Best hub in Italy
 

Dear all,

Here's my itinerary for our 13 day Switzerland and Italy trip this Summer (Jul 09).We plan to spend 3 days in Switzerland and 10 days in Italy as follows:

Travel Party:
2 Adults and 2 Kids

Switzerland Cities:
Zurich: 1 day
Bern: 1 day (day trip from Zurich)
Lucerne: 1 day (day trip from Zurich)

Clearly I need a 4 day Swiss Family Pass (2 for the day trips and 1 each for the to and fro between Milan and Zurich).

Italy Cities:
Milan: Quick stop over to see the Duomo (on our way from Zurich to Venice)
Venice: 2 days
Florence: 2 days (Pisa day trip)
Rome/Vatican: 5 days (Day Trip to Naples/Pompei)

Option # 1:
Take a 6 day Eurail Italy Flex Saver Pass and move from city to city and check-in to a hotel in each city (Venice, Rome and Florence)

Option # 2:
Take a 10 day Eurail Italy Flex (or consecutive whichever is less expensive) Saver Pass but stay in a single hub city (like Bologna for example)

Considerations:
- The rail pass difference between the two options is $300.
- If I stay at a lower cost (it's all relative) hub like Bologna, I have to save at least $300 in hotel rates which may be possible.

Question:
- If staying in a single city and travelling every day by train (3 hr radius one way) was a consideration which cities would you recommend?

I am researching Bologna and we have to reserve two rooms (for a family of 4) in most hotels and some of the better hotels like Portico Hotel will be 99 Euros per room per night. Is that going to be cheaper than renting a hotel in Rome/Venice/Florence? We don't mind the train travel and it will be on ES*Italia so we know the journey will be comfortable (except a regional trip to Pisa and From Naples to Pompei).

Thoughts?

Regards,
Nick

Nick,
You may be better served staying put and really exploring one city for a couple of nights. I think your plan of 2 nights in Venice, 2 nights in Florence and 5 nights in Rome sounds good. Not sure if you want to squeeze in Pisa as well. That sounds like it would be pretty tight -especially with all that there is to see in Florence. Bologna is a wonderful city too, but i think you would be wasting a lot of time on a train if you used that for your base everyday. Also take into consideration that of the time the trains can be delayed.
I hope this is helpful.

Well I wouldn't stay in Zurich which is really a business city. Stay in Lucerne instead and you're right on the spot of some of the attractions (Lake and Mts Pilatus and Titlis) and much closer to the Berner Oberland. IMHO Bern is OK but, not much compared to the mountains - and esp the Jungfrau is possible.

Overall I think just way to many places in so few days, esp traveling with kids. You don;t give their ages. If younger you need to allow some time for them to just be kids and play. If older theywill probably want to do some things beyond just big cities.

I wouldn't stay in Zurich either. I would train on to Lucerne. I'm not familiar with the Swiss pass, but perhaps someone else will chime in on whether it's cost effective for such short/few trips.

Option # 3 - NO PASS for Italy
As for a pass for Italy, they are almost never cost effective since Italian trains are so cheap and offer family discounts (20% off). To use a pass in Italy for the faster trains (AV,ES, ICPlus), you must pay a supplement because the trains are reserved seat only and passes don't include seats. For AV trains the supplement is 20€ each person. For ES it's 15€. 2nd class is fine on the faster Italian trains and you would be seated with your two people facing the other two and a table inbetween to share. Buying tickets directly from Trenitalia (the Italian train company), yours seats will be included in the price for the AV/ES/ICPlus trains.
http://www.trenitalia.com/cms/v/inde...0080a3e90aRCRD

Each leg of your Venice/Florence/Rome trip will cost about 30€ for ES trains BEFORE the family discount. That's only 60€ per person. Trenitialia is also offering deals on same day AV/ES round trips for 35% off so a round trip from Rome to Naples would only cost about 39€. A 6 day saver pass is 170€ + you would have to pay about 150€ in seat supplement fees.

As for stopping in Milan to visit the Duomo, that is more trouble than it's worth. You have a long day from Zurich to Venice (6-7 hours train time) and you would need to store your luggage at Milano Centrale before you could go to the Duomo. Just too much hassle with kids on a long day.

