Mary D

My husband and I are going to Europe in August with another couple. We are arriving in London and staying for 3 nights, taking the Eurostar to Paris, and staying in Paris for 5 nights. My husband and I have been to these locations previously, but the other couple has not. I am a planner and would like to start plotting everything out. I do not need sight-seeing ideas as much as I need advice on planning methodology for a "2 couple trip." <BR> <BR>To get to the point, we are great friends with our fellow travelers and would like to remain so afterwards. I am trying to restrain myself so I do not "railroad" over the other couple. <BR> <BR>Ho w to plan? Pick certain days or sites to see together, plan each day separately as couples, find common sites of interest and plan those together, go our separate ways, or plan all days together? Do you suggest everyone making lists or getting to see 3 or 4 top choices? <BR> <BR>My husband's idea is the top choice method in which everyone gets their three or four top choices scheduled and then we move on to fitting in the "nice to sees." I am leaning towards planning separately except for some London sites and some daytrips from Paris. <BR> <BR>Has anyone ever been to Europe in this mini-group situation? What has worked for you, or what are your ideas so that everyone has a good time, comes back with some good memories and sees their preferred sites? <BR> <BR>

kathy

How lucky you are, Mary, having such good friends. Until this year, we traveled with our good friends to Ireland (twice), England, Germany and Italy - a quick trip to Poland - and in the U.S. Our method is easy and works for us: We each list "must-see" sites first and plan to visit them. Everyone has several inputs - and some are the same. Then we divide & number the area we want to visit into 4ths - each drawing a number. We each are responsible for planning a day (or whatever time equally available) as tour guide in our area (which includes the must-sees). The other three are usually surprised at what we might have missed or overlooked if only one person did the planning - I am also the planner and by nature take charge. This gives all four of us the chance to "shine" and we all like different things, so variety is the word. It works great for us - and we remain flexible enough to scrap the plan if we discover something else we prefer doing. We use the 1/4-system as a guide, not a mandate. Before we leave, we have several "planning parties" just to get us all in sync. (an excuse to get together and put our enthusium in high gear). Just a suggestion. Enjoy your trip. Unfortunately, this year our friends are not going and we are traveling as a twosome again to Paris and Brussels in early May - we'll miss their company. <BR>

elaine

<BR>Here are my opinions, in no particular order. <BR>First, even though you didn't bring it up, is finances. Do discuss them before you go. It is such an unnecessarily touchy topic, but less awkward before you go than after. You probably go out to dinner occasionally at home and always agree to split the check or take turns paying, but on a trip there are more meals and more expenses. Are you going to charge or pay cash? Do you all drink wine and cocktails? Is one person a much bigger or smaller eater than the others? Do you all consider breakfast and lunch a necessity? Do you all prefer the same price level of restaurants? There are usually three approaches to the finances: split every bill on the spot; ask for separate checks; or, take turns picking up the tabs, keep receipts,and figure out all the meal and incidental expenses after you get home, and reimburse as necessary. If you don't decide this in advance, what often happens is that one couple gallantly grabs the dinner check and says "We'll take care of it now and work it out later." The next day the other couple pays for lunch or cocktails. However,this rarely works out exactly evenly. It's not an issue if money is not a problem for either couple, but resentments can build up. If $50 or $100 between friends is something you can all put up with, then there's no need to nickel and dime everything, but what if the differences add up to more than that? Just asking. <BR> <BR>As to itinerary, I suggest you all come up with your top priorities for sightseeing and then get together to discuss them. You've been there before, how do you feel about seeing the Louvre or the Tower of London again. Or what if you want to spend all afternoon in the Musee D'Orsay and they want to leave after an hour? Or what if they must see the Costume Museum and you have no interest? I'm sure they are close friends and wonderful people, but none of you (perhaps not even the respective spouses!) are used to spending 16 hours a day together. So do together the things you all want to see, and separate for the things you don't. It's fine, you'll have more to talk about over dinner if you've had different experiences. <BR> <BR>Do you all have the same styles? All early risers, or late-afternoon nappers? <BR>Do they think of themselves as spontaneous while you think they are <BR>sweet but disorganized? Do you want to stick to an itinerary while they want to while away an afternoon in a pub or cafe? <BR> <BR>They may be happy to have you plan everything (or not), but will you end up resenting it if you are responsible for all the details, all the arrangements, all the shepherding from one place to another? <BR> <BR>And watch out for those day trips. Will you drive, or take a tour? If you drive, you know tempers can flare if you get lost, or don't know how to drive on the left, or drive in circles in London trying to find the rental office to return the car. Driving will be more cost efficient than tour expenses for four, but not all costs are monetary. <BR> <BR>Above are all the caveats, but I'm sure you will have wonderful memories of this trip. Good luck <BR> <BR>

