<If the bull had a fair chance, I would go>

couldn't agree more:-)

I always wanted to go once to a bullfight to see not only what Hemingway got out of it but what millions of Spaniards got out of it. I have a great deal of respect for the Spanish people and the bullfight is central to their culture.

Although the torture and killing of a bull is immediate in a bullfight and out in the open, I do not find myself superior for never being part of a bullfight, even as a spectator- yet. I bait my fish hook with live worms and minnows when I fish. These lower animals feel pain. Most posters on this site eat chicken, beef and pork and the animals that provide much of those meats are kept in cramped, filthy conditions before they are put on an assembly line for butchering. Read Eric Schlosser's FAST FOOD NATION and you'll get a whiff of the seemy side of what lands on people's dinner tables.

Bear baiting is finished as a sport and has been for a long time. Very few American jurisdictions allow cockfighting and the end of legal cockfighting seems inevitable. A century from now, bullfighting, at least as practiced in Spain, may be of the ages.

Hi Pausanias
>Never been to a cockfight, dog fight or bear baiting, but there is a great deal more to the bullfight than you suggest. Are you speaking from experience?>

Just because it is dressed up in pomp and ceremony doesn't make it less cruel.

Yes, I am.

Hi GeorgeW
>Most posters on this site eat chicken, beef and pork and the animals that provide much of those meats are kept in cramped, filthy conditions before they are put on an assembly line for butchering.<

At least one could argue that this is done to provide food.

> I bait my fish hook with live worms and minnows when I fish. These lower animals feel pain.<

Have you ever considered lures?

((I))

thezanmiller:

I went to a bullfight in Spain many, many years ago. I was very young, curious, and searching for experiences, the way people do when they're young. At that time, I also went to a party in Madrid where there were some matadors. We watched them standing around comparing stories, alot of macho atmosphere.

I remember there was alot of formal pageantry, but that watching the whole thing was hard to do, because of the violence. I do not regret having gone, however. It is a memory woven into the tapestry of my past, I would not recommend it to someone who is really anxious beforehand.

There are also female matadors.
One of them, well known in Spain, whose name escapes me, was one of the stars of the ALmovodar film "Talk to Her"- which has some scenes of bullfighting. It might be a good idea to rent that- perhaps it will either quench your husband's curiosity, or resolve your anxiety.

Good luck on your journey!

I went to a bullfight in Velez-Malaga, Spain, many years ago and didn't find it gory, offensive, anxiety-inducing or otherwise intolerable. Having studied the language in high school and college, I welcomed the opportunity to see another cultural aspect of the country - and would go again.

Lures for fresh, animal bait for salt, ira.

Good for you, G. :)

((I))

I attended a bullfight in Madrid summer 1960. The spectacle is ingrained in the Spanish culture and, if properly assimilated is worthwhile to see. BTW, this ain't a game. The bull is supposed to be the victim. Its pagentry.

Hello Ira --

The difference between bullfighting and the other blood sports you cited is the matador. The human introduces art into what I agree is a cruel spectacle. The art lies in dominating the bull and conquering fear. It is not to everyones taste, but sadism is not necessary for its appreciation. It is very complicated and, as Garcia Lorca said, "the last serious thing."

"Just because it is dressed up in pomp and ceremony doesn't make it less cruel."

<The art lies in dominating the bull and conquering fear>

HOGWASH

Gee he can outsmart a bull.. I am so impressed. NOT

thezanmiller~ People are passionate in their posts and opinions here, but please understand you did choose a doozy for one of your first posts.

Asking about a hotel in Paris or a restaurant in Rome, you'll find, will get you a different type of reply, less visceral than people's reaction to the question of bullfighting.

>>My bet is that the people who have actually seen one will tell you "Go!" because they wouldn't have gone in the first place were they bothered by such things.<<

Don't be so quick to generalize. ;)

thezanmiller ~

I went to a bullfight in Mexico when I was in my 20s because I was curious and wanted to know more about the culture. While I have no desire to repeat the experience, it was a part of what I've done and I've no regrets about it. However, it isn't for everyone, and that should be understood.

If you're ambivalent at this point, I would suggest trying to get hold of Hemingway's "Death in the Afternoon." It is a non-fiction book, but written more along the lines of the author talking to the reader on an intimate level. It is dated, somewhat, but the book does give an explanation for this tragedy. It was primarily due to this book that I changed my mind completely on bullfighting. (Am now against it) Your husband might find it interesting an interesting read as well.

When my husband, his brother and I were in Madrid this past June, we did attend a bullfight. Having studied the Spanish language and culture for years, I was quite interested in seeing what is an integral part of the Spanish culture.

It was an interesting experience, and, given the right circumstances, I would very possibly do it again. Would I go every Sunday? No. But it was interesting to watch (both watching the matador and watching the crowd).

I agree that you might read Death in the Afternoon. I did before I went and felt prepared that I knew how the day would progress; I was also able to better see the "art" in the event itself.

There are stages in a bullfight. In one stage, 2 men (who wear steel armor on their legs) come in on horseback and stab the neck muscle of the bull 3 times with long lances with steel spikes at the end. In the next stage, three other men stab 6 barbed darts into the bull’s shoulders.

After the bull is thus attacked and weakened, the matador kills the bull with his sword.

No amount of tradition and pageantry could make me find this cruelty entertaining.

i was pretty neutral about it and even considered going to one. then i saw it on television. i am normally pretty thick skinned about stuff like this but i thought it was disgusting.

I went to a bullfight in Mexico a couple of decades ago as a Mexican businessman talked us into doing so.

We sat in the shady area. A Mexican family sat next to us. On my left was their little boy, about four or five years old. His family was not interested in his distress. This little fellow ended up putting his head, face down on my lap. I felt so sorry for him. His family was obviously disgusted with his reaction to the bullfight (I assume it was his first time he was taken to one). Thank goodness I had some tissues with me so I could wipe the tears from his face.

Been there, seen it. Would I ever go to another bullfight. No!!

There are bullfights (Portugal) where they just injure the bull, weaken it, taunt it, and then put it out to stud.

That way it can live out the rest of its life fully traumatized.

>>>>>That way it can live out the rest of its life fully traumatized.

Cool. A bull mindreader.

>>My bet is that the people who have actually seen one will tell you "Go!" because they wouldn't have gone in the first place were they bothered by such things.<<

Quite the contrary. Call me naive but I went in Madrid in 2001 not knowing they killed the bull. That was unthinkable to me.

The fight just went on and on because it was the first of the night and the bullfighter was inexperienced. I became more horrified by the minute, not knowing when to leave and knowing we'd be ridiculed for leaving.

To make matters worse I was there with my pregnant client as it was a business trip! I had many pitchers of Sangria to erase those thoughts.

You know, those fights are no picnic for the horses either. They cut their vocal cords so they don't cry out.