Brits travelling to the US- visa question
Feb 19th, 2007, 04:05 AM
#21
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I'll stick my neck out and say that you are 99.99% certain not to encounter any problems at immigration (either in UK before you board your flight or on arrival) by using the visa-waiver scheme. The only scenario that could possibly result in any trouble is if you are arrested in US and the Homeland Security decide to do a thorough background check on you, contact British police for their records and your age-old conviction somehow resurfaces (and the UK authorities think it's worth telling their US colleagues).
Feb 19th, 2007, 04:10 AM
#22
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I was convicted. "and/or" means I'm caught, I think.
I might not be breaking the law by filling in the form wrongly (although, actually I think I would be), but I'd definitely be behaving immorally which a) I try not to do; and b) would get me in deep do do with the Law Society
BTW, Dukey, we haven't done this to you guys. But I suspect you're right. I suspect our government did nothing to stop this nonsense.
I might not be breaking the law by filling in the form wrongly (although, actually I think I would be), but I'd definitely be behaving immorally which a) I try not to do; and b) would get me in deep do do with the Law Society
BTW, Dukey, we haven't done this to you guys. But I suspect you're right. I suspect our government did nothing to stop this nonsense.
Feb 19th, 2007, 04:15 AM
#23
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Hi Sheila,
>But I'm a lawyer, for heaven's sakes! I can't lie on a form. I practice immigration law. <
I suggest that you need an immigration lawyer.
Seriously, I think you should ask your colleagues.
I have a feeling that you are going to have to spend time and money on this.
>But I'm a lawyer, for heaven's sakes! I can't lie on a form. I practice immigration law. <
I suggest that you need an immigration lawyer.
Seriously, I think you should ask your colleagues.
I have a feeling that you are going to have to spend time and money on this.
Feb 19th, 2007, 04:39 AM
#26
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'and/or' means just that. if they meant that either a conviction OR an arrest will disallow you, they would not say 'and/or'. i would imagine that if you asked two or three of your law colleagues for their interpretation, they would both agree.
...i think the problem is solved. not sure why you are so intent on keeping this alive. however fun it might be to continue the drama, it is clear that you are not a 'victim'.
...i think the problem is solved. not sure why you are so intent on keeping this alive. however fun it might be to continue the drama, it is clear that you are not a 'victim'.
Feb 19th, 2007, 05:28 AM
#27
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Don't quite understand that. I have a conviction. I have to go through the process.
I'm speaking to the immigration interview person as I type. They have confirmed that I HAVE to go. They also can't give me an appointment till 5th April, which, given that they say that it can take up to 16 weeks to get a visa if you have a conviction and we are flying on the 6th July, means I have to go to Belfast instead. And they have no appointments left this month and can't give one in March yet.
I would, dear walkin, just point out that I was looking for the personal experience of people who'd been through it. It's pretty dramatic for me, although I realise not for the rest of you.
And, frankly, whilst I don't feel victimised, I do think this is utterly ridiculous.
I'm speaking to the immigration interview person as I type. They have confirmed that I HAVE to go. They also can't give me an appointment till 5th April, which, given that they say that it can take up to 16 weeks to get a visa if you have a conviction and we are flying on the 6th July, means I have to go to Belfast instead. And they have no appointments left this month and can't give one in March yet.
I would, dear walkin, just point out that I was looking for the personal experience of people who'd been through it. It's pretty dramatic for me, although I realise not for the rest of you.
And, frankly, whilst I don't feel victimised, I do think this is utterly ridiculous.
Feb 19th, 2007, 05:48 AM
#28
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It's a case of "Where ignorance is bliss...."
Like you, I'd have gone merrily along until I found out.
I think that the whole thing is quite ridiculous and that there must be thousands of British people who have no idea that a minor spent conviction could cause so much difficulty.
Also, why on earth can't they have an office in Edinburgh?
It's a blessing that you have noticed in time.
If I were you, I'd go to http://www.writetothem.com/
and tell your story to your MP and MSP
Like you, I'd have gone merrily along until I found out.
I think that the whole thing is quite ridiculous and that there must be thousands of British people who have no idea that a minor spent conviction could cause so much difficulty.
Also, why on earth can't they have an office in Edinburgh?
It's a blessing that you have noticed in time.
If I were you, I'd go to http://www.writetothem.com/
and tell your story to your MP and MSP
Feb 19th, 2007, 05:58 AM
#29
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Miss Prism, Writing to MP/MSP/MEP is a complete waste of time.
There's no talking to the yanks about this - they have completely closed minds on this subject. They're in the middle of a collective hysteria when even a nice scottish lawyer of a certain age is considered a threat.
There's no talking to the yanks about this - they have completely closed minds on this subject. They're in the middle of a collective hysteria when even a nice scottish lawyer of a certain age is considered a threat.
