Be aware of new credit cards required in Amsterdam!
May 26th, 2012, 03:23 AM
#21
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Please remember that this is not being done to inconvenience US travelers.
It is being done to hit one of the biggest cash sources for those who also practise drug smuggling, people trafficking, extortion, prostitution etc.
Someone please post telling us none of these are really a problem in the US.
This is not just a problem for the banks and the merchants.
It is being done to hit one of the biggest cash sources for those who also practise drug smuggling, people trafficking, extortion, prostitution etc.
Someone please post telling us none of these are really a problem in the US.
This is not just a problem for the banks and the merchants.
May 26th, 2012, 03:49 AM
#22
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xyz123 - Sure, more and more people report problems. But they report the same problems. For the most part, we have complaints about the Dutch train system and vague references to unmanned gas stations. Of course more people will mention the Dutch train thing over time, but that isn't indicative of the problem becoming more acute or more widespread. You would expect to see that simply because more time has passed. Moreover, the reality is that the Dutch trains have actually become more welcoming to non-Dutch cards, not less. The issue is 99% about the Dutch train system being about 30 years behind, not that the US cards are about 6 months behind anything resembling a pan-European standard and network.
As for American arrogance... Because the US didn't bother to switch to metric? You can't possibly be serious. This could easily be cast as an example of American practicality. Undertaking the cost and hassle of upending a well-known, perfectly functional system of measure simply so that a handful of Americans can know that 12 C isn't very warm? Absurd. Metric is no more precise or standardized than the existing US measures. It offers some marginal benefit from decimaliztion, but beyond that? It would be like investing money to introduce chip and pin to fight losses of 0.07%. Oh wait...
There are all manner of initiatives that come out of "Europe". Many are stupid. Even more are a waste of money. Still more offer limited benefit to the US market. I simply can't understand why you think the US need adopt everything "Europe" does or be immediately deemed arrogant. Quick quiz: name one thing that the US has adopted that you would claim is not common in "Europe" due to "European" arrogance.
As for American arrogance... Because the US didn't bother to switch to metric? You can't possibly be serious. This could easily be cast as an example of American practicality. Undertaking the cost and hassle of upending a well-known, perfectly functional system of measure simply so that a handful of Americans can know that 12 C isn't very warm? Absurd. Metric is no more precise or standardized than the existing US measures. It offers some marginal benefit from decimaliztion, but beyond that? It would be like investing money to introduce chip and pin to fight losses of 0.07%. Oh wait...
There are all manner of initiatives that come out of "Europe". Many are stupid. Even more are a waste of money. Still more offer limited benefit to the US market. I simply can't understand why you think the US need adopt everything "Europe" does or be immediately deemed arrogant. Quick quiz: name one thing that the US has adopted that you would claim is not common in "Europe" due to "European" arrogance.
May 26th, 2012, 05:17 AM
#23
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travelgourmet...the metric system is not Europe...it's universal throughout the rest of the civilized and non civilized world. I also understand why the UA uses different frequencies for its gsm 2g cell services. Again, we can agree to disagree with respect. Being a former math teacher, I see the value of the metric system (you know decimalizing things really began in the USA with the advent of the dollar so it's not a European thing. Better systems of things will always bge coming out and nothing precludes the USA banks, who are basically the only ones not pushing hard for chip credit cards, and I know you have a few different cards, on the grouns that fraud is not a big problem in the USA (that's the argument of the banks as you note)...I could go on and on. For example no other country in the world fingerprints and takes mug shots of visitors to the country. Remember land of the free and home of the brave. I know lots of very levelheaded people who resent that. Yes 9/11 happened but these measures would not have kept any of the hijackers out of the cdountry. Requiring passports to cross into Canada, a very close ally and remember the bragging about the longest undefended border crossing in the world and then stopping a Canadian fire engine from helping out a NY State fire department during a serious fire to check passports. That's, at least to me, arrogance also.
Yes I know it would cost a lot of money to replaces all the pos terminals and it would cost a lot of money to change the highway signs to kilometers but it need not be done all at once.
These are not "European" thngs. These are universal things. Like it or not, we're all part of the same world community. There are things we cal learn from others, just like others learn from us. You just get the feeling, sometimes, it's our way or the highway.
