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Buskers and beggars .. donate? if yes, how much?

Buskers and beggars .. donate? if yes, how much?

Old Apr 24th, 2012, 05:46 PM
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Buskers and beggars .. donate? if yes, how much?

Hi,

I just returned from a vacation to York and Edinburgh (some trip notes to come soon).

I remember seeing buskers on my last trip in 2010 to Edinburgh. I don't remember seeing people straight begging (sitting on sidewalk with cardboard sign). I saw one in York and 4-5 in Edinburgh.

Most of the Edinburgh folk who were straight begging also had dogs with them. One dog held a cap in his teeth. The others just slept.

I was really uncomfortable with the dog holding the cap. Yes, it attracted me to want to donate. I did not like how thin the dog was (complete skin-and-bones, no, but definitely on very thin side). I ended up walking on, not sure what to do, and uncomfortable with both the moving on and maybe putting in coin. If I had put in some coins, I really wondered if more food would be given the dog.

If someone is singing/playing instrument .. do you donate? how do you decide the yes/no? and if yes, then how much?

People sitting on the sidewalk with signs begging for funds .. do you donate? how do you decide the yes/no? and if yes, then how much?

Thanks.
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Old Apr 24th, 2012, 09:45 PM
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Ignore the beggars totally don't feel guilty just walk on by, if they ask for spare change just say NO!
as for bi=uskers ,if you are enjoying what they do then 50p or a £1 will do just fine, again don't feel guilty about passing by and putting nothing in the hat.
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Old Apr 24th, 2012, 09:53 PM
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I saw one in York and 4-5 in Edinburgh.

If you only saw 4-5 in Edinburgh you missed quite a few and on top of that there's the myriad of Big Issue sellers.

As for donating to beggars - never and I only donate to buskers if a) they are good or b) they know how to play something jolly on the pipes
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Old Apr 24th, 2012, 09:55 PM
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In principle, I personally don't donate to beggars. Real, professional, busking is a completely different thing. For a decent act, anything between £1 and $5 depending on what you've got on you and the quality of the act

There are other ways of supporting the homeless: the conventional British alternative is to buy EVERY edition of The Big Issue from their street sellers, and to make intermittent donations to Crisis, a charity specialising in working with the homeless. Both ensure your cash goes to food, shelter and real assistance for the homeless: straight donations to beggars inevitably increase their vulnerability to mugging and the temptation to spend the cash on drugs.

This rather pompous-sounding approach (the one recommended by most specialists) is a bit of a generation thing. Below about 35, it's much more common to just throw a few quid to an appealing beggar if it's spare in the pocket.

The world isn't going to end if you do - and two seconds' exposure to the realities of life at the bottom of the British pile shows you frequent, horrifying examples of how often the bureaucracy of our social security blanket prevents publicly funded assistance from getting to those most desperately in need when they most need it. A few quid against your better judgement every now and then is probably going to do less harm than good. But DO buy the Big Issue whenever you can.

This might have changed recently, but when I had a professional connection a decade or so back with State support for the homeless, having a dog slightly increased the cash benefit the government gave them - and in those days, slightly more than it cost to feed the dog. The dog doesn't (or didn't) just provide companionship, protection and donor appeal: it provided a small additional income.
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Old Apr 24th, 2012, 10:03 PM
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Buskers - if I stop to listen/watch 50P to £2 (depending on what coins are handy), maybe more if I take photos/video.

Homeless - I buy at least one copy of the Big Issue every day. I never just give £/$ to beggars.
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Old Apr 25th, 2012, 12:55 AM
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Hi S,

Never give money to a beggar. They make more money than you do.

See "The Man with the Twisted Lip" by A C Doyle

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Old Apr 25th, 2012, 02:01 AM
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Thank you! You all have given me the voices of travel expertise and local knowledge I needed.

Next trip I plan to keep some 50p and/or £1 coin in a separate pocket so I am ready to quickly acknowledge the buskers (and not be reaching for the main coin purse and being distracted on the street while doing so).

I did see people offering the Big Issue and did not know what it was. Now I will be ready to buy some copies of that.

Thank you, again.
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Old Apr 25th, 2012, 03:10 AM
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Personally i would buy some dog food for the poor dog
I have never given any money to beggars, but in some cases i bought them something to eat.

The Big Issue is a great thing, i wish we had something similar in Greece.
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Old Apr 25th, 2012, 03:19 AM
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Many, maybe most, street musicians are playing "at" instruments. Every now and then you find a real winner. I've seen a few and like was said above, if I stop and listen for more than a few seconds then I will probably listen for a few minutes. They get paid, but they have to be good.

Here is a well known example of a world class violinist playing in the Washington Metro, just to see of people would notice. The one woman at the end did notice, in fact she was at his concert the previous night at the Kennedy Center...

Josh Bell

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnOPu0_YWhw

dave
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Old Apr 25th, 2012, 03:23 AM
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Oh, and read the associated Washington Post article. The violin he was using is his $3.5 million Gibson ex Huberman.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...040401721.html

dave
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Old Apr 25th, 2012, 04:34 AM
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I never give beggars, stateside or overseas, money.

I am certainly interested in what flanneruk and janisj say about The Big Issue--I had no idea and had never explored that. So next trip to the UK (June 2013--415 days I think!) I may follow their lead (as I have often found myself doing in things British).

As to buskers/street performers, if I stop and listen, which means that I must have found them to be worth some time, then I will "pay" for my "attendance" at their performance. Usually what coins I have, although I did leave a 5-pound-note once for a combo playing Celtic-ish lilts on a street in Winchester, who provided our lunchtime concert as we stood opposite them, eating fresh strawberries. Almost as soon as we walked away, I wished I had purchased their CD, but when we walked back down the street an hour later they were gone. Sigh.
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Old Apr 25th, 2012, 04:54 AM
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I admit I don't give money to beggers. I do support a lot of homeless and food bank services through regular monthly/quarterly donations, so that's what I tell myself when I feel so guilty. And boy do I feel guilty!

