Bavaria-Innsbruck-Salzburg-Budapest-Vienna Road Trip Itinerary
Oct 31st, 2016, 06:07 PM
#21
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Thank you, nytraveler.
We've already revised our itinerary. We have canceled Hungary and decided to take it easy in the Bavarian area.
The Michelin website is very helpful. We will use it.
We've already revised our itinerary. We have canceled Hungary and decided to take it easy in the Bavarian area.
The Michelin website is very helpful. We will use it.
Oct 31st, 2016, 08:25 PM
#22
>>We have canceled Hungary and decided to take it easy in the Bavarian area. <<
OK - If you want a road trip . . . Take one. Just NOT at that time of year.
You just can't assume there will be decent weather
OK - If you want a road trip . . . Take one. Just NOT at that time of year.
You just can't assume there will be decent weather
Oct 31st, 2016, 10:58 PM
#24
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September and October are usually lovely. December is cold and crisp, but clear and nice. November is the problem because your plan included hiking and scenic drives, and a very tight, not actually possible, sight seeing schedule.
This is a direct quote, which I copied from a website that discussed the weather month by month in the Munich area.
"November the Munich Germany weather changes dramatically: days are a lot shorter now and it usually is cold, rainy, grey and foggy. As I write this (10th of November) you can't see more than 50 meters because of the fog. The air is cold and very humid, you can almost feel the water creeping into your clothes and your bones. In my opinion, November is the worst month of the year to visit Munich. Chances that you can do a lot of outdoor activities are slim."
Roads will be cleared if there is snow, which is not likely. More likely is rain and fog, which is not fun driving and will take more time. So, it is not so much a matter of driving safety as it is needing to adjust your plans to find things that will be interesting and enjoyable regardless of the weather. Maybe you are tough, and hiking in rain is OK with you, and if you are a photographer, gray, rainy days may give you some atmospheric shots. Otherwise, look hard for other activities, allow plenty of time to see things (tours of castle take more time than you think) and allow extra time for travel.
I would not do Neuremberg as a day trip if the Christmas market is on. There is usually music, food and all kinds of interesting things to buy, and it is fun in the evening with festive lights, walking around sipping hot wine, etc. I would have a hotel that would be close to settle into if I got too cold or wet to enjoy being out. Check out Munich's Christmas market also.
Don't book anymore hotels that you can't cancel. Then, if you are in Munich and it is a bad day, you can delay plans for another day.
Will you be in Venice the night before the cruise? A heads up. At least the first day out from Venice will be cold on the water. Many do not, but maybe your ship has a covered pool. Some do. That would be nice. If not, you will be wearing a coat part of the time.
This is a direct quote, which I copied from a website that discussed the weather month by month in the Munich area.
"November the Munich Germany weather changes dramatically: days are a lot shorter now and it usually is cold, rainy, grey and foggy. As I write this (10th of November) you can't see more than 50 meters because of the fog. The air is cold and very humid, you can almost feel the water creeping into your clothes and your bones. In my opinion, November is the worst month of the year to visit Munich. Chances that you can do a lot of outdoor activities are slim."
Roads will be cleared if there is snow, which is not likely. More likely is rain and fog, which is not fun driving and will take more time. So, it is not so much a matter of driving safety as it is needing to adjust your plans to find things that will be interesting and enjoyable regardless of the weather. Maybe you are tough, and hiking in rain is OK with you, and if you are a photographer, gray, rainy days may give you some atmospheric shots. Otherwise, look hard for other activities, allow plenty of time to see things (tours of castle take more time than you think) and allow extra time for travel.
I would not do Neuremberg as a day trip if the Christmas market is on. There is usually music, food and all kinds of interesting things to buy, and it is fun in the evening with festive lights, walking around sipping hot wine, etc. I would have a hotel that would be close to settle into if I got too cold or wet to enjoy being out. Check out Munich's Christmas market also.
Don't book anymore hotels that you can't cancel. Then, if you are in Munich and it is a bad day, you can delay plans for another day.
Will you be in Venice the night before the cruise? A heads up. At least the first day out from Venice will be cold on the water. Many do not, but maybe your ship has a covered pool. Some do. That would be nice. If not, you will be wearing a coat part of the time.
