Go Back  Fodor's Travel Talk Forums > Destinations > Europe
Reload this Page >

Brutal Crack Down on Peaceful Environmental Protest

Brutal Crack Down on Peaceful Environmental Protest

Old Jun 16th, 2013, 11:41 PM
  #261  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 26,115
Received 4 Likes on 4 Posts
latest bbc

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-22925619
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-22930703
bilboburgler is offline  
Old Jun 17th, 2013, 01:10 AM
  #262  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,326
Received 4 Likes on 2 Posts
I had the first good sleep in three weeks. Woke up at 9:30 AM, bought but did not check the papers, had a simple breakfast with Eser and we are now with the jack of all trades maintenance man/friend of twenty years in our compound who is trying to fix a coded satellite system for us. No tear gas or plastic pellet pops, shouts or screams or our own Fuhrer screaming.

At the time I slept, about 1:30 AM, The police were fighting at least five groups from one to fifteen thousand trying to approach Taksim square from different directions plus protesting groups which had gathered in four other parts of Istanbul and some other cities in Turkey like Ankara, Izmir, Canakkale, Eskisehir, Adana, Kayseri, Trabzon, Zonguldak.

These are the people the Turkish Minister in charge of EU negotiations calls "terrorists".

There are now increasing calls to not fall into the PM's trap of actually appearing as disrupters of life in Turkey.
The opponents to that view say that, acquiescence will allow him to conduct his witch hunt much easier and with impunity.

Already, reporters, cameramen, actors, first aid and rescue workers have been arrested.
otherchelebi is offline  
Old Jun 17th, 2013, 01:16 AM
  #263  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 57,091
Received 5 Likes on 3 Posts
Already, reporters, cameramen, actors, first aid and rescue workers have been arrested.>>

says a lot.

glad that you and Eser are safe and finally getting some rest, OC.
annhig is offline  
Old Jun 17th, 2013, 01:33 AM
  #264  
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 26,242
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
We did fly out of Istanbul yesterday - two of the main roads were closed, but the third was open, albeit with a lot of traffic. The airport was packed - we left Sultanahmet at 2 and boarded our plane at 4:30. The longest and slowest line was passport control.
sf7307 is offline  
Old Jun 17th, 2013, 06:39 AM
  #265  
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,820
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
sf7307, I am glad that you were able to leave the country without encounter any problems..

OC take care ...

Thousands of people demonstrated near the American Embassy in Ankara..

http://www.repubblica.it/esteri/2013...-61191955/1/#2
kismetchimera is offline  
Old Jun 19th, 2013, 10:49 AM
  #266  
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,929
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Just to update: Taksim is to all intents and purposes up and running again. There is still a smell of teargas though. The Standing Protesters are there but only 5 of them this morning. Groups of police, both in uniform and not, are everywhere sitting around watching but doing nothing. All the usual transport links are working.
Istanbul is very quiet and there are few tourists. All the big tour groups seem to have left. There was one big cruise ship in today and I saw only one group of sightseers.

I have been in Eastern Turkey for the past week or so where I saw no protests at all. I go back to London tomorrow with all the usual regret at leaving Turkey.

Just a final quote from Ghandi: "first they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win."
gertie3751 is offline  
Old Jun 19th, 2013, 11:00 AM
  #267  
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,820
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I hope that Ghandi was right in this case..

Have a good trip Gertie..
kismetchimera is offline  
Old Jun 19th, 2013, 11:23 AM
  #268  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,326
Received 4 Likes on 2 Posts
thanks for yor contribution Gertie.

This evening the standing people numbers grew to some hundreds, but I still think it is a good passive resistance, with people of all ages, coming out of their offices or other jobs and spending any amount of time they can, doing just that, with only very few able to stand at the early hours.

But we now have people standing and looking at forests cut at other parts of Turkey for other projects and other standing individuals in the countryside and the cities.

And the police and the government have no idea how to deal with them since they are not breaking any laws.
otherchelebi is offline  
Old Jun 19th, 2013, 11:33 AM
  #269  
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,820
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
OC, I have found this video from La Repubblica about the passive resistance of many people.

http://www.repubblica.it/esteri/2013...-61366293/1/#1



http://video.repubblica.it/dossier/t.../132528/131048
kismetchimera is offline  
Old Jun 19th, 2013, 01:15 PM
  #270  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 57,091
Received 5 Likes on 3 Posts
the silent protests are very moving [though that's probably not the right word as of course they are stationary!].
annhig is offline  
Old Jun 19th, 2013, 02:07 PM
  #271  
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 11,656
Likes: 0
Received 7 Likes on 1 Post
continuing to follow the updates. thanks for posting

