Belgium & Paris April 2018
 

Dear All,

Finally our trip has been firmed up. We are a family of four with two teenagers.

We will fly into Brussels and proceed directly to Bruges. Need advise on where to get the train tickets and how to proceed towards the train station.
Just want the clarity as we would have a long journey and luggage with us. We would be taking the direct train without any changes.

We will be staying in Bruges for four nights. Any recommendations on where to eat / drink / shop / sight see. We like local hearty and meaty portions.
Planning on a day trip to Ghent. Any sightseeing recommendations in Bruges and Ghent?

Then we will take a train to Brussels. Do I need to buy this ticket in advance?

We will spend four nights in Brussels. Recommendations on sight seeing / eat / drink are welcome.
Any day trip recommendation from Brussels. We are not into museums unless something really worthwhile.

After Brussels, we take the Thalys to Paris. Need instructions regarding Midi Station as I understand it is very big train station. How to reach the platform as we will be having luggage.

We have been to Paris before, so this time we want to explore the local areas. We would be visiting Saint Chapelle, Paris Opera and Musee D'Orsay. Is there a tour for the Paris Opera? Are there timings to visit Saint Chapelle? All your valuable inputs are welcome.

We would like to try frog legs. Any reasonably priced local restaurant? We will be staying in the Latin Quarter so please advise us the hotel recommendations. We love to visit the local markets that sell grilled chicken and meats etc. Any markets please advise.

Thank you all for your recommendations that have helped us to finalize our trip.

Kind regards,
SKPKCP11

Buy all your Belgian train tickets as you go along - flat fare and no seat reservations possible - no reason to pre-book - buy the Zaventem Airport-Bruges ticket at airport rail desk - yes be sure to get the hourly direct airport to Bruges trains that leave the airport at most hours at :03- 3 minutes after each hour. Takes 1:30 total travel time. No problem with luggage and boarding airport trains. www.bahn.de/en is a great site to get schedules quickly.

Bruges to Gent same - buy at station at return ticket. As these tickets are valid for any train that day I believe you probably have to date-stamp cancel them yourselves before boarding the train by sticking them in a cancelling machine - board without doing that may result in a fine for not having a valid ticket (conductors may not always come on trains so that is why you need to pre-cancel. Ask when buying ticket about this in case that has changed - train staff all speak some English.

Thalys train to Paris. www.thalys.com- imperative to book very early to snare deep discounted Brussels to Paris tickets - like from 29 euros instead of full fare of about 80 euros or so - but those cheaper tickets are limited in number so book ASAP- probably 90-120 days in advance. www.seat61.com has didactic info on booking your own Thalys tickets online (these train-specific tickets need not be pre-cancelled by you as they can only be used on that specific train. Good sources on trains in general - BETS-European Rail Experts and www.ricksteves.com.

Why 4 days in Brussels a city that non-pluses many but does have some neat sights. I'd maybe recommend going Bruges to Antwerp and spending two days there in that fascinating city and then 2 in Brussels- or day tripping from Brussels to Antwerp. Waterloo is just a short train ride from Brussels to - see the batlefield and memorial, etc.

For train travel within Belgium see: https://www.seat61.com/international...russels-Bruges

For Brussels to Paris see: https://www.seat61.com/international...Brussels-Paris

For Brussels Midi station see: https://www.seat61.com/stations/brussels-midi.htm

How much luggage are we talking about? You will be much happier if you travel light - I travel for weeks/months at a time with a 22in wheeled case and a day pack. You do not want to tackle train travel with a large suitcase.

I agree that four nights in Brussels seems excessive. Come to that, so does four nights in Bruges. Unless you are doing a lot of day trips.

Four nights in Bruges is too much, IMO, as is 4 nights in Brussels. There are loads of other interesting venues in Belgium and the Netherlands that are easy and inexpensive to get to.

If you haven't availed yourselves of guidebooks, at least take a look at the official websites for Bruges and Ghent to figure out how to get around and what you want to see, where you want to eat, and so forth.