lynn

Hi Mary - <BR> <BR>I have a similar situation coming up at the end of this month. My husband and I are taking his kids (boys 18 and 19) to Paris for Spring Break. We have been but the boys have not. <BR> <BR>Being that we are adults and they are kids, we, in general, have different interests. Probably similar to how 2 couples would have different interests. However, some things are universal such as Louvre, Eiffel Tower, Notre Dame, etc. All the major sites. <BR> <BR>What I'm doing is planning a rough schedule for the morning/early afternoon, say 10 a.m. to 2 p.m. with the major sites, and then leaving the rest of the day open. <BR> <BR>I'm planning things for my husband and I to do after this (things that I think would be generally less fun for the kids) and the kids came come with us if they want. If they're not interested, than they can go off on their own and explore. <BR> <BR>You might have a "planning party" like suggested above and have everyone agree on the major sites. Even though you've been, you probably would like to see some of them again. <BR> <BR>Then, you can tell them you were thinking of your a morning schedule and free afternoons and evenings and see what they say. <BR> <BR>Of course, always leave it flexible. And some things, like Eiffel Tower, are best seen at sunset/evening, so you might have to "meet up" for that if you don't spend the day together. <BR> <BR>We'll be back on Easter Sunday so I try to report back how this all worked out for us. <BR> <BR>One more quick note, absolutely discuss the money situation before you go. I fully agree with above posting on that issue. <BR> <BR>Have Fun! <BR> <BR>

marilyn

Dear Mary, <BR> <BR>You have gotten some great advice here! We used to have a "best friends" couple we traveled with to Europe and Mexico, in the days before kids, and I still miss the fun we had! Of far more importance than "planning" or not is whether you have the same STYLE of travel: Do you eat the same meals at the same time and in the same level of restaurant, do you enjoy each other's company, who speaks French (and will by default get to do some of the nitty gritty, etc.) I have ALSO traveled with a couple who we were NOT as friendly with, and found myself being constantly irritated by the wife's assumption that she and I would do stuff and our husbands would do stuff together--I had NOT come to Mexico to spend large blocks of time with her instead of my husband! <BR> <BR>What worked best for us was eating breakfast together and going to see one pre-planned site, eating lunch, and then playing it by ear for the rest of the day before meeting again in the evening. We took turns picking up checks because money was not an issue (our friends had wanted to just give us all the money and let us be treasurer, but that was a little TOO free-flowing for us!) <BR> <BR>My husband was the only one of us who spoke French, so he did feel a little burdened after 15 days of being the one who had to ask the questions AND interpret the answers! But on the whole we had a GREAT time because nobody was shy about voicing their wants and needs and nobody blamed anybody if there were snafus.

michele

I would echo the others'advice...are you the same sort of travelers? My parents, who are ardent travelers, took a vacation years ago with their then best friends. It was a disaster. Why? because none of them had the same attitudes or habits (early risers versus late risers, unadventurous eaters versus adventurous eaters, people with an interest in art and history and those with none (just want to shop types). So, it's not how long you've known your travel mates, but how well...

Ken

This is an interesting topic as I am also planning a trip to Switzerland this summer. I'm a planner and like to have things well organized. It started out with my family (two daughters ages 8 & 11), and then our other friends thought it was a great idea. We have five couples, and a total of 5 kids, who have now rented apartments in two neighboring chalets for one week in the Bernese Oberland. We've had a couple of planning parties complete with slides from other trips and have talked about what we're interested during our week together in the Alps. We will have two cars, a large van, and the regional rail/transportation pass to give individual members of the group flexibility in going in different directions for activities on at least some days. <BR>While we're looking forward to having a wonderful time together, we decided not to spend all of our time in Europe as a group. We have this first week together in Switzerland, and then we will go our separate ways. My family and I will spend another two and a half weeks in Germany, Austria, and Venice, while others are going to France, Rome, etc. <BR>I think that spending all of our time together would have resulted in too many compromises as to the locations to visit and things to do. We think our approach is going to work out well. <BR> <BR>Good luck to everyone with their trips!