The official day trip is £350 - and that's about as cheap as I have seen. But for that it's just a trip from the airport to the ground and back - you see nothying of the area and I'm not minted enough to pay £350 to watch Darren Bent hoof the ball into the stands.

Also I am told that Donetsk makes Middlesbrough look like St Tropez. Is it really that grim? HAs anyone been? Is there anything to do? Anything at all?

I am going to need a lot of talking into this one.

Nothing that is meant to be is complicated.

Glad to clear that out for you....:-D

I've not been there, but Mrs F and I have spent more of the past 15 years in de-industrialised provincial Eastern Europe cities than anyone should have to.

If you've not been to one, it'll certainly be good for your soul - and actually quite interesting. Capitals like Bucharest, Kiev and even Minsk (well, maybe not Minsk now I think about it) have conventional tourist stuff: the sheer horror of mile after mile of not yet closed but not operating either steel mills is all out in the sticks. Donetsk is a dead steel town, if I remember rightly.

Most got smashed by the Nazis, then rebuilt appallingly by the Commies, then left to fester for the past 15-20 years. They often have interesting survivals - sometimes from the 19th century (a lot of Tsarist-era Tashkent, for example, is really beautiful and the Royal Palace at Iasi looks just like the St Pancras hotel), and almost always a few semi-useful institutions from Stalin's day. Wedding-cake style Palaces of Culture, for example. And then there's Ceasescu Chic: the 70s and 80s stuff that looks like something out of a Dan Dare strip.

I doubt Donetsk is on anyone's list of must-sees. But post industrial nothingness won't last forever, and sooner or later the place will be Liverpooled. See it before they make it a UNESCO Heritage site, I say. http://donetskplus.com

Perhaps you could turn it into a goodwill tour and take the locals some jellied eels.

Blimey if I'm paying a monkey for something thats "for the good of my soul" I want a papal indulgence thrown in.

There is also the issue of violence. I hear that Donestsk have some "handy" fans that would jump at he chance to have a go at an English club (we still have the reputation - even if it's no longer deserved) .

I've read the wikipedia thingy on the place and it's almost comically grim. It has 125 slag heaps. This is listed as a good thing.

There's a webcam (why?):

http://webcams.ukrtelecom.ua/

To get gas.

Well, it could be your last chance to follow Spurs abroad...

Nah. God bless the League Cup!

To say you've been there?

I've been to Chisnau in Moldova - I've *done* post soviet decline.

(This was the worst place I have ever been to. Even Borat would balk at it)

If it's the worst, you really, really need to see Donetsk.

In the part of Moldavia (not Moldova) we travel to regularly they look on Chisinau as - well a certain sort of American looks to Paris. Cisdniestrian Moldova never had that much industry to rust away. Round Barlad, Chisinau is a fabled land of beauteous buildings, abundant wine and clement weather.

Strewth!

I thought Chisinau looked a lot more rural than urban, when the bus from Odessa pulled into the bus station I wasn't sure I'd actually arrived. It did have about the worst roads I've seen anywhere.

Donetsk sounds pretty bad, but I really enjoyed other places I went to in Crimea and Western Ukraine. Maybe you could get a cheap flight into Kiev (look at wizzair), spend some time there, and take a night train to Donetsk?

hi CW,

why not just go to Middlesborough and watch the match on the box?

save the money for when they get to go somewhere interesting. like portsmouth.

have you decided what to shout at Sol yet?

regards, ann

Flanner:


Curious. What's your problem with Barlad (Birlad)? I've been traveling all of Romania, Moldova, Bulgaria for more than 30 years.

It serves as the key Eastern Romanian town in one of my historical novels, c.early 1900's.
Instead of our further hijacking Chol's dilemma, write me direct, if you will.

Chol: Kiev is striving to become world class..may or may not make it...,but certainly worth some time if you're in the Ukraine. I was last there three months ago. I agree with "thursdaysd's" assessment, and we have written each other to discuss it.

stu t.
[email protected]

I just checked the link flanneruk posted, and I think you should go, for this restaurant if for nothing else:

>>Zubrovka Music Tavern serves up a dose of great fun and fabulous food. Serving a delicious fusion of Mexican and European food, the menu is mouth-watering, the surroundings are divine and the atmosphere is festive. Don't miss live rock-performances from Thursday till Sunday.<<

Mexican/European fusion - the mind boggles.

Lee Ann

What difference is it where you get drunk and only go to the match?

stay home and head to Arsenal IMO

Have you considered self-flaggelation? Perhaps "cutting"?

I'm loving the idea of mexican food cooked by russians.

I lived in russia in my early twenties and at that time russians couldn't cook russian food, never mind mexican food (or do you think there are some seriously pissed off mexicans in Donetsk who are cursing themselves for not reading the Help Wanted advert REALLY carefully)?

There's even a pub there:

"The menu consists mainly of English dishes. For instance, there is English roast beef, ancient ragout from several kinds of game with white kidney beans (kasule) etc. And of course 15 sorts of beer!"

Careful C-W you'll have us all wanting to go there soon :)