Google for a map of Midi Station.

"We have been to Paris before, so this time we want to explore the local areas." What local areas? The places you have listed are all classic tourist sites. Yes, there are tours of the Paris Opéra.Its website will no doubt give you details. You can also just buy a ticket and roam all over it. Sainte-Chapelle also has a website will all the details.
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Hardly anyone eats frogs' legs in Paris anymore except in Chinese restaurants, IME, so go to Belleville or Chinatown if you want them, or google.

Google can also give you a list of all the markets in Paris - days, times, goods, etc.

For hotels, try www.booking.com. You can filter or price, location, amenities, etc.

Bruxelles-Midi is as easy as any other major train station in Europe. The main concourse is on the lower level, and there are escalators to go up to the platforms. The platform for your train will be posted in due time.

Yes I never had a problem quickly locating my train at Brussels-Midi - the platforms are clearly labelled down below them and many have escalators if I recall correctly.

A simple search will show you opera-house touring opportunities in Paris: https://www.operadeparis.fr/en
It is important to differentiate between the modernist (which is to say hulking) Bastille Opera and the traditional and far more ornate Opera Garnier, resplendent since a massive restoration a half-dozen years ago. The backstage tour at Bastille reveals a massive industrial operation with five rolling stages and all sorts of theatrical hocus-pocus. Tours, when on offer, are in French, which as an enthusiast wouldn't stop me although it sure slowed me down. The official site does not offer backstage at Garnier but there is an audio tour for rent. If possible, the decorations and artwork rival what's on stage (and were intended to do so right from the start, when the rich went to the show to show themselves off.) Some opera is also presented at Theatre du Chatelet but it is currently undergoing a big redo.
I have seen tour companies offering access to Opera Garnier but cannot say what they include

At the airport follow the clear signs to the train station. At Midi just follow the signs for Thalys. Very easy to navigate.

Agree with StCirq that 4 nights in Brugge is very long; it's a tiny town. But if you've booked it; spend a day in Gent, and maybe do a tour to Ieper and the Flanders Field museum.
If the weather is good, take a train to the coast and go cycling. Or cycle to Damme from Brugge. For your 4 nights in Brussel, consider a daytrip to Antwerpen.
There's some cool shopping for the teenagers if they are interested in that. If you like markets, there's a good one in Antwerpen on Saturdays.

You can buy train tickets at the station - but I like to get them online in advance and print them or keep them on my phone.
The price is the same, but you then don't have to worry about queues or dealing with machines at the station.
Local train tickets are valid for the day, you don't need to book a specific train. www.belgianrail.be is in English.

As Tulips wrote:
Get the tickets in advance (at home/ print-out) and hit the ground running.
There are often lines at the staffed ticket desks - and you may not want to deal with self-service kiosks after a long flight.

Brussels Airport train station is located under the airport, on the lowest level.
When you walk out of baggage claim, keep right and head for the escalators/elevators and go down.
You can't really miss the signs.

If you just missed a direct train to Brugge, you find cafes and eateries on Arrivals level after you walked out of baggage claim.

Bruges is wonderful in the early morning and evenings when the hordes of day trippers are gone. I had read about these hordes before we arrived there and was still shocked at how many people were crammed into the center of Bruges. So spend the days making day trips to Ghent, Antwerp, rent bikes and cycle out to Damme and toward the coast (great bike path along a canal and flat land). From Brussels, you can check out Leuven, Mechelen, Maastricht if you feel you want to experience more than Brussels. We rented a car in Belgium since I wanted to check out some small hamlets where my ancestors lived. It was easy to drive around the country and gave us flexibility on where to go during the day. Price per day was probably similar to train tickets for 4 too. So you can consider that at least for your time in Bruges.

My teens enjoyed climbing the bell tower and the canal tour in Bruges, the castle of the counts in Ghent and the train station and pedestrian shopping street in Antwerp. Plus just walking around the medieval market squares. They also ate their weight in waffles. My husband and I drank our weight in that wonderful Belgian beer.