Commuting up to 3hrs each way for 9 straight days is not something I'd ever fathom. For me it'd get old after the 1st day.

If you're visiting Rome, stay in Rome. Ditto for Venice. Ditto for Florence.

Have you looked into renting an apartment? I'm confident you can do that for 4d in Rome - you might run into >2 night min stays in Florence & Venice but it's worth a shot. For a family of 4 this can save quite a bit of $, as you can eat in quite cheaply for 2 meals a day, or even a light dinner for that one night everyone is just too tired to go out to a restaurant.

www.slowtrav.com is a great place to start for apartment rental info.

I can only comment on the Italy portion of your trip.

I would skip Milan and head directly to Venice.

You will not need a pass for train travel in Italy. It is much cheaper to buy point to point tickets at the rail stations. You can buy tickets for all travel at the Venice train station.

Nick, I forgot to add- do not stay in Bologna and try to do day trips to Venice and Florence. It would be a major mistake.

Enjoy your trip!

The comments above are correct. I went to Switzerland two times before I finally got it right! The first time I went to Luzern, the second time Bern, the third time Grindelwald and the Bernese Oberland. (Fourth time to Zermatt). I wish I would have gone to the BO the first time! Skip Zurich and Bern and head to the beauty of the BO! If you are into seeing some of the most beautiful scenery on earth, you need to spend some significant time in the Bernese Oberland. Luzern was great, but BO better (IMO).

momo24:
Good point on train delays. I assumed trains in Europe are mostly on time (we just did South of Germany and Austria and most of the ICE and Regional trains were on time). But I do have to account for delays which would eat into our sight-seeing time.

nytraveler:
The kids are 11 and 6 and used to a lot of travel. We did Japan in 10 days and 7 cities from Tokyo to Hiroshima with bases in Narita and Kyoto. I guess they got our genes as we are all up at 6:30 and come back at 8:30 or 9:00.. Our logic, we spend all this money to experience the culture and see historic sights.. if we want to relax we do it at home...

kybourbon:
Thanks for option # 3. I have to check that out and see what the cost differential is between point to point and pass. I used raileurope.com and the P2P tickets on ES Italia were way expensive compared to pass+supplement.. But I need to check Trenitalia and explore that further. Thanks.

J62:
I checked into apartments but for some reason the ones I saw I don't feel safe. We have never rented appartments, instead we always choose 3 star hotel near the train station so it is easy to get in and out. However let me check slowtrav site as you suggest (at least for Rome).

zoecat:
Thanks for the suggestion. The only reason I thought of Duomo in Milan as a stop over was to stretch after a 3:41 hr train ride from Zurich (albeit on a Cisalpino which ain't shabby).. But the baggage alert is a valid one..I was thinking of dragging it to the Duomo and back but now that I think about it it is impractical and I just read that Milan's train station is going through construction or some sort and baggage storage is outside of the main station. Ouch!

Masterphil and "nytraveler"..
Thanks for the suggestions on BO, I think I may squeeze that one in in place of Bern or Zurich.

Thanks all for the great suggestions and prompt responses. I appreciate it and I will report back on what my final itinerary ends up being after due considerations to all pros and cons.

Nick

Are you just using sites like Rail Europe to price tickets? If so, you should go directly to each country's train company website and price them. I don't see a family pass on the Swiss website. There is a junior card that lets kids travel free.
http://mct.sbb.ch/mct/en/reisemarkt/...te/halbtax.htm

Kids travel free in Switzerland with the purchase of an adult flex pass, so if I get a 2 adult pass my 2 kids should be able to travel free within Switzerland on most routes (although some special panorama tour trains may be excluded). Here's the link: http://www.ricksteves.com/rail/ausswitz.htm

nickbhat - That doesn't mean it's a good deal just because the kids are traveling free. If you are overpaying by buying a pass you don't really need, then it's not saving you money. You need to go on sbb.ch (Swiss rail site) and Trenitalia.com (Italian rail site) and price the point-to-point tickets. Another option is to use www.railsaver.com and be sure to click "only if a pass saves me money".