I didn't know he could smoke in public parks either. You may want to check on that- BUT the De Hoge Veluwe is huge.

Belgium beer is good, not as good as German beer but okay. :)

twiggers - that sounds like a good compromise [staying in Bruges/Brugge for the evening and getting a late train back].

being me, I would head for the penultimate train, just in case.

we loved Haarlem too. it would be a nice place to cycle to from A'dam.

Alessandra: Thank you for that info! Perhaps we'll head to Brugges later in the day and stay late.


Bilbo & Ann: You are both mentioning Haarlem....hmmmm, gives me something to think about. I'm just reading through my Netherlands guidebook right now trying to narrow down the cities I might want to do on day trips.

I want to make sure I am reading things right: There is a Benelux pass offered through Eurorail that is $209 (US) pp (saver pass for 2+ people). It is for 5 days use. Can this be used for the day trips from Amsterdam, as well as the trains to Brussels, Luxembourg, etc.?

I will, of course, price out individual tickets to make sure it is worth it!

twiggers - you could visit Haarlem for an afternoon or evening. that's what we did - it was a short drive from amsterdam, we had a wander round, then supper in a restaurant on the square, and a short drive home again. I assume that you could do the same thing by train.

Thanks for the tip Ann. My reading of the guidebooks gives me the sense that Haarlem isn't a place that you need a lot of time to see.

bilbo - It is definitely weird having a whole thread about Belgium and nothing about beer. But alas, tiggers and her husband do not drink alcohol.

Lol November....we definitely aren't taking advantage of the beer thing....so weird! We'll be eating chocolate though!!!!

Twiggers--I know you're going for the art, not the beer, so I just wanted to share a good Vermeer website so you can see "what's in town" when you are over there, so to speak:
http://www.essentialvermeer.com/verm..._part_one.html
I hate it when I visit a museum to see a specific painting and it's out on tour. And since there are so few Vermeers in existence anyway...

Have to tell you that we were rather surprised at the two Vermeer landscapes we saw, one at the Rijksmuseum (Amsterdam) and one at the Mauritshuis (den Hague). The one at the Mauritshuis was a view of Delft harbor, and although our time that day was limited, the painting persuaded us to hop the tram immediately to get over to Delft just check it out.

In general, our concentration while in Amsterdam/Belgium was on Northern European (aka "Low Country") paintings, and we were in particular search of Hubert and Jan van Eycks, Rogier van der Weyden, Hans Memling, Hieronymus Bosch, and so on. Of course, we were equally happy to view all the Rembrandts and Vermeers throughout the trip.

While we don't particularly like Rubens, we actually very much enjoyed the Rubenhuis in Antwerp, especially since we could see how his workshop produced van Dyck, Jan Bruegel, etc.

I want to make sure I am reading things right: There is a Benelux pass offered through Eurorail that is $209 (US) pp (saver pass for 2+ people). It is for 5 days use. Can this be used for the day trips from Amsterdam, as well as the trains to Brussels, Luxembourg, etc.?>

Yes, yes, yes - unlimited travel for one day - say you start in Bruges, stop over in Brussels for a while - go on to Luxembourg - one day on this 'flexipass'

or day trip from Amsterdam (like i did recently) first to Den Hague look around - a few hours is enough here and everything is a short enough walk from the train station - and then take a train to Delft for the rest of the day and then return to Amsterdam - one day on the pass.

As the Euro is declining expect the pass price in dollars to decline soon as well - readjustments to pass prices are made several times a year as exchange rates change - so keep checking and if point to point is within ballpark of pass then go for the pass - as you need not wait in oft long lines to buy tickets in Dutch station (can't use the automatic ticketing machines with most American credit cars so you must go to manual ticket windows and even pay more for the ticket than if you could use the machines.)

OK, so here are the things I *think* I want to see in the Netherlands. I am leaning towards 1 travel day (arrival around noon-ish), 3 full days, 1 travel day (leave early in the AM to Brussels). Arrival would be on a Thursday and departure on a Monday morning. So I need to keep in mind that things may be closed on Sundays (possibly museums or smaller towns?).

Amsterdam:

Anne Frank House
Canal tour
Van Gogh museum
Rijksmuseum
Coffee shops (for hubby)
Rent a bicycle to do a canal bike tour (instead of a walking tour)
Red light district visit
Vondelpark
Explore Jordaan (probably via bicycle)

Arnhem:
Visit to Kroller-Mueller (this is a must because of Van Gogh collection)

Haarlem:
A place to explore and see very old buildings.
Gothic cathedral would be a must (I'm assuming it would be open every day)!