For most however trains will go to anywhere they want - cities that are not great with cars.

We didn't have any issues driving into Ghent or Antwerp. I researched garages to park beforehand--Ghent under a Mall on the southern side of the city; Antwerp near the train station--and we drove right to them, parked, and walked around. In the case of Ghent, we were much closer to the city center than the train station would have gotten us. Cost was just a few euros. Again, offered a lot of flexibility in where and when we wanted to go and we got to see other parts of Belgium than train travel would have allowed us.
If you are paying for 4 RTs, costs add up with the train. So just suggesting an alternative to public transportation.

Yes families especially yes may prefer a car. And yes smaller big cities not so bad to drive in. For single or double travelers trains probably cheaper but family of 4 perhaps not.
Thalys tickets as cheap as 29 euros Brussels to Paris and since it costs a lot more often to rent car in one country and return in another ditch the car in Brussels and blast at nearly 200 mph to Paris.

If driving between Gent and Antwerp check out St-Niklaas with one of the largest town squares in Europe:

https://www.google.com/search?q=st+n...w=1708&bih=838

Yes easier to stop off at such places with cars.

One night in Bruges is more than enough, as long as you have a full day to visit the city. If you want more of the area, move along to Ghent, Antwerp or Ypres for another night or two. And I will always recommend nearby Lille as well (although the Flemish call it Rijsel). There are trains from Bruges to Lille, and the train from Lille to Paris only takes 62 minutes.

Opera Garnier has online booking for tours and in English - excellent . You need photo ID which they keep whilst you tour . The Chagall ceiling is worth seeing.
Belgium is very easy to get around without a car .
I enjoyed Bruges and easily spent 3 days there. Lille as Kerouac says is a good idea - we spent 3 days there.

When was this, lolfn? The center of Antwerp is a big building site at the moment, traffic is terrible. There have been changes in Gent traffic in the past year as well.
During school holidays there's generally less traffic - first two weeks in April.
I wouldn't advise driving from Brussel Airport to Brugge after a long flight, and negotiating the Brussel Ring, unless it's on a Sunday.

Per Antwerp resident Tulips best to drive in Belgium if doing cities or face nightmarish driving in those cities?

If you're going from city center to city center; take the train. Traffic can be terrible, especially in rush hour, and in Antwerp they are working on several main roads at the same time.
Belgium also has some of the worst traffic casualty statistics in Europe.
The car park at Central Station in Antwerp costs 22 euro a day.

Belgium was said to have and may still have Europe's densest train system with trains flying off everywhere twice or more an hour usually. And IMO of doing bike trips for a decade from Zeebrugge-Bruges-Gent-Antwerp there is really little of interest scenic or other wise between Bruges-Gent and Antwerp. Take the train unless camping, etc.

Frog legs on the menu today at my local cafe. I tried to upload a photo of l'ardoise for you but it didn't work.

Le Cafe de la Butte, 71 rue de Caulaincourt, 18eme

Hi All,

Thank you so much for all your replies. Have been very tied up for the last couple of months.

Lolfn& Tulips - please can you tell what the pedestrian shopping street for teenagers in Antwerp is called.

I had planned for a day trip to Ghent from Bruges and a day trip to Antwerp from Brussels. Hope the teenagers do not get bored.
But, I think the chocolates and other stuff will keep them interested for sometime.

I believe the Ghent train station is half-hour away from the centre. We will take a bus from the station to get to the city centre.

Need your advise - we need to get a local SIM card while in Belgium. Can I buy this at Brussels airport when we land. Is it available? Can I use this card for our stay in Paris too or do I need to get a separate card for Paris? Basically I need the SIM card to access Google Maps whilst we are on the road. What is the approximate cost for a pre-paid card?

Just one more info - I know it sound dumb but I have always mixed up the seat location after I enter the correct wagon. Instead of moving into the right side, in hurry I go on the left side or vice-versa. The ticket nos keep repeating in each wagon. After I enter the train, where is the wagon no. indicated inside the train? I have looked up different sites but not yet got the clarity. Also for standing on the platform, where are the wagon numbers for each train indicated?
Any practical info will help please.