JMHO
Yes I know it would cost a lot of money to replaces all the pos terminals and it would cost a lot of money to change the highway signs to kilometers but it need not be done all at once.
These are not "European" thngs. These are universal things. Like it or not, we're all part of the same world community. There are things we cal learn from others, just like others learn from us. You just get the feeling, sometimes, it's our way or the highway.
JMHO
May 26th, 2012, 05:24 AM
#24
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BTW, why is it important for kids in America to know there are 3 feet in a yard, 5,280 feet in a mile, is it 16 ounces to a gallon? And then make our American kids answer math teast questions like how many feet are there is 3.2 miles?
Ask a kid from the rest of the world how many meters is 3.2 kilometers and they know immediately 3200 meters.
And it's more than just costs sometimes. Study after study has come out suggesting the US Treasury is losing millins by continuing to print $1 bills and that, as again just about every other country in the world, has replaced the 1 unit banknote by a coin. Some will argue well we've tried that and people haven't accepted the $1 coin. Try making the $1 nice and thick, like a British pound coin, tell the public that as of a certain date the $1 bill will not be negotiable and there will be grumbling and it will be done. And the nexdt time, I have to use a soda machine to buy a bottle of soda pop for $2, I could just reaci in my pocket and pull out 2 $1 coins (although thankfully more and more vending machines take credit cards). Practicality has to rule sometimes too.
But again, we'll just have to agree to disagree on this without any rancor.
Ask a kid from the rest of the world how many meters is 3.2 kilometers and they know immediately 3200 meters.
And it's more than just costs sometimes. Study after study has come out suggesting the US Treasury is losing millins by continuing to print $1 bills and that, as again just about every other country in the world, has replaced the 1 unit banknote by a coin. Some will argue well we've tried that and people haven't accepted the $1 coin. Try making the $1 nice and thick, like a British pound coin, tell the public that as of a certain date the $1 bill will not be negotiable and there will be grumbling and it will be done. And the nexdt time, I have to use a soda machine to buy a bottle of soda pop for $2, I could just reaci in my pocket and pull out 2 $1 coins (although thankfully more and more vending machines take credit cards). Practicality has to rule sometimes too.
But again, we'll just have to agree to disagree on this without any rancor.
May 26th, 2012, 05:38 AM
#25
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Actually, Japan fingerprints visitors. Korea is set to soon, if they don't today. China is planning to as well. Thailand photographs. The UK makes visa holders submit fingerprints. And everywhere, there is movement toward coupling biometric passports with facial recognition. Twenty-first century fingerprinting, if you will. No offense, but I think you are spreading misinformation on this point.
As a math teacher, I presume you have done a cost-benefit analysis of not metricating? Would make a great class project actually. Surely your answer isn't simply "everyone else is doing it", even if it seems that way?
I'm still eager to hear your thoughts on what the rest of the world could learn from the US or where other countries' standards and practices should adjust to meet others in the middle. My disagreement isn't with chip and PIN vs not. It is with what seems a quite reflexive tendency to blame US arrogance for differences better explained by cost and lack of tangible and significant problems currently being experienced.
As a math teacher, I presume you have done a cost-benefit analysis of not metricating? Would make a great class project actually. Surely your answer isn't simply "everyone else is doing it", even if it seems that way?
I'm still eager to hear your thoughts on what the rest of the world could learn from the US or where other countries' standards and practices should adjust to meet others in the middle. My disagreement isn't with chip and PIN vs not. It is with what seems a quite reflexive tendency to blame US arrogance for differences better explained by cost and lack of tangible and significant problems currently being experienced.
May 26th, 2012, 05:50 AM
#26
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You do realize that your choice of the dollar as the base unit is quite arbitrary? For example, the HKD 10 note, ZAR 10 note, and SGD 10 note are worth between USD 1 and USD 2. Where is the cutoff in your mind. Shouldn't Singapore drop the SGD 2 note?
May 26th, 2012, 06:22 AM
#27
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....of course tg, I agree with you...if it were up to me, I would re-issue the currency and call it the new dollar, 10 old dollars (note the decimalization) would equal one new dollar. If we did that, prices would be what they're supposed to be.
I mean you could go to a baseball game for % new dollars, you culd have a steak dinner for $4.80, a gall of gas would be 39¢ a gallon......oh well, one can dream.
