And those boats are just 20-25 minutes by train from Grindelwald or Lauterbrunnen - everything so neat and tidy - short trips from bases ato many places - I am not as familiar with Engadine granted but there seem to be various areas not one coherent compact one.

Pal,

I'm afraid I find your statements to be contradictory. First you said that the Jungfrau region is the "HANDS DOWN" place to go, then later you say:

"No one can say which is better than the other as each is very different IME."

BTW, neither Ingo nor I ever, ever, ever said that the Engadin is a "better" place. We are simply giving the facts against your statement that, "you have many more varied things to see and do in the Grindelwald-Lauterbrunnen-Wengen-Murren area." There is no value in our posts, just some information that travellers can use as they evaluate each place.

You seem to be very concerned over which place is "better" or which one "wins." I really think that's the wrong focus. I think if you just lay out the accurate facts, the visitor will be able to find the place that's right for his/her visit.

You say that "there is a reason the Jungfrau Region sees many many many more foreign visitors . . ." and I would say the reason is better PR, as I noted above.

Also, if you read my post, you'll see that I agree that the Jungfrau area is a good place for a first-time visitor because it has better infrastructure for English-speaking tourists.

And I do think there are many nice, compact areas where one can ascend peaks, visit villages, and see lakes; you could do that at Pontresina or Sils or Zuoz, at least.

s

better to me is for the novice first time traveler seeking the easiest most awesome place and I say IMO yes Jungfrau Region hands-down - but that does not mean that you or ingo cannot sincerely say the Engadine is as neat and compact and awesome - easiness of travel is a factor.

I'll always advise the Jungfrau Region for a first timer and there is a reason why it is by far the most popular place in Switzerland I would think for foreign tourists - how many Asians flock to the Engadine? there are even billboards in Japanese in Grindelwald.

anyway that's my feeling based on multiple trips to the Jungfrau Region - the number one place in Switzerland to fulfill teh dreamy picture of Alpine Switzerland etched in most folks' minds and it's all in a tidy area easy to reach from Zurich Airport.

I'll always advise the Jungfrau Region for a first timer and there is a reason why it is by far the most popular place in Switzerland I would think for foreign tourists - how many Asians flock to the Engadine? there are even billboards in Japanese in Grindelwald.

-- That's my point. Better PR.

the number one place in Switzerland to fulfill teh dreamy picture of Alpine Switzerland etched in most folks' minds

--subjective.

s

I think we all agreed that the original poster cannot go wrong with either region, especially given that they only have two or three nights.

As for Asian groups, of course it's logistically much easier to herd them around in buses to the Jungfrau region. The reason is that the Jungfrau region is at the edge of the Alps, not in the middle of them, as is the Engadine. Another plus for the Engadine, btw. (360° panoramic views of stunning mountains in the Engadine, not so in the Jungfrau region).

Another thing to consider is the PR, as swandav pointed out. with focus on the Jungfraujoch, which is IMO totally overrated and overpriced. You're stuck all the way from Eigergletscher up to Jungfraujoch in a tunnel w/o views (except for the short breaks). Also, I thought the views from the top are not overly exciting - you're on a pass/saddle between two peaks (Mönch and Jungfrau), which block the view in NE and SW direction. There are plenty of - even much lower - mountains from where you have much better views (subjective, of course) - like Schilthorn, Gornergrat, Fronalpstock, Stanserhorn, Piz Mundaun, to name a few. Not to mention some places in the Engadine, which are by far cheaper, more value for money.

But see my first sentence above.

with focus on the Jungfraujoch, which is IMO totally overrated>

as much as as I respect ingo and have over the years I find this statement that the Jungfrau region is TOTALLY overrated hard to swallow or believe the sincerity of such a statement.

Pal, some people think Paris is overrated while other people practically live for their visits there. Some think the Sistine Chapel is overrated while others save their whole lives just to view the masterpiece.

People have different views.

If someone has a view that is different from yours, you really don't have to question its sincerity.

s

And, please, read carefully: Not "Jungfrau region", but "Jungfraujoch"!

Oops - ingo now I understand - my sloppy reading - and with that I may agree - I thought you were meaning the wole Jungfrau Region and that to me was hard to believe - my apologies to the hilt!

Yes I put the Jungfraujoch train and trip right up there along with the Glacier Express as overhyped by PR - but at least at Jungfraujoch you will not be bored once there though going up in tunnels can hardly be called a scenic ride - even with the photo op where you go out on that ledge half-way up or so.

"Also, I thought the views from the top are not overly exciting - you're on a pass/saddle between two peaks (Mönch and Jungfrau), which block the view in NE and SW direction. There are plenty of - even much lower - mountains from where you have much better views (subjective, of course) - like Schilthorn, Gornergrat, Fronalpstock, Stanserhorn, Piz Mundaun, to name a few. Not to mention some places in the Engadine, which are by far cheaper, more value for money."

I fully agree with Ingo although I'm not a fan of Schilthorn. I would rather add Glacier3000, Eggishorn, Bettmergrat, Sidelhorn, Mittelallalin, Testa Grigia, Unterrothorn, Mont Fort, Plaine Morte, Corvatsch, Diavolezza.....
....and if it can be a few miles beyond the Swiss border:
Aiguille du Midi, Rifugio Torino, Cresta d'Arp, Les Fleurs, Passo dei Salati, Punta Indren, Weisseeferner, Grawand, Brunnenkogel.....

But that's not the question: there are Jungfrau area fans like Palen and there are others. Nobody is right or wrong, they have just different opinions that we have to respect.

I still can't make up my mind, lol. You guys make both areas sound amazing! I wish we had more time on this trip.

Both areas ARE amazing IMO, so you don't have a bad choice here -- just a difficult one. :-)

It sounds like your time in Switzerland will be very limited -- how much time, exactly?

And are you definitely going to be on the Bernini Express or will you take that route <u>only</u> if you go to the Engadine?

Hi again LA_FadeAway,

Why not spend some time at Google's "Images" search engine? Not perfect, but it will give you some idea of what each area looks like. Google for images for both areas ("Jungfrau" and "Engadin") and then google for images for specific towns ("Zuoz," "Pontresina," "Sils,""Wengen," "Grindelwald," etc).

But, again, you really can't make a wrong decision here!

s

Oh! Forgot to add --

You may want to hunt and peck around Ingo's excellent pages at Virtual Tourist for this area:

http://members.virtualtourist.com/m/4166c/a88f9/

http://members.virtualtourist.com/m/4166c/a8885/

s

Thanks swandav ;-)

<3

s

<3

s

ok. Weird. I'm not getting what I thought I'd get.

s

IME there is nothing new with seeing groups of travelers in BOTH regions. As to "herding" people or things the Swiss have been doing that number for centuries.

https://www.google.com/search?q=Weng...=1600&bih=1075

Wengen a favorite of many here and one without hoards of tour groups coming thru - simply buses and cars cannot come because access is only by train or track.