Feb 19th, 2007, 06:15 AM
#30
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sheila...my apologies. the wording on the website is incorrect or at least not consistent with what you were told by the embassy. i agree, it is ridiculous if you do need to go through this and it is real drama. however, the website says, in clear english, that you do not have to. maybe the people you are speaking to at the embassy are being overly conservative in the interpretation. after all, this is the easiest answer to give without needing to fully understand and/or interpret your case.
AND/OR:
OR case-
did your case NOT result in a conviction OR arrest? NO, it did resulted in one of the two. BUT...
did your case NOT result in a conviction AND arrest? YES, it did not result in a conviction AND an arrest, therefore, you can travel on the visa waiver programme.
this is what the website says. i'm not trying to be cute with the wording...it's what it says clearly. I urge you to reread the sentence and ask a colleague...lawyers interpret wording for a living and this seems very clear to me.
AND/OR:
OR case-
did your case NOT result in a conviction OR arrest? NO, it did resulted in one of the two. BUT...
did your case NOT result in a conviction AND arrest? YES, it did not result in a conviction AND an arrest, therefore, you can travel on the visa waiver programme.
this is what the website says. i'm not trying to be cute with the wording...it's what it says clearly. I urge you to reread the sentence and ask a colleague...lawyers interpret wording for a living and this seems very clear to me.
Feb 19th, 2007, 06:35 AM
#32
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Wow, this is all hideous. So, now that I am one of, what, millions? of UK citizens with penalty points on my licence for getting caught by a speed camera, would I have to jump through these hoops too?
Feb 19th, 2007, 06:37 AM
#33
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Crimes can only be held agaiinst you for so long.
Minor crimes (ie the motoring offence mentioned here) do not count against you after five years. There's a sliding scale and some major crimes never become "spent".
Minor crimes (ie the motoring offence mentioned here) do not count against you after five years. There's a sliding scale and some major crimes never become "spent".
Feb 19th, 2007, 06:42 AM
#34
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Walkin', as a practising solicitor I read and/or to mean both
"spent" is an expression used in the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act and covers the situation where the conviction no longer counts in the UK system.
Kate if you paid on the ticket, you're probably OK. Just don't hit anything.
"spent" is an expression used in the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act and covers the situation where the conviction no longer counts in the UK system.
Kate if you paid on the ticket, you're probably OK. Just don't hit anything.
Feb 19th, 2007, 06:42 AM
#35
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Kate:
No. Speeding isn't an arrestable offence per se. So a few points on your licence doesn't matter. Otherwise pretty much every adult in the UK would have to go through this Kafkaesque rigmarole.
No. Speeding isn't an arrestable offence per se. So a few points on your licence doesn't matter. Otherwise pretty much every adult in the UK would have to go through this Kafkaesque rigmarole.
Feb 19th, 2007, 07:24 AM
#39
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Sheila's committed herself now, and she's in an unusual position anyway.
But this is what happens:
1. The US Embassy website is pretty well irrelevant in all this. So is the UK government.
2. Your average Briton has to do nothing to get admitted to the US until she gets off the plane in America. Prior to that she's asked no questions (except about whether she's packed her own bag) and fills in no forms.
3. Just before arrival at US immigration, we complete form 1-94W (April 2005 copy at www.gani.com/public/immigration/forms/i-94w.pdf). It's got a load of questions on, of which only one is relevant to this: Paraphrased, it's "have you ever been convicted or arrested for a crime involving gross moral turpitude or a potential sentence of over five years"?
Now that question might not accurately summarise US law: the US Embassy website is a masterpiece of bureaucratic uselessness on that ("the only way we'll tell you if you need a visa for a speeding offense (sic) is if you come here. And we won't tell you in Scotland"
But it's clear that, unless the form's been revised since April 2005, Sheila:
- would have been committing no ethical offence in Britain had she just got on the plane
- could in good conscience have ticked "no"
And I'd bet real money she'd have sailed through her hols untroubled by any early morning knock on the door by illegal alien snatch squads.
Kate can certainly sleep easy.
But this is what happens:
1. The US Embassy website is pretty well irrelevant in all this. So is the UK government.
2. Your average Briton has to do nothing to get admitted to the US until she gets off the plane in America. Prior to that she's asked no questions (except about whether she's packed her own bag) and fills in no forms.
3. Just before arrival at US immigration, we complete form 1-94W (April 2005 copy at www.gani.com/public/immigration/forms/i-94w.pdf). It's got a load of questions on, of which only one is relevant to this: Paraphrased, it's "have you ever been convicted or arrested for a crime involving gross moral turpitude or a potential sentence of over five years"?
