orzo808

I was just wondering if anyone has had this problem before. My husband and I, along with our two daughters invited my brother with us on our trip to europe.The trip went well. HOwever, he failed to chip in any money for the hotels. Not only that, he did not offer to pay his share of any taxi fares. I guess what I am wondering is if you invite someone along with you on a trip. Where do you draw the line as to what they pay for and what will you pay for? It is not that my brother is poor, I know he does have the money, he just didn't offer any? Not only, that he ran up my cell phone bill, to call his wife back home, now I am stuck with a big bill. Does anyone use parameters or set up rules with people when they travel as to who will pay for what and their share? Just wondering..

hightide

Well, if you invited him he may have thought it was 'all inclusive'. IMHO, best way to resolve (especially with family) is to establish the plan BEFORE departure. Might seem a little awkward but precludes surprises and hurt feelings...

Scarlett

Yes, definitely most people use parameters, even when they are taking someone along as a guest with no expenses paid. Getting the money talk out of the way before the trip is very important, to avoid what happened to you.
Apparently, your brother thought he was along for a free trip?
Even a family member should think to pitch in at least for phone calls..it is too bad, you will either have to speak to him about it or just swallow it.
* We went to Jamaica one year, a friend who had helped us design our apartment and his wife, asked to come along ( we had rented a villa with plenty of room.) They paid for their airfare..not one penny more, never even offered to babysit which would have been nice since my young son was terrified of the strange ladies that worked for us. I resented the free ride these two managed for themselves, but we should have set the rules before we left. Now that I look back on it, we should have just said no and left them behind too

Mucky

We had a similar problem with my brother, I paid for the Gite in France to celebrate my 40th for 11 of us and he and his small son came along because my parents couldn't make it. I told him he needed to pay for the cancelled ferry ticket and the transfer to his name, along with chipping in for food and drink and petrol which he said he was happy to do.Everyone funded their own transport to France from Wales.
Once we were there he left his small boy with any of us everyday for childminding without explanation he disapeared at meal times, leaving us to throw his food out, when we checked out we found his room was filthy and he refused to clean it, we needed to pay €30 to the owners to have it cleaned.Left outstanding bills on his car hire which the gite owner had to settle on his behalf.
He was the person from hell.
This was 2.5 years ago and he still refuses to pay a penny and denies he owes anyone any money at all so he had a totally free weeks holiday in France, free childcare and food. Subsequently this has caused a huge family rift and I have not spoken to him since and will not speak to him again.
Huge piece of advice, you can choose your friends but not your family.

Hey orzo808 we could be related, you sure its not the same guy ?
Muck

ec

I haven't had this problem, but (if I were the invited person) I would certainly not be presumptuous and expect my sibling to pay for "my costs". If anything, I would chip in more than my share b/c they were nice enough to invite me to go along. If I didn't have the $, then I would know that my sibling would be inviting me to go along on the trip out of the goodness of his/her heart. IF there is a next time, I would agree w/ hightide & get the financial situation straightened out b/4 the trip.

ira

Hi orzo,

As noted, you can choose your friends but not your family.

I suggest that you write your brother (less likely to get into a shouting match) and explain that you had not planned on giving him a free trip and inviting him to pay his share..

I would be especially unhappy with the phone calls.

If he doesn't respond, you can choose whether you wish to speak to him ever again.

Seamus

Miss Manners would likely respond by asking if, when you invite someone for dinner, you present them with a check at the end of the evening. OK, a bit facile, but you get the point. If you issue a social invitation to someone you are agreeing to host - i.e., beresponsible to provide whatever is involved in the social function. At a dinner party you have some control because people are not likely to get up form the table and invade your kitchen to preapare an alternate menu, for example. Pretty much everyone knows what is expected of them at a dinner party and behaves accordingly (boors excepted), but it is not as common to receive an "invitation" for such travel, so it is esssential - and, I would venture, incumbent on the host - to lay out clearly what is and is not included in the invitation. Of course there are parallel expectations of guest behavior, but if it is indeed a situation without clear precedent, it is only reasonable to spell out the expectations up front. This both prevents the hosting party from being sandbagged with unexpected expenses and the guest from being put in a situtation where they are unable (or unwilling) to bear the cost of something.
And now I must go rinse out the opera length gloves and supervise the polishing of the candelabra...
P.S. Often you are only as big a sucker as you let yourself be. After the first call, why did you let him use the cell phone again?

MrAmazed

I'm in agreement with Seamus. You allowed yourself to be used in this way. You don't mention meals. Did your brother perhaps pick up some of the meal tabs? I'm trying to imagine all 5 of you in hotel rooms. And I think it would be appropriate to present him with the cell phone charges.

jimmyk64

Sounds like your brother shouldn't be left out alone, orzo. He doesn't sound like he has ANY social skills. But, then again, the world is full of free loaders;, most of them just don't get the chance to go on the cuff for an entire foreign vacation. He's probably a nice guy, all in all, so just chalk the experience up as a life lesson and try to forgive him his faults.

got1tiel

what i dont understand from the OP is why you invited him along in the first place? is he the cool uncle? the party animal? fun to be around? does he know all about europe? maybe he thinks he did you guys a favour by hanging out with you? think about it.

orzo808

The reason why we invited him along because he always wanted to go somewhere, but never had the opportunity. He did pay for his own meals, but there were times we picked up the tab for that too.

janis

orzo808: "invited" needs to be defined. Of course any reasonable guest would offer to chip in a bit at least - but if you did in fact "invite" him w/o laying out the expectations up front, what did you expect?

