JenLee

My husband and I will be spending 12 nights in Italy in early summer. We will fly into Venice and spend 3 nights before moving onto Florence for 3 nights, then Rome for 5 nights before concluding our trip with 3 nights in Positano. We will fly back out of Naples.

Our air and hotels are booked. Our transportation is not. Originally, my plan was to buy first class tickets on the trains, but I am reading loads of negative stories about theft on Italian trains. We are not unaware travelers, however, I hear the thieves are becoming more brazen and aggressive in Italy and I prefer not to be stressed out from worry over protecting my luggage on these trains. As we move from destination to destination, we will be forced to carry everything of value on the trains. (When I say value, I mean our passports, camera + lenses, and personal effects).

Is it true the luggage gets put on a separate car? Is there a better time of day to travel on trains? Can your luggage remain with you in First Class? Are certain trains better than others? I am thinking the high-speed trains, but I haven't researched the trains enough to know all the available options to my needed cities. Any advice?

Also, has anyone used a private car service for transport? The feedback I have gotten about Naples is disturbing and I'd rather just avoid the hassle of training from Rome to the Naples train center if I'm going to be harassed. My Positano hotel offers a car service from Rome to the hotel and, although more expensive, it may be worth the peace of mind?

Any advice would be appreciated, but please skip any snarky comments or condescending remarks. Thanks in advance for your time.

jamikins

I've used tonnes of trains in Italy (and the UK, France etc). Theft is a problem, but in general are very safe. Just take some precautions.

There are generally places to put luggage near the entrances in each carriage. There are usually overhead spaces as well, and on some trains spaces between the seats - so if you want your luggage in those spaces be sure to bring a smaller suitcase and that you can lift it above your head. If its not a busy train, just bring the suitcases close to you but ensure they arent blocking the aisle or taking up seats if people need them.

You can also take a bike lock and lock them together. Thieves are opportunistic so if yours are locked to each other and then even the steel bar then they wont grab yours. Just make sure you give yourself time to unlock them before your stop cause they dont make long stops.

We always travel 2nd class with no problems. Also helps to try to sit next to the luggage rack so you can watch your luggage. If you are really concerned then one of you can go sstand beside it as the train stops to ensure no one grabs it and exits with it.

To be honest I have been on Fodors for 8 years now and cannot recall anyone coming back and reporting a theft on a train - not to say it doesnt happen, but I dont believe its a HUGE issue.

Enjoy your travels!

jamikins

Oh meant to add - trains are definitely the way to go - and then a car transfer is certainly easiest between Naples and Positano.

greg

Theft is not limited to train travel. There are many other opportunities you lose valuables outside the train travel. For example, if you take bus #64 in Rome, the Heaven to Hell express, you are probably far more likely to be pickpocketed there than riding high speed trains. If you are not protected from common types of losses, you probably need to start a new thread. You get all sorts of divergent opinions.

Let me categorically answer and comment your many questions.

we will be forced to carry everything of value on the trains. You carry everything, not just things of value.

Is it true the luggage gets put on a separate car? Not true unless you put luggage on a separate car. Whether you can keep all you luggage with you have to do with how much you are carrying and how much space you happen to have on that train. If you are traveling with just carry-on luggage each, you can usually keep everything near you. If you are a heavy packer, you will have to leave the big luggage at the end of your car away from your view.

Is there a better time of day to travel on trains? This is probably not as relevant consideration as how well the travel time integrates into your overall schedule.

I haven't researched the trains enough to know all the available options to my needed cities. There are slower trains and bus options, but if the high speed train cost is not an overriding concern, the high speed trains offers a good protected access. Pickpockets don't usually ride high speed trains since they are expensive and the fare inspectors make sure they don't get free rides.

Also, has anyone used a private car service for transport? I have used private car service between Napoli and Sorrento mostly because the train between them was very uncomfortable. If the cost is not a concern, you can certainly take a car service all the way from Rome to Positano. I presume you are looking at something in the range of €350-€500.