I mean you could go to a baseball game for % new dollars, you culd have a steak dinner for $4.80, a gall of gas would be 39¢ a gallon......oh well, one can dream.
May 28th, 2012, 05:19 PM
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Ok so I tried to read through all the back and forth in this forum, but I don't think I saw the answer to my particular question. Are there atm's at any of the train stations where I can use my debit card(no chip and pin) to get euros? I'll be leaving London, changing trains in Brussels before arriving in Amsterdam.
May 28th, 2012, 05:34 PM
#32
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Melanie, the chip and pin issue is for <u>credit cards</u>. You should have no trouble getting cash from ATM using your debit card. I don't know for sure, but I would bet that all [major] train stations will have ATM's.
May 29th, 2012, 12:26 AM
#33
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@Travelgourmet: 0.07% is not a huge loss to a bank, but the losses of not supporting an antiquated payment system may be much smaller. As has been stated, the process to transfer doesn't have to cost a lot (and certainly less than those 0.07%) when done gradually as it has been done in Europe for over the last 8 years. Credit card machines *do* wear out and need to be replaced on a regular basis anyway. The introduction of EMV has cut POS based CC fraud by 80%.
As for the metric vs imperial system: you are aware that most high-tech companies in the USA are using the metric system, right? NASA, General Motors, Boeing, just to name a view - they exclusively use the metric system. Why would they do that if there was no obvious advantage in it?
But hey, by all means, keep measuring your distances in inches, feet and miles, buy your gasoline in gallons, express temperature in degrees Fahrenheits and use a swiped credit card (or even better, try to pay using one of those charga-plate machines). Just don't expect the rest of the world to keep using those antiquated units of measurement. Isn't experiencing differences one of the best things of travel?
As for the metric vs imperial system: you are aware that most high-tech companies in the USA are using the metric system, right? NASA, General Motors, Boeing, just to name a view - they exclusively use the metric system. Why would they do that if there was no obvious advantage in it?
But hey, by all means, keep measuring your distances in inches, feet and miles, buy your gasoline in gallons, express temperature in degrees Fahrenheits and use a swiped credit card (or even better, try to pay using one of those charga-plate machines). Just don't expect the rest of the world to keep using those antiquated units of measurement. Isn't experiencing differences one of the best things of travel?
May 29th, 2012, 01:20 AM
#34
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<i>Credit card machines *do* wear out and need to be replaced on a regular basis anyway.</i>
And, in the US, they are increasingly being replaced with terminals that work with contactless technologies. Increasingly, we can level the accusation at "Europe" that they are "arrogantly" using an outdated technology. The future may not even be in cards, so why invest in an evolutionary change with such limited payback?
<i>As for the metric vs imperial system: you are aware that most high-tech companies in the USA are using the metric system, right? NASA, General Motors, Boeing, just to name a view - they exclusively use the metric system.</i>
I work for a high-tech company, so yes, I am fully aware of where we use metric.
<i>Why would they do that if there was no obvious advantage in it?</i>
Except that advantage is commonality across locations. That may matter to cross-border companies, but matters less to the average person.
Where is the advantage to the general population? There is no increase to my utility by purchasing 0.45359237 kg of ground beef, rather than one pound. Indeed, to the extent 1 pound has a more immediate association in my mind, switching would result in a loss of utility for me. Perhaps there would be a moderate increase in utility in not having to learn two systems (both were certainly taught when I was in school), but I'm unconvinced that this outweighs the lost utility associated with forcing people to switch from a standard that they are instinctively comfortable with. Seems like a high cost so that the occasional traveler knows that 12 C = 53.6 F.
There is a reason why the UK kept the pint...
<i>Just don't expect the rest of the world to keep using those antiquated units of measurement. </i>
I don't expect the rest of the world to use American measures. I simply don't agree with xyz's contention that the continued use of them in the US is resulted from arrogance.
And, in the US, they are increasingly being replaced with terminals that work with contactless technologies. Increasingly, we can level the accusation at "Europe" that they are "arrogantly" using an outdated technology. The future may not even be in cards, so why invest in an evolutionary change with such limited payback?
<i>As for the metric vs imperial system: you are aware that most high-tech companies in the USA are using the metric system, right? NASA, General Motors, Boeing, just to name a view - they exclusively use the metric system.</i>
I work for a high-tech company, so yes, I am fully aware of where we use metric.