Thanks all once again for all the advise.

SKPKCP11

The best thing about SIM cards in the EU (and I'm certain you can buy what you need at the airport) is that all roaming fees were eliminated in the EU last year. So if you buy a Belgian SIM, it will be equally valid anywhere in France.

The wagon number on trains is generally displayed on the outside. There is also (almost always) an electronic diagram on various platform boards showing how the train cars are organized. This can be important because sometimes trains are "assembled" in different stations. So the board can show you wagon numbers such as 1-2-3-4-5-6-12-11-10-9-8-7. So definitely pay attention. No need to panic -- I have never boarded a train without numerous attendants present to answer questions.

The main shopping street is the Meir - chain stores such as Zara, H&M.
More interesting shopping for teens would be in Kammenstraat - check out Fish & Chips. It's opposite the lovely Dries van Noten shop.
Steenhouwersvest and Nationale Straat are nice too.

It's true that roaming charges have been eliminated, so you can use your Belgian card in France. Just be aware that there is a limit on data - depending on what card you buy.
If you have used up that data, you will be charged extra - or I suppose if you have a pay-and-go card, it will just stop working.
You will have to provide ID in order to buy a SIM card in Belgium.

In France also, ID is required to buy a phone. "Burner" phones are illegal for security reasons.

Such as.....

It would be more useful if you list the "loads of other interesting venues in Belgium"

@ MaryAlex: Why would you ask someone to list all the interesting venues in Belgium, when that is precisely what a good guidebook does? From what I can tell, you are planning a very expensive trip, but aren't willing to invest even a small amount in a decent guidebook or two, which really makes no sense. "Penny wise, pound foolish" IMO.

<<It would be more useful if you list the "loads of other interesting venues in Belgium>>


I only get to that level of "usefulness" for a fee, MaryAlex.

I don't understand why people come online to forums, when they post nothing but vague arrogant responses. May as well, not post at all.

And I don't understand why people come online, ready to spend a small fortune on a trip overseas, without having done at least a modicum of research. May as well not even ask for help.

Hah, inaccurate but it is hilarious that you are defending your useless advice. Not used to being called out on it.
Just write, refer to a guidebook or buy one. No point of posting, your comments are useless.I doubt you have even travelled to Belgium. You certainty do not write as if you have.

Oh, :there are lots of lovely places all around the world".. ridiculous.

I recently took a trip that included a few days in Utrecht and found once I was there that the aspects of Utrecht I enjoyed the most were not the ones guidebooks or internet bloggers or most message forum posters recommended most highly. That has been my experience traveling to other places as well. I do a lot of research, and so I generally have a very good idea of what the "Top Ten" sights are at a destination, and I have gotten used to finding out that I often end up liking lesser known places much better (and not just because the "Top Ten" have lots of other tourists).

Right now I'm planning a trip to Budapest, and already I am certain I will not go to any baths, and I doubt I will spend much time (or any) in "ruin" cafes. I guess I'll never know whether I would have liked Temple Bar in Dublin, but nothing about it appealed to me, but I am very glad I went to the Chester Beatty Library.

I did get some excellent advice about Utrecht on this very forum from many posters, who helped me with specific questions but also some rather vague questions on my part. Fortunately, the bullies with no imagination to begin with didn't take any interest in that thread, so I was spared having to tell them go find something else to do with their lives.

Since MaryAlex is NOT the OP, perhaps she hasn't bothered to read the whole thread. There is plenty of useful and even specific advice up-thread.

kitbag - I'm with you on the ruin pubs (didn't even exist the first time I went to Budapest) but reconsider the baths. They are a great way to unwind after a lot of sightseeing, besides being sights themselves. Choose between outdoor and indoor. Of course, you do need to pack a swimsuit, Hungary isn't Japan.

We are staying in Brugge in June 3 nights Got a place on airbnb

three nights in Bruges are great IF you are day tripping out at least one of those days- like to nearby Gent.