If it was a mutual trip, the division of costs, itinerary, accomodations, etc should have all been discussed and agreed upon ahead of time.

But if you made all the arrangements and just asked him to join you I can see why he may have felt he was your guest.

I have never had any problems like that even when I end up doing all or most of the planning/arrangements. I keep everyone updated on what they owe and when and don't leave them guessing what is expected . . . . . .

Patrick

Placing blame doesn't help, of course, but in this case it really is 95% your fault. If you never said a word about his paying and you did invite him, why wouldn't he think you were paying for it? On the other hand, I'd think only a real clod wouldn't have said somewhere along the line, "let me buy this dinner" or "are you sure I can't chip in for the cost of the hotel?"

kbrennan

Whenever we travel with relatives or friends, we decide in advance of the trip who pays for what and how costs will be split or shared. This makes the trip much more pleasant - no wondering who will be responsible for bills and checks.
Oh, and although we have been "invited" on trips with other people, we have NEVER presumed that we would not have to share costs!

mv_rd

When I usually invite a friend or a relative, I'm upfront about what the cost will be. However, this is a reason why I would rather travel alone with my husband or my sister. My sister and I are very open so even when we go out to dinner, we split the cost, unless one of us has offered to pay.
I have gone on trips with a big group where some people don't want to pitch in when it comes to paying for a taxi or a round of drinks when it's their turn. It's really annoying & sometimes friendships can be ruined this way. Therefore we travel alone or just invite my sister and her boyfriend who don't expect us to pay for their share.

LoveItaly

orzo, I guess this is one of lifes experiences that can be put under the "learn by experience" catagories.

As all others have said, this should have been discussed before the trip. But you did not know to do this and I sure understand. We went on a cruise once with very dear friends. At each port my DH hired a private car and driver as it was less expensive then paying for the cruise tour and gave us freedom to see what we wanted to see. The other husband did not want to even leave the ship (to expensive etc. etc.) But once my DH had the private car and driver arrangements worked out guess who were the first to jump in the car? And many other irritating and thoughtless things happened also.

Should we have sat down and had a discussion before the cruise. Of course, but it didn't enter our minds that the other husband did not want to go on a tour, to get a taxi, to hire a private car and driver. That he did not want to leave the ship.

Oh, the other husband grumbled to my DH after every land trip that my DH tipped the driver to much (of course the other husband never even offerred to pay part of the tip. Too funny, as I look back on it.

Orzo, I think what I would do in your situation is ask your brother to reimburse for his cell phone calls. And I would just chalk the rest up to a bad experience that you hopefully will never have again.

I do hope you had a beautiful trip in spite of this problem.

nibblette

Finding good travel companions, whether friends or relatives, is hard (see previous fodors thread). My family is great about splitting costs without even having to say anything. When someone provides the lodging, the others pitch in where they can (meals, cleaning, cooking, etc).

Usually the difficult times come when the invitee makes less money (or just believes he/she is making less) that the pitching in does not occur (even with chores!). Traveled with someone who though she was responsible for her portion, still expected the rest of the group to supplement her. She claimed to be less well-off (though she mananged to find money to shop for herself frequently). She even started to do that in the US at dinners, even with pay increases! Solution: no more invites to her (she did complain about being left out. Oh, well!).

nibblette

I also beleive that your brother should pay for his phone costs.

A related question: when renting a car/flat with others, how do people usually split the costs? I rented a car with a couple who only paid for half of the costs instead of 2/3. I've always split costs according to how many people there are total. How do others address this?

ira

>I've always split costs according to how many people there are total. How do others address this?<

Five people get in a car, the cost is split five ways.

Five people rent a villa, the cost is split 5 ways. (Assuming, of course, that the rooms are equivalent.)

A cook comes in to do a dinner for five, the cost is split 5 ways.

A single is only 1/2 a couple.

SusanP

Of course, this should have been discussed ahead of time. But one thing, orzo, you mention that your brother had wanted to travel but hadn't had the opportunity before. Is that because he couldn't afford to do it before? Maybe he figured you knew he couldn't afford it, and since you INVITED him, that he wasn't responsible for those costs. If I were to invite someone on a trip, I would never assume that they knew what I was thinking about splitting costs or not splitting costs. (We have traveled many times with my parents, so I've had plenty of experience, although my parents would never dream of letting us pay for everything, especially since it was in time shares and they didn't pay anything for the room.) I do think it would not be out of line of ask him to pay for his phone calls.