Buying property in France - StCirq?
Jun 25th, 2004, 10:35 AM
#21
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In my dream world, I would pay the 300,000E for the bachelor appartment (I think it was 190 sq. meters)on Ile St Louis, and then some other place in perhaps the Loire or Languedoc...I have a few web sites that I can add. They are in french though.
Jun 25th, 2004, 10:43 AM
#24
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That's a big oops...There goes my math....300,000 for 19 sq. m. oops...Or another, 17 sq M for 148,000:
http://www.explorimmo.com/achat_APPA...IEN_75004.html
http://www.explorimmo.com/achat_APPA...IEN_75004.html
Jun 25th, 2004, 10:44 AM
#25
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Jun 25th, 2004, 10:53 AM
#26
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Ok, big difference. It's a factor of 10. 
But that's a big difference too between the one for 300K vs. 149K. (in price per sq M, I mean).
By the way, for Americans used to dealing in sq feet,
(1m)^2 = (100 cm)^2 = (100/(2.54x12) ft)^2 = (3.28 ft)^2 = 10.76 ft^2.
But that's a big difference too between the one for 300K vs. 149K. (in price per sq M, I mean).
By the way, for Americans used to dealing in sq feet,
(1m)^2 = (100 cm)^2 = (100/(2.54x12) ft)^2 = (3.28 ft)^2 = 10.76 ft^2.
Jun 25th, 2004, 10:55 AM
#27
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This one is nice too...
http://www.fgp-cev.com/fiche.php?s_id_ann=31
http://www.fgp-cev.com/fiche.php?s_id_ann=31
Jun 25th, 2004, 11:01 AM
#28
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Whenever I can get over to Paris, one thing I like ot do is look at the ads in the window of the real estate agenvy on the main street of Ile St Louis. The way I look at it, the price for such a small appartment is not unreasonable if I were to simply use it as base when visiting (or 6 mnths a year if everything works out someday), then rent it out otherwise. I believe taxes and utilities are quite reasonable.
Jun 25th, 2004, 11:05 AM
#29
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I've thought about this sort of thing before -- undoubtedly the people here are much more experienced, but supposedly one thing that should be considered is that the French laws are quite protective of renters. Presumably a rental agency can deal with this -- or if the apartment is in a good location, perhaps short-term rentals will recoup the cost of the apartment. Still it sounds nice in theory, but I'm skeptical as to how it'd work in practice unless the person who buys the apartment plans to move there eventually. There're so many factors to consider -- exchange-rate fluctuations being a consideration too. People who've bought before the Euro went up obviously have a windfall (relative to the dollar), but the exchange rate could easily have gone the other way.
Jun 25th, 2004, 11:10 AM
#30
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My theory is that I can find a company who, for a fee, takes care of renting and cleaning and paying the bills. Almost like a time share, except I would own 100% of it. If such an arrangement works out, maybe I could actually clear some money on the deal. I also would oopen a bank account, so that all transactions occur in euros, so my only (?) expense would be the purchase...all in theory of course I fill the need to at least start reseaching these things.
I fill the need to at least start reseaching these things.
Jun 25th, 2004, 11:14 AM
#32
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Yes, I think about it too, but I move very slowly when it comes to these things. Prices will probably have jumped ten-fold before I put my mind to it.
Yes, agencies do exist, for what it's worth. A friend in Paris lived in the US for a long time and bought an apartment in Paris and rented it out through an agency.
Basically I'd imagine that anything is possible provided that there's money (money does talk), but whether the apartment itself is a worthy investment is another story. Still there's a certain satisfaction with owning your own place in a place you like and it's hard to put a monetary value on that sort of thing.
Yes, agencies do exist, for what it's worth. A friend in Paris lived in the US for a long time and bought an apartment in Paris and rented it out through an agency.
Basically I'd imagine that anything is possible provided that there's money (money does talk), but whether the apartment itself is a worthy investment is another story. Still there's a certain satisfaction with owning your own place in a place you like and it's hard to put a monetary value on that sort of thing.
Jun 25th, 2004, 11:18 AM
#33
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Michel:
You can't buy a property without opening a bank account. And all transactions would of course occur in euros, with the exception of any Canadian income you might get from Canadian renters. And practically speaking, because of the time it takes mail to get from France to North America, you'd need to set up your bank account so that everything is paid by prélèvement - with automatic deductions being made regularly for the mortgage payment, utility bills, taxes, and all the regular payments you'd be making. Then all you have to do is remember to SEND money over there from time top time
And there are a gazillion companies that will handle rentals and upkeep and whatnot. I have one, but I also have a neighbor who keeps watch on the place and takes care of the details with renters. I like to have that system of checks and balances, since I'm so far away.
You can't buy a property without opening a bank account. And all transactions would of course occur in euros, with the exception of any Canadian income you might get from Canadian renters. And practically speaking, because of the time it takes mail to get from France to North America, you'd need to set up your bank account so that everything is paid by prélèvement - with automatic deductions being made regularly for the mortgage payment, utility bills, taxes, and all the regular payments you'd be making. Then all you have to do is remember to SEND money over there from time top time
And there are a gazillion companies that will handle rentals and upkeep and whatnot. I have one, but I also have a neighbor who keeps watch on the place and takes care of the details with renters. I like to have that system of checks and balances, since I'm so far away.
Jun 25th, 2004, 11:20 AM
#34
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I like the idea of having a place to crash while visiting a city that I never tire of. Not necessarily (I think) to live in year round.
My to-do is to make up a spreadsheet, to figure out all of the cost and all of the income, and see what I can afford. I just have no sense of whether this dream is reasonable or...just a dream.
