best guidebook for France and Italy

Old Jun 4th, 2009, 08:19 AM
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"Rough Guide and Lonely Planet... terrible on restaurants and hotels" Not necessarily. If you want to pay for 4 or 5 star hotels, probably. But the OP is 18-19, almost certainly on a budget, and will be much more likely to meet people her/his age in LP or RG's lower end listings. Personally, I find LP's mid-range listings usually work out well for me. I don't need an elevator, a bell boy, a concierge, an on-site restaurant or room service, and see no need to pay for them.
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Old Jun 4th, 2009, 08:42 AM
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I always found Rough Guide and Lonely Planet linited on their choices for restaurants and lodging. By the time you read any guide book's suggestions it is at least a year old since the last visit if not three. By the time they review, edit, publish, and distribute places may evaporate thus the need for more recommendations.

The problem with Rick Steves is a simplistic view of touring combined with incorrect facts, greivous omissions, and inane assessments. Other than that I highly recommend him.

To the original poster-

Your writing is highly conversational and informal, giving the impression you are cavalier about your questions and nonchalant about the responses.

You write:
forgive me, as a teenager i like to defy....LOTS

Defiance can be useful especially when applied to specific situations and people, but when conceding a general attitude it discourages others from helping you and explains why you do things alone. It is a self fulfilling phrophesy.
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Old Jun 4th, 2009, 09:11 AM
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well it's not that i am nonchalant about the answers, i am grateful for the answers provided i do consider them I looked all them up on barnes & noble and borders to check the prices online, there are stores about (i was gonna say "like" >.
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Old Jun 4th, 2009, 09:24 AM
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This was the 6th defintion from Dictionary.com for cavalier when used as an adjective:

offhand or unceremonious: The very dignified officials were confused by his cavalier manner.
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Old Jun 4th, 2009, 09:44 AM
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"By the time you read any guide book's suggestions it is at least a year old since the last visit if not three" Hardly unique to RG and LP, though. And if you're going to accuse the OP of being offhand, you might want to get your own spelling correct first (it's grievous).
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Old Jun 4th, 2009, 10:05 AM
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I consider Rick Steves's books essential for my European trips, though plenty of Fodorites here seem to have a fetish for disliking him. Rick gives subjective advice, where as many other guidebooks don't give you an idea of what's really worth seeing and what's not. I don't check every historical tidbit in his books for accuracy, but I find his travel information right on and very helpful.
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Old Jun 4th, 2009, 10:29 AM
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Although I don't use RS's books much any more myself, I think they're good for people just starting to travel. I recommend his "Europe Through the Back Door" for people interested in trying budget travel, and his country books are fine for first-timers. I like the fact that's he's opinionated - my opinions aren't always the same as his, but I know when I'm likely to agree with him, and when not. But he covers too few places, and those places have become too popular.
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Old Jun 4th, 2009, 10:46 AM
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tiger, you don't owe anyone here any explanations! You have asked for advice about travel not your writing style!

Everybody, give it a rest.
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Old Jun 4th, 2009, 10:58 AM
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If you are driving get the Frommer' s series "best Loved driving tours ... - They have them for both countries and even for sections of France(northern France and Italy- very good ideas for places to visit even if you are doing trains. Another series that is good is The Daytirps series by Earl Steinbicker - I know he has them for both France and italy - He gives train times, walking maps etc form central locations (rome, Florence etc) to interesting places
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Old Jun 4th, 2009, 11:06 AM
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thursdaysd: I like the fact that's he's opinionated - my opinions aren't always the same as his, but I know when I'm likely to agree with him, and when not.

Exactly. I too disagree with his opinions at times, but even then I find them helpful, a basis anyway.
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Old Jun 4th, 2009, 11:17 AM
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@TDudette thanks, I appreciate your comment!

everyone one else, thanks so much for the names of the guide books, I'll go to barnes & noble and borders this week, or maybe next week to try to find these, since it has a resting spot there I'll read some of each and decide which would be better for me.

and as for Lonely Planet, are their guides only online? Because I find it hard to read a long piece of writing online, for some reason I don't find them keeping my concentration as much as if they were in book format form or something
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Old Jun 4th, 2009, 11:35 AM
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Dear Thurs

If you equate poor spelling and a lousy attitude than there is little else to discuss.