A_Brit_In_Ischia

During many holidays, and close on nine years of living down near Naples, we've found the railways here generally very safe.

But those who don't get to Italy often, and anyone unaccustomed to travelling by public transport, may do well to read this advice leaflet from Trenitalia's railway police - the Polizia Ferroviaria...

http://www.fsnews.it/cms-file/allega.../Polfer_06.pdf

Pretty basic, though just the sort of stuff that we're all likely to overlook in the excitement of the moment?

For a sight of the sort of trains you'd probably be taking, try Trenitalia's monthly magazine for Freccia passengers - some of which is in English, plus pictures! A fairly big file, that may take a minute or two to arrive, but for the edition available today just click on the "Scarica La Freccia di Dicembre in pdf" link here...

http://www.fsnews.it/cms/v/index.jsp...008916f90aRCRD

Peter

JenLee

First, thank you all for your generous advice! And thank you @A_Brit_in_Ischia for the links which were quite informative (and the photographs were wonderful).

Perhaps I am being paranoid? I wasn't too concerned until I started receiving feedback from friends who said they felt that the petty theft in Italy was a bigger problem for tourists today than 15-20 years ago. Their comments led me to the Rick Steve's Italy forum which has pages of theft accounts written by tourists as well as many tales of dishonest police officers, merchants, and train employees.

In looking at the Trenitalia website, it appears that I won't be able to take the high speed trains from Venice--->Florence--->Rome and the only high speed option from Rome to Naples departs after 9PM at night which would not be an option for us. Are the intercity trains my only option? And are those trains usually standing room only during June?

A_Brit_In_Ischia

No, you're doing something wrong!

Probably it's either from looking too far ahead, or not resetting the time of day at which you'd be travelling for each search?

And there's a map of Freccia lines on or around page 160 of their magazine - some are Freccargento rather than FrecciaRossa, but not so very different!

Peter

jamikins

I am not sure where you are finding that information but there are definitely high speed trains (eurostars) between Venice and Florence, and Florence and Rome. I also believe there are high speed trains regularly from Rome to Naples...

greg

You are looking at date too far ahead where Trenitalia has not yet loaded the full schedule.

Look at same day of the week in January. The train schedule does not vary that much between seasons.

JenLee

Whew...Thank goodness! The only thing showing up was a night train from Venice to Florence. Hopefully I can book 60 days out without issue.

Thanks for all the wonderful insight!

Michel_Paris

as an aside, IMHO you should always carry items of value when transiting on your person/carry-on. Therefore, at worse, you lose your clothes/toileteries, but not your capacity to travel and recover.

Zerlina

There are Eurostar trains about once an hour from Venice to Florence, about twice an hour from Florence to Rome and about once an hour from Rome to Naples.

Schedules change in June, probably on June 10. The new Eurostar schedules should be available in late May. Look at current schedules to see frequency; it's unlikely to change much.

If you want to avoid getting off the train in Naples, there are Eurostars to Salerno, and you can have a driver pick you up there instead and also drive you from Positano to Naples airport.

Your anxiety seems to have spread from theft on trains to theft and dishonesty in general. No one will deny that pickpocketing does occur in crowded situations or that there are some dishonest police officers, merchants or train employees (although the last are sometimes perceived as dishonest when they apply - perfectly legal - fines). Still, millions of tourists go to Italy every year without experiencing any problems beyond being overcharged in restaurants and bars (where the feeling of being "overcharged" is sometimes due to lack of understanding of the rules according to which Italian restaurants and bars operate, which are the same whether the clients are Italians or visitors).

nytraveler

Luggage does NOT go in a separate car. It's your luggage and you have to haul it on and off the train and keep it with you. Small bags go in overhead racks. Larger ones can go under your seat or behind it or at the end of the car. If you are taking anything larger than a 24" I would get a padlock and chain, make sur eyou are first n the train - and chain your luggage to the rack at the end of the car.

easytraveler

You might want to start your self-protective measures before you've even gotten to an Italian train.

First of all, for 12 days, how much luggage do you really need?