Now that question might not accurately summarise US law: the US Embassy website is a masterpiece of bureaucratic uselessness on that ("the only way we'll tell you if you need a visa for a speeding offense (sic) is if you come here. And we won't tell you in Scotland"
But it's clear that, unless the form's been revised since April 2005, Sheila:- would have been committing no ethical offence in Britain had she just got on the plane
- could in good conscience have ticked "no"
And I'd bet real money she'd have sailed through her hols untroubled by any early morning knock on the door by illegal alien snatch squads.
Kate can certainly sleep easy.
Feb 19th, 2007, 07:29 AM
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WOW! I never cease to be amazed at the horrific woes of immigration hell!
My husband lived and worked in America for 2 years before he got the boot.. for a single drug arrest in 1982. I am a YANK ! A Term i am not fond of as i am a southern girl,and we refer to the northenors as yankees- It would be like calling someone from london a BRUMMIE!(ha!) anyways- big deal! call me what ever you like..I am in complete agreement with all the brits who are commenting here on the idiocracy of the laws and regulations of USA immigration officials. They ruin lives and none of the policies make sense... nor is the average person able to decipher the laws and rules- Even the attorneys couldnt seem to sort it and give us clear guidance!
We did everything by the book and submitted hundreds of dollars and were honest with all officials..honesty DOES NOT PAY! It got my husband deported and caused me to have to move to a place i never intended on living (I am however thankful they accepted me here) I had to move from my family and my children.I also had to sell up most everything I worked my entire life for and pack up house and move to the UK ALONE! We were seperated for 2 years because there was nobody to tell us that refiling to get him back was a waste of time,not even the attorney we hired! So everybody got a peice of us, robbed us of two years of our lives! and waiting on the embassy to call my husband in for appointment took nearly a year! only to be told, you are not every permitted to re enter the usa...i could have moved long before if we knew , if we only knew !!!!! - BY THE WAY_ When i applied for my visa to the UK - it was approved and returned to me within 2 weeks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The USA feels it is worthy to allow the mexican illegal aliens to live and take resources from honest taxpayers and look the other way on their criminal pasts . In my opinion, USA immigration is the most inhuman government operation i can think of. No regards to human lives and how their actions can affect them- keeping people seperated from their loved ones, robbing them of a life that people should be allowed to enjoy.. I COMPLETELY resent what they did to me and my husband... HOME SWEET HOME, GOD BLESS THE USA! Great Britain supports us for the war, fights with us,(regardless whether or not the individuals support it- the british governmet has) yet my fifty four year old husband with one stinkin drug conviction from 1982 means he is a threat to national security and not allowed the priveledge of even visiting my family with me... I have to quit writing now as i feel my blood pressure rise... i get so damn angry every time i hear of some insane drama created by the USA IMMIGRATION for people just trying to get on with their lives! grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!
My husband lived and worked in America for 2 years before he got the boot.. for a single drug arrest in 1982. I am a YANK ! A Term i am not fond of as i am a southern girl,and we refer to the northenors as yankees- It would be like calling someone from london a BRUMMIE!(ha!) anyways- big deal! call me what ever you like..I am in complete agreement with all the brits who are commenting here on the idiocracy of the laws and regulations of USA immigration officials. They ruin lives and none of the policies make sense... nor is the average person able to decipher the laws and rules- Even the attorneys couldnt seem to sort it and give us clear guidance!
We did everything by the book and submitted hundreds of dollars and were honest with all officials..honesty DOES NOT PAY! It got my husband deported and caused me to have to move to a place i never intended on living (I am however thankful they accepted me here) I had to move from my family and my children.I also had to sell up most everything I worked my entire life for and pack up house and move to the UK ALONE! We were seperated for 2 years because there was nobody to tell us that refiling to get him back was a waste of time,not even the attorney we hired! So everybody got a peice of us, robbed us of two years of our lives! and waiting on the embassy to call my husband in for appointment took nearly a year! only to be told, you are not every permitted to re enter the usa...i could have moved long before if we knew , if we only knew !!!!! - BY THE WAY_ When i applied for my visa to the UK - it was approved and returned to me within 2 weeks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The USA feels it is worthy to allow the mexican illegal aliens to live and take resources from honest taxpayers and look the other way on their criminal pasts . In my opinion, USA immigration is the most inhuman government operation i can think of. No regards to human lives and how their actions can affect them- keeping people seperated from their loved ones, robbing them of a life that people should be allowed to enjoy.. I COMPLETELY resent what they did to me and my husband... HOME SWEET HOME, GOD BLESS THE USA! Great Britain supports us for the war, fights with us,(regardless whether or not the individuals support it- the british governmet has) yet my fifty four year old husband with one stinkin drug conviction from 1982 means he is a threat to national security and not allowed the priveledge of even visiting my family with me... I have to quit writing now as i feel my blood pressure rise... i get so damn angry every time i hear of some insane drama created by the USA IMMIGRATION for people just trying to get on with their lives! grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!