And of course, all guide books are outdated when written, and that is my point.
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Old Jun 4th, 2009, 12:52 PM
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tiger - no LP is very definitely available in hard copy! But if you only need a chapter, being able to buy just that chapter online and download it, and print it yourself (maybe in a bigger font if your eyesight isn't all it might be) is very useful.

BTW, another couple of publishers I like a lot are Brandt and Footprints, but they're for places more off the beaten track than France and Italy.
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Old Jun 4th, 2009, 01:23 PM
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A major reason that I don't like Rick Steves is that he does not provide a good, comprehensive overview of the destinations he describes. He leaves out a lot and focuses on the places he likes/has researched.

I would think Let's Go or rough guide or Lonely Planet would be good for an 18-19 year old. I used Let's Go (years ago) when I traveled in Europe during college.

The Michelin green guides have the best,most detailed information about major sites but as others have said no restaurant or hotel/hostel information.

The DK Eyewitness guides have great pictures but less information.

If you are near a good bookstore I agree it makes sense to go there to pick out the basic guide or guides you like but would also check out the library to see if you can find others there to supplement.

You might want to check out the Thorn Tree travel forum of the Lonely Planet web site. I think you'd get more info from people roughly your age there (and fewer gratuitous criticisms of your writing style).
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Old Jun 4th, 2009, 01:38 PM
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For Venice, Rome, Florence and Paris- look at the Access Guides by Richard Saul Wurman . I like the way each book breaks the city down into areas with chapters and maps (with corresponding numbers) of each area. I find that this makes it easier for a first timer to explore the cities.

Enjoy your travels!
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Old Jun 4th, 2009, 02:36 PM
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For a smartass-ish 19 year old Rick Steves would suffice.
For a more mature 19 year old Cadogan would illuminate and
entertain.
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Old Jun 4th, 2009, 02:47 PM
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so which one are you calling me then.
I really don't see the point of name calling,
it's quite childish (or child-ish which ever you prefer), since I don't know you.
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Old Jun 4th, 2009, 04:39 PM
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Tiger,
I believe that you leave for Europe in about two weeks. In that case, buy one book - Rick Steves "Back Door to Europe" would be good enough. I'd suggest that you book your first two or three nights hotel or hostel rooms on line. Don't wait until you arrive. You have ledft your planning to the last minute - nothing wrong with that - but it means that you may have some very unexpected experiences.
www.venere.com is an OK site for hotel bookings.
Tip No 1. The student population in Venice hangs out in Campo Margerita in Dorsoduro.

Tip No 2. They drink spritzes. A spritz costs about 2 Euro.

Tip No 3. There is no public drunknessness in Italy. Maybe you don't drink - I don't know - it's just a word of caution.

Tip No. 4. When StCirq suggests you moderate your language, it's just her motherly instincts coming out, (she has children your age) and reflects the general attitudes of people who post on here and are happy to answer questions. Imagine that you are discussing travel at say a glof club and you'll get the picture.

Tip No 5. The Youth Hostel in Venice is OK, but it's located on the Guidecca, which is a five minute ferry ride to San Marco. It's built inside an old grain warehouse.
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Old Jun 4th, 2009, 04:52 PM
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A golf club? LOL! But yes, Peter, it's true I'm coming from that mother-of-young-adults place.

Actually, tiger, here's a thought (and I am assuming you're not fluent in the languages of the countries you're visiting; if I'm wrong, I apologize): If you try to communicate with Europeans and say "like" all the time the way you do when you're writing, they are LIKELY to have a hard time "getting" what you're saying, because to them, if they speak English, "like" is the comparator and a verb and nothing else.

So if you were to say "I'd like to visit Monte Carlo," or "I like beer," they'll get it - that's a verb.

And if you say "My home town is like yours," they'll get it. It's the comparator.

If you say "How much do those, like, bananas cost, and can I, like, pay for them with a Visa card?" they'll be clueless.

The French, particularly in rural areas in the south of the country, have a similar, useless word that they interject when speaking. It's "bomba," and it never fails to throw me completely off balance when I'm conversing with, say, a local farmer. I find myself just focusing on the bombas and not hearing anything else.
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Old Jun 4th, 2009, 05:27 PM
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Tip No 6. Don't take your laptop computer with you. Heavy, valuable, and you have the hassle of finding a wireless hot-spot. You can find an internet cafe in most places - frequently identified by the "@" sign outside.

To use a cafe, you need a lagal ID - passport or drivers licence with photo ID. An hour costs you about 5 Euro.
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