I've traveled around Europe for a month with only a 20"/21" wheelie and a Rick Steves Civita backpack (it's so lightweight and can carry so much!). Travel light. There are lots of threads here on Fodors on what and how to pack.

Secondly except for some items, such as cameras and possibly some kind of phone/computer, take only those items which you won't mind much if they were stolen. This means no jewelry, no one-of-a-kind-anything that you'll cry buckets if it were lost or stolen, etc.

I carry my most essential things in a moneybelt - passport, credit cards, travelers' checks, cash. Outside of the moneybelt, i carry one credit card and enough cash for that one day and usually in a secure pocket. Find something like the Travex pants, which has a zipped mesh pocket inside one of the pants pockets. It's very secure.

Thirdly, when you're on the train, one of you should always stay awake. You should always have your backpack with you, with all the bulkier items (camera, computer) inside as well as a change of clothing, especially the small clothing.

If I'm travelling alone on a train and have to go to the restroom, I always ask a fellow passenger to keep an eye out on my suitcase. No one has ever refused me - so far. Most of your fellow travelers are your friends.

If you are walking around, try wearing the backpack on your front instead of on your back.

Happy travels! And don't worry too much! Just a few precautions and you'll have a great trip!

wayfinder45

Definitely no need to splurge for first class on the high speed trains if you are looking to feel more secure -- 2nd class is fine.

Mimar

I agree with most everything easytraveler says. But I wouldn't bring any travelers' checks. They're very difficult to cash. Hotels, restaurants and most banks won't take them. You'll have to pay to buy them (fee + exchange rate) and then again to cash them. For cash use ATM cards; for bigger expenses use credit cards. And, as et says, keep those cards on you in your money belt inside your clothes.

I think you're worrying too much about theft. Take reasonable precautions and then concentrate on enjoying yourself.

Johnnlilian

Can a carry-on luggage fit overhead?

jnjfraz

Perhaps I am being paranoid? I wasn't too concerned until I started receiving feedback from friends who said they felt that the petty theft in Italy was a bigger problem for tourists today than 15-20 years ago

Yes, you are being too paranoid, but it is also very important to keep track of your belongings and if you are a person that daydreams then you will have a problem.

It is Italian law that Passports are with you at all times, so keep you passports, credit cards and drivers license with you and if you are bothered by a purse then buy one of those under clothing things that hang on your neck or around your waist. Photo copy all of those items and leave the copies with someone at home, make sure you tell your cards that you are leaving the country. Do not take travelers checks as they will cost you a ton of money. Find out the rate on your bank card and if reasonable use that in the bancomat machine. We have found that one of the best credit card rates is Capital One.

Luggage on the trains. You will be slogging it on and off the train and it will be right next to you in any part of the train. The 1st vs 2nd is mainly to do with how comfortable the seats are.

Your most vulnerable with be when you are distracted getting on or off a train or bus, so just be aware of your surroundings and protect your stuff.... less luggage is always better and more managable.

Sassafrass

If you carry money, credit cards and passport on your person (I like a neck bag tucked inside my top, but others hate it and like a money belt), and have only clothes, shoes, etc. in you luggage, it might be annoying but not devastating to lose it. I never take expensive jewelry, watches, etc. on trips - just too much agravation to worry about it and let it spoil my trip. The only thing I carry in a small day pack or back pack is guide books, umbrella, pen and notebook, scarf or gloves, water bottle, etc., absolutely nothing I would cry over if it were lost or stolen. Makes it less stressful to have nothing of value to be taken.

One other thing that might make it easier if something is stolen. DH and I each pack one change of clothes in the other's luggage. Then if one gets lost or stolen, at least we still each have a change of clothes.

Michael

In case the luggage is not in the overhead rack above your seats, get a thin bicycle chain to chain your luggage together so that it cannot be carried out comfortably. You might even be able to wrap the chain around a post or through the luggage rack for greater security. As for valuable such as the passport, you should carry them on your person and you are not likely to be assaulted on the trains.

We traveled second class in Italy last summer and had no problems whatsoever.