My to-do is to make up a spreadsheet, to figure out all of the cost and all of the income, and see what I can afford. I just have no sense of whether this dream is reasonable or...just a dream.
Jun 25th, 2004, 01:15 PM
#35
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Michel-
>>Message: This one is nice too...
http://www.fgp-cev.com/fiche.php?s_id_ann=31
>>
It's 119 sq.Meters for either Euro335,000 and about Euro1300 per month for the rest of the lifespan of the 77-year-old owner, or Euro470,000 and it's yours right now, although he gets to stay in it.
It's alleged to be worth over a million euro if sold outright without a tenant in place, although it apparently isn't being offered that way.
This is an interesting option known as "viager"...you can bet on whether the owner will live for less than 8 more years, the time it would take to get to the Euro470,000 price. Of course, he may live to be 100 or more. Keep in mind the tale of Jeanne Calmont, who died at 122, outliving the buyer of her home by a couple of years.
"In life, one sometimes makes bad deals," she is quoted as saying after the death of the buyer.
>>Message: This one is nice too...
http://www.fgp-cev.com/fiche.php?s_id_ann=31
>>
It's 119 sq.Meters for either Euro335,000 and about Euro1300 per month for the rest of the lifespan of the 77-year-old owner, or Euro470,000 and it's yours right now, although he gets to stay in it.
It's alleged to be worth over a million euro if sold outright without a tenant in place, although it apparently isn't being offered that way.
This is an interesting option known as "viager"...you can bet on whether the owner will live for less than 8 more years, the time it would take to get to the Euro470,000 price. Of course, he may live to be 100 or more. Keep in mind the tale of Jeanne Calmont, who died at 122, outliving the buyer of her home by a couple of years.
"In life, one sometimes makes bad deals," she is quoted as saying after the death of the buyer.
Jun 25th, 2004, 01:18 PM
#36
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I don't understand this very well. If you pay 470K now and he gets to stay in it, presumably until he dies, what's the hurry of owning the apartment now?
Oh, I see. The annuity of 1300 Euros/per month is paid only when he's alive. Ok.
But even if you own the apartment now, it's not possible to evict the tenant?
Oh, I see. The annuity of 1300 Euros/per month is paid only when he's alive. Ok.
But even if you own the apartment now, it's not possible to evict the tenant?
Jun 25th, 2004, 01:40 PM
#37
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When you enter into an agreement to purchase "à viager," you are essentially gambling that the owner will die by the time the house reaches the value you've paid for it. In the meantime, you pay "rent" or the equivalent of a mortgage payment to the owner. No, the owner never has to move out of the house, even if he lives, as in the case of Mme. Calmont, longer than the "buyer" does. VERY risky proposition.
Michel - you do realize that for 300,000 euros you could own a lovely large property in the countryside?
Michel - you do realize that for 300,000 euros you could own a lovely large property in the countryside?
Jun 29th, 2004, 02:53 AM
#38
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I just finished reading a book which may be of some interest to those wanting to purchase a home in France.
Castle in the Backyard (the dream of a house in Framce) by Betsy Draine & Michael Hinden. Very entertaining.
Castle in the Backyard (the dream of a house in Framce) by Betsy Draine & Michael Hinden. Very entertaining.
Jun 29th, 2004, 04:07 AM
#39
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As a very old and very retired banker, I find the idea of owning property in France sounds more romantic than practical due to French law and French taxation.
Did you ever think that if your funds were invested in a growth stock or stock fund that you -- within 10 years -- most likely would have enough profit plus cash flow (from dividends, if reinvested) to rent property without possibly running afoul of either French law or taxes? And your heirs would thank you again and again.
The idea of ownership is vastly over-rated in cross-border real estate investing. A long-term lease -- much like a time share but without the hassle -- might be the fulfillment of your dreams.
Did you ever think that if your funds were invested in a growth stock or stock fund that you -- within 10 years -- most likely would have enough profit plus cash flow (from dividends, if reinvested) to rent property without possibly running afoul of either French law or taxes? And your heirs would thank you again and again.
The idea of ownership is vastly over-rated in cross-border real estate investing. A long-term lease -- much like a time share but without the hassle -- might be the fulfillment of your dreams.
Jul 29th, 2004, 08:58 PM
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We are currently in the process of buying a tiny flat in Nice. We live in Denver. As expected, it has taken three months to procure a mortgage and handle the necessary paperwork. We were not planning on returned to Nice for the signing. I thought I had researched the whole process, and had been told that we could simply transer power of attorney to the Notaire to sign for us.
Well, now that it is time for closing, the Notaire contacted us with instructions to only have the power of attorney notarized through the French Embassy or Consulate. Conveniently, the nearest one (our region's) in is Los Angeles. ARGH! Of course, if we were to have a local notary sign the form, it will take mounds of additional paperwork and three more months.
The rest of the process went fairly smoothly, at least as described in the websites. I will update on this issue when I find out more. If anyone knows another way, I am all ears. If we must fly, we will return to Nice to sign in person, rather than go to Los Angeles.
Well, now that it is time for closing, the Notaire contacted us with instructions to only have the power of attorney notarized through the French Embassy or Consulate. Conveniently, the nearest one (our region's) in is Los Angeles. ARGH! Of course, if we were to have a local notary sign the form, it will take mounds of additional paperwork and three more months.
The rest of the process went fairly smoothly, at least as described in the websites. I will update on this issue when I find out more. If anyone knows another way, I am all ears. If we must fly, we will return to Nice to sign in person, rather than go to Los Angeles.