<i>Why would they do that if there was no obvious advantage in it?</i>
Except that advantage is commonality across locations. That may matter to cross-border companies, but matters less to the average person.
Where is the advantage to the general population? There is no increase to my utility by purchasing 0.45359237 kg of ground beef, rather than one pound. Indeed, to the extent 1 pound has a more immediate association in my mind, switching would result in a loss of utility for me. Perhaps there would be a moderate increase in utility in not having to learn two systems (both were certainly taught when I was in school), but I'm unconvinced that this outweighs the lost utility associated with forcing people to switch from a standard that they are instinctively comfortable with. Seems like a high cost so that the occasional traveler knows that 12 C = 53.6 F.
There is a reason why the UK kept the pint...
<i>Just don't expect the rest of the world to keep using those antiquated units of measurement. </i>
I don't expect the rest of the world to use American measures. I simply don't agree with xyz's contention that the continued use of them in the US is resulted from arrogance.
May 29th, 2012, 03:53 AM
#35
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...I always tell people the good lord is a fan of metrification as normal human body temperature is a nice even number (38 degrees Celsius, none of this 98.6 business) <g>
And of course it can be done and has been done close to home. Canada is almost fully metrificized, chip and pin is the norm for Can adian credit cards now (and BTW some people do report difficulties in using the antiquated US crfedit cads at placers like McDonald's where it is claimed that only chip and pin cards are acceptable in many Mickey D's).
There comes a time when a good general knows when to retreat. Many of these things we have been discussing have had their time come and have already happened in Canada.
And the vast vast majority of fraud on the merchant level today does occur in the United States even with credit cards issued outside of the USA and I was just talking with a friend who was telling me his redit card had been cloned and used several times thousands of miles away overseas. While there has been some cloning of chip and pn cards by some of these vermin who run these credit card number theft rings, it is minimum. For that reason alone, chip and pin would be a good idea (while waiting for the wonderful new technologies we've been promised for years!)
And of course it can be done and has been done close to home. Canada is almost fully metrificized, chip and pin is the norm for Can adian credit cards now (and BTW some people do report difficulties in using the antiquated US crfedit cads at placers like McDonald's where it is claimed that only chip and pin cards are acceptable in many Mickey D's).
There comes a time when a good general knows when to retreat. Many of these things we have been discussing have had their time come and have already happened in Canada.
And the vast vast majority of fraud on the merchant level today does occur in the United States even with credit cards issued outside of the USA and I was just talking with a friend who was telling me his redit card had been cloned and used several times thousands of miles away overseas. While there has been some cloning of chip and pn cards by some of these vermin who run these credit card number theft rings, it is minimum. For that reason alone, chip and pin would be a good idea (while waiting for the wonderful new technologies we've been promised for years!)
May 29th, 2012, 04:26 AM
#36
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We had a few issues in BC Canada with their unfamiliar use of our Australian chipped cards with a PIN. Their machines had to use the magnetic strip of our card ignoring the chip and PIN! and they think they're a progressive society!
May 29th, 2012, 04:40 AM
#37
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We read about this a couple years ago. Haven't had a problem in our travels ( France, Italy, Prague) but have switched from BOA to a credit union to solve any problem in the future. We also get interest on our checking and savings accounts.
May 30th, 2012, 03:38 PM
#38
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I have a Us bank Visa card, not platinum but it does have a small fee. I think it is $50. I called them and asked for a card with a chip for my last trip to Europe and they sent it out at no cost to me. Last time I used it in the US, the clerk asked if I was Canadian because the card had a chip logo.
May 31st, 2012, 08:35 AM
#39
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>>>We had a few issues in BC Canada with their unfamiliar use of our Australian chipped cards with a PIN. Their machines had to use the magnetic strip of our card ignoring the chip and PIN! and they think they're a progressive society!<<<
Don't blame Canada... I have read reports of problems in Europe with Australian chip and pin cards too so the problem may actually be with your cards. Maybe you tried it upside down? ;^)
Don't blame Canada... I have read reports of problems in Europe with Australian chip and pin cards too so the problem may actually be with your cards. Maybe you tried it upside down? ;^)