Sf-glad u encountered no major issues leaving. How was your stay in Istanbil?
yestravel is offline  
Old Jun 19th, 2013, 07:47 PM
  #272  
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 650
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Here is an article from Thursday's NY Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/20/wo...nted=1&_r=0&hp
BigAleinstein is offline  
Old Jun 20th, 2013, 02:55 AM
  #273  
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,929
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
My last visit to Taksim this morning. There were several Standing Protesters. I found it very touching: they were dignified elderly men standing there ramrod straight in the hot sun. They were not the riff-raff and trouble makers Erdogan wants us to believe. They were working people who took a few minutes to silently protest on their way to work. I stood for a while too. As a visitor it's a tricky one. We are not residents and therefore not directly involved, but we want to show support.
gertie3751 is offline  
Old Jun 21st, 2013, 08:53 AM
  #274  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,326
Received 4 Likes on 2 Posts
The human creature adapts rather too easily.
We have the PM screaming hate almost everyday, to his applauding supporters and blaming foreign powers, terrorists, big business, atheists, European Union, "The Interest Lobby?" vandals, artists, actors, professors intellectuals who think they know better than him and his supporters.

On the other hand we still have protesters in small groups in many cities in Turkey, gassed and arrested, writers, journalists, businessmen, professors, actors threatened by government and fundamentalist.

But we are now used to it. Last two days, we even watched some TV series like Continuum and Banshee in between the news and the talk shows.

The Bar associations are working overtime to help all those arrested or threatened. The Medical Association is applying to the European Court of Human Rights.

The Fed's last statement combined with the situation is lifting the cover of deceit on the Turkish economy but also providing another scapegoat.

What little saving I have is in USD but many others who believed in the Turkish government's manipulated statistics and declarations borrowed in USD and Euros against Turkish Lira receivables, without hedging. They are in deep sh.......tck.

This includes some people who robbed me of what could have been a sizable (for me) fortune only 5-6 years ago, so I am not complaining.

Turkey is definitely safe for visitors. Istanbul is also safe and was actually safe unless one got caught in the midst of protesting groups and was hit by gas or taking photographs of police violence and considered as an anti-government foreign agent.

The protesters were from all walks of life, all ideologies, races and religions only asking for freedom of expression, less authoritarian rule and environmental protection.

They were helped by almost all cafe, restaurant, fast food, hotel owners on Taksim square who kept their establishments open to help them, risking property damage.

The Divan Hotel and its owners, the largest Turkish conglomerate, Koc Group is now known as a lover of the people. One of the family members called the hotel manager, telling him to keep the hotel doors open to protesters, to provide emergency care and food and facilities to them and lock the doors against the police unless the police had a court order. Anyone who did not follow these orders would be fired.

On the other hand, The Starbucks, Mado ice cream, Kitchenette and OzSut franchises on the square are now totally shunned by the young people and those who have heard of their closing their doors to the protesters even to the injured ones.

This is the first time that any protest of such large proportions have not turned into a riot that destroys property, that could not be diverted against other targets and that has been trusted by the local merchants and common people and pedestrians and tourists fully in history of political unrest, as far as I know.
otherchelebi is offline  
Old Jun 21st, 2013, 09:01 AM
  #275  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 26,115
Received 4 Likes on 4 Posts
The PM was lambasting the Germans yesterday for looking a bit doubtful about having such a country in the EU.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23000319
bilboburgler is offline  
Old Jun 23rd, 2013, 06:08 AM
  #276  
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,820
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
From the Repubbica.it..New incidents at Tarsim Square..

http://www.repubblica.it/esteri/2013...?ref=HREC2-2#4
kismetchimera is offline  
Old Jun 23rd, 2013, 07:23 AM
  #277  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,326
Received 4 Likes on 2 Posts
The lovely group of people yesterday were all carrying carnations when they were hit by water cannon and then followed into side streets including those which had full side walk restaurants where every one was gassed.

We again saw many atrocities committed and many TV camera confiscated and reporters and cameramen arrested. Police were especially after CNN INT and the Turkish HALK (People's) TV .

The following is our new photographic blog of the day after m That is today :

http://ahmetcafercelebiler.blogspot....ervention.html
otherchelebi is offline  
Old Jun 23rd, 2013, 07:59 AM
  #278  
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 650
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Thank you for the pictures and updates. All those places we visited and enjoyed seemed to be waiting in anticipation of what will happen next.
BigAleinstein is offline  
Old Jun 24th, 2013, 05:57 PM
  #279  
kja
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,248
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Thank you so much for providing invaluable coverage of such tragic events.
kja is offline  
Old Jun 29th, 2013, 12:21 PM
  #280  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,326
Received 4 Likes on 2 Posts
Thanks to all who are interested and follow.

We went up to Taksim Square again this evening for another protest and got away before any police action which was not violent fortunately.

Here are our photographs of the sally with some crazy captions :
http://ahmetcafercelebiler.blogspot....quare-615.html

The Turkish government really made an ass of itself vi-a-vis EU except for UK who with Obama still think that the PM Erdogan is God's gift to America and England.

My analysis of how the Turkish PM and State handle foreign relations is that they think that when they lie they can get away afterwards by saying that they were joking. However, soon they start believing their own lies and then start getting aggressive and obnoxious about them.
otherchelebi is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Manage Preferences Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Your Privacy Choices -