The Hague:
Mauritshuis (not open on Mondays)
Binnenhof (closed on Sunday)
Gevangenpoort
Grote kerk & old town hall

Delft:
a couple churches & just generally strolling around town

Here are my thoughts....input GREATLY appreciated:

Thursday: Arrive around noon. Likely will be 2-3 PM by the time clear customs, take train to town, and check into room. Find hubby a coffee shop and then take a canal tour. Dinner and then stroll around. Likely in bed by 8-9 PM due to jet lag.

Friday: Breakfast (we are VERY early risers). Head over to Van Gogh & Rikjsmuseum. This will likely soak up most of the day. Back to city centre. Wander and explore (possibly renting bike). Over to red light district after dark.

Saturday: Anne Frank house first thing in the AM. Travel to Den Hague. From there to Delft. Back to Amsterdam.

Sunday: Travel to Kroller-Mueller (leave early to arrive by 10 AM opening). Return to Amsterdam. Relax in the city, stroll around. Possibly rent bike?

Monday: Depart AM to Brussels. Possibly leave a little later to squeeze in Haarlem?

I'm thinking that Den Hague & Kroller Mueller are the two "must-see" day trips. Delft sounds like it is a very quaint town....probably more so than Haarlem.

I"m also on the fence about how much of a "must see" the Rijksmuseum actually is? I need to research a little more.

After looking through everything it really seems like an additional day would be nice. Just a veg day. Not sure that it will be doable with the rent of my itinerary.

So this would tentatively have the rest of the itinerary as:

Monday: Arrive Brussels. Explore sights.
Tuesday: Day trip to Brugge (returning in evening)
Wednesday: Day trip to Antwerp?
Thursday: Travel to Luxembourg early AM; lounge around Luxembourg city
Friday: Luxembourg - Vianden? Trier?
Saturday: Return to US from Brussels - might need to take a late train to Brussels depending on flight time.

Once I start researching the Belgium portion of the trip, I can decide whether to keep Luxembourg in the itinerary (I'm thinking that Antwerp might get the axe to free up a day).

"I'm thinking that Den Hague & Kroller Mueller are the two "must-see" day trips."

You're an unusual person twiggers. I like that you're going to take a chance- not a lot of tourists go there but I don't think you'll be disappointed. My husband and I weren't, we still talk about it and we went last Oct.

Why unusual LSky? Is it that Kroller-Mueller isn't a normal "must see"? But I am absolutely a hard core Van Gogh fan. I was just in Philly and went to their art museum and they had 3 Van Goghs....when I saw the paintings this sense of awe and calm just came over me. Hard to describe, but I love the feeling.

What day-trips are the norm for the Netherlands?

Well just to also say like LSky that i loved Kroller-Muller - including the bus ride thru the old dunes national park to get there. (You can also ride free bicycles from where the main bus lets you off thru the park on bike paths to the museum.)

Take a train to Ede-Wengingen (sp?) and hop on buses out front the station - you change once or at least i did at the park gates to another bus that takes you to the museum, which also includes a sweet outdoor statue park in a sylvain setting.

One thing i found out however is that the National Museum Card is not valid here - and for your plans getting the National Museum Card is a must - costs about 40 euros and that is about the admission to three major museums and hundreds of others are covered all over Holland - card is good for one year.

Not many people will travel far for art, twiggers. It's just as well. I think I'm the only one who has written anything about it on Fodor's, but we will travel far for art. (even spent a long morning in Knokke-Heist Belgium to see a murals by Magritte and Keith Haring.

Even as someone who will NOT travel much just for art i was really taken by Kroller-Muller - not so much the usual art museum stuff inside but the wondrous alfresco statue park out back - with trails winding into and out of woods, etc.

What day-trips are the norm for the Netherlands?>

having visited Amsterdam and Holland annually since 1969 and taken every popular day trip many times here goes:

Delft
Haarlem
Alkmaar on Friday for the morning cheese market
Marken & Volendam
The Flower Fields between Haarlem and Leiden in season - Keukenhof Flower Show each spring

Zaanse Schanse (sp?)
The Hague

that's the most 'norm' IMO

Thanks guys! Shoot, I figured that art was one of the major reasons to visit Europe? For me it's the art and the architecture...and the history (kind of encompassed in the two).

So, if I had to give up one of those cities....which would it be? Delft? Haarlem?

I know Haarlem is so close...and Delft makes sense to combine with Den Hague.

Arg!

"Shoot, I figured that art was one of the major reasons to visit Europe?"

Only if you like art ;) I don't think we looked at one painting on our last trip. Ok - that's not entirely true, there were some in a couple churches we went into.

True, true November. My husband has been in one museum in his life, and it was only because I dragged him!