Thank your for telling me about the Big Issue. I never knew about that, and it is exactly the method through which I would wish to contribute.

If I am touring somewhere and I see a charity in action that is meeting a local need, I sometimes donate on the spot or even end up including them in my regular charitable giving. I remember cycling past migrant workers in the state of Washington, amazed at how far north Hispanic people had traveled to support families. I mentioned that to the desk clerk at our hotel, and she said that's why she was involved in an organization called Casa Latina. They became one of my regular charities on the spot.

Buskers are a totally different thing. People who play nonsense get nothing, no even my attention. Skilled performers such as "Les Musiciens de Lviv" who play certain days at certain sites throughout Paris get a lot of cash from me. In fact, if I am in Paris on a Sunday, I always head for the Marais to find them.

Re CDs, as texasbookworm brought up, I'm tempted to buy but reluctant because of unreliable recording quality.
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Old Apr 25th, 2012, 05:00 AM
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Buying busker music CDs (the ones you stopped to watch cos you liked them) make useful souvenirs of the places or moments you've enjoyed while on a holiday. I have several and while I may not listen to them as frequently now as I did in the months following my trips, some of them can grow on you.
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Old Apr 25th, 2012, 05:39 AM
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Let us be absolutely clear about the British benefits system. It is incredibly generous and nobody should be anywhere close to what would be regarded as a world poverty level.

The average poverty level in Britain consists of 50 inch plasma screens, smoking/drinking until your body gives up and you are admitted to he local free 4 star hotel wich doubles as a hospital. Many here have developed a knowledge of our system which leaves them far better off than many of those who work.

Which leads us to buskers/beggars.

1. They probably will not have proper jobs
2. They probably will be part of the benefits system
3. They will not be declaring the income to the relevant benefit department
4. They will not be declaring the name to the tax authorities.
5. Many ( and I have seen this happen) can receive n excess of £100 a day, tax and benefit free.
6. They drive local business owners absolutely crazy with their inane music which is repeated 50 times a day.
7. Some are part of organised crime

I think you can see where I am coming from.
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Old Apr 25th, 2012, 06:27 AM
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DickieG--I do understand where you are coming from. But as regarding buskers, I can tell you that in the US there are druggies who just play random stuff and then there are professionals (often ones approved by agencies in cities) who actually earn or add to their living this way. Two sons of my best friend are educated musicians who teach lessons, work recording sessions as back-up artists, and are part of a small but well-booked band. Still, busking pays their car payments!

And you do have a point about interference with business, but sometimes the presence of one or more GOOD buskers adds to an area draw. I know that when I go to Galway, the only reason I who hates to shop enters shops is that there are fabulous buskers in the shopping area.

I had mentioned Les Musiciens de Lviv. On Sunday, they play in the Place des Vosges outside shops that are closed on Sunday. So they do NOT interfere with immediate business, and yet they end up drawing a crowd to an area where shops are open a bit over. I'd say it is a win-win.

That said, DickieG, you brought up a VERY important point. Almost every time one buys fake stuff one the street, you have supported some sort of organized crime "charity." In case people don't know it, the worst and most rampant kind of shoplifting is essential to organized crime. Professionals lift goods, turn it in to a sorting area, and what you see as random "street" sales is actually the means of very monitored black market distribution. If one is going to feel guilty, feel guilty about THAT.
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Old Apr 25th, 2012, 06:38 AM
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AZ

I think it is easy to generalise.

We have had school groups run a weekend of a string quartet to raise money for charity.

We also have a particularly caustic character who annoys everyone and wears black glasses to give the impression he is blind. We are aware he has a handler and suspect he is connected to criminal gangs.

My general point is that NOBODY in our country is poor in world terms. Some do slip through the net for whatever reason, they may have mental health issues and not have an allocated care system. As a result they may have become homeless. These cases are the extreme and very few. Generally, most under privileged in the UK are very privileged in world terms.
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Old Apr 25th, 2012, 06:40 AM
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It may not be possible for US posters to appreciate how soft the blanket can be, that is wrapped around our so called poor.
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Old Apr 25th, 2012, 06:56 AM
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GickieG
what is world poverty?
Someone who earns 200 GBP in Moldova may survive, could you survive with that in the UK?
Here is a link to an interesting article
http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datab...th-children-uk
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Old Apr 25th, 2012, 07:26 AM
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DickieG--I really do understand about annoying guys. We had a saxophone player on my husband's business block who made money only because local business owners paid him to stay away.

But I see NOTHING wrong with guys who have a skill that they paid for with hard work and talent who offer that up to the public--and the public gets to choose whether or not to reward them.

I mentioned those two sons of my best friend. They had lived a nice life, ironically as a result of their parents' working their way through college. Each boy's education cost at the very least 30K per year, and luckily, their night gigs and street busking paid for a lot of that. The boys were excellent students, well regarded by their professors. But the fact remains that musician gigs pay intermittently. They are MORE than willing to work 60 hours per week, so the problem is getting enough employment.

Ergo...
I just cannot feel guilty about helping any kid like them meet a car payment. Street busking is not going to make them millionaires.

BTW...
Kelly Clarkson was a street busker and a waitress.
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Old Apr 25th, 2012, 07:32 AM
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There are no rules for buskers in the UK or US?
When i was living in Vienna, they were allowed to play for a limited time only, 20 min, if i remember well.
After that they were obliged to change place and not play in a distance less than 100 meters.
I remember the police taking that very seriously, and force them to move when they had exceeded their time.
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