Oct 31st, 2016, 11:19 PM
#25
I do not intend to pile onto the arguments against a road trip; I'll just share a couple of anecdotes from our road trip through Germany last week. The first is that we were but 22km from our first destination, with an afternoon of sightseeing planned, when we and many, many other travelers were completely stopped on the A8 outside of Munich for four hours (!) because of a terrible accident. The road conditions and weather were excellent, too. All that remained for us to do that day was to eat dinner and readjust the holiday itinerary.
The second is that Germany seems to have decided a construction zone is necessary practically every 50km. We counted 32 on the autobahn stretches alone (many scenic, secondary roads were used as alternatives for autobahn traffic, also slowing travel), and estimated an extra 10 hours were added to our autobahn driving time. It was hardly Fahrvergnügen.
In short, please give serious consideration to your road trip plans.
The second is that Germany seems to have decided a construction zone is necessary practically every 50km. We counted 32 on the autobahn stretches alone (many scenic, secondary roads were used as alternatives for autobahn traffic, also slowing travel), and estimated an extra 10 hours were added to our autobahn driving time. It was hardly Fahrvergnügen.
In short, please give serious consideration to your road trip plans.
Nov 1st, 2016, 07:14 AM
#26
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Hi, everyone.
Thanks again, sassafras. You've always given us helpful advice. Just an update. We are thinking of modifying the trip this way:
Day 1Munich to Garmisch
Day 2 Fussen
Day 3 Mittenwald
Day 4 Innsbruck
Day 5 Bad Tolz
From here, we'll be taking the train to Salzburg then Vienna.
We've cancelled the long drives and extended our days so that if the weather is bad, we stay safe and wait til it's better. Do you think this is doable at least? We have to research more about Nuremburg first. And yes, we've learned our lesson and stopped booking non-refundable reservations. Our plan now is just to walk-in wherever we may be except for Salzburg and Vienna Coz they've already been booked.
As for Venice, we will be taking the 6:25 AM train from Vienna and reach Venice around 2PM on the same day of the cruise. We are hoping to attend a Viennese ball and it's only available the night before the cruise begins.
Hello, fourfortravel.
That's a story to tell, 4 hours in standstill and very recent? Goodness. I hope it doesn't happen to us but if it does, we've already revised our trip so there's less to do and we can make adjustments if something like that happens. I really appreciate the concern. By the way, was the navigator able to help?
Thanks again, sassafras. You've always given us helpful advice. Just an update. We are thinking of modifying the trip this way:
Day 1Munich to Garmisch
Day 2 Fussen
Day 3 Mittenwald
Day 4 Innsbruck
Day 5 Bad Tolz
From here, we'll be taking the train to Salzburg then Vienna.
We've cancelled the long drives and extended our days so that if the weather is bad, we stay safe and wait til it's better. Do you think this is doable at least? We have to research more about Nuremburg first. And yes, we've learned our lesson and stopped booking non-refundable reservations. Our plan now is just to walk-in wherever we may be except for Salzburg and Vienna Coz they've already been booked.
As for Venice, we will be taking the 6:25 AM train from Vienna and reach Venice around 2PM on the same day of the cruise. We are hoping to attend a Viennese ball and it's only available the night before the cruise begins.
Hello, fourfortravel.
That's a story to tell, 4 hours in standstill and very recent? Goodness. I hope it doesn't happen to us but if it does, we've already revised our trip so there's less to do and we can make adjustments if something like that happens. I really appreciate the concern. By the way, was the navigator able to help?
Nov 1st, 2016, 08:28 AM
#27
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The cruise concerns me.
I sure understand wanting to go to the Viennese ball, but what if for some reason your train is delayed?
What time is your cruise departing?
What time does the ship require all to be on board?
While the train terminal is fairly close to the docks, depending on where your ship is docked, it can still take 1/2 an hour to 45 minutes pulling luggage to get to the terminal. Then, and it has been awhile since we cruised from there, so my memory may not be accurate or things may have changed, but as I remember, going through security took another 1/2 hour to 45 minutes. So, from train terminal to being on board will take a minimum of an hour and probably more. Maybe you are used to doing it on cruises and don't worry about cutting it close, but IMHO, cutting things so close can really increase stress if there is even a minor problem.
We did it once, had several reasons, and thought there was plenty of time. Our flight was delayed and we made the ship with only minutes to spare. It was a terrible way to start the cruise, plus it was a Trans Atlantic, so catching up would have been impossible. It was really stupid to do that to ourselves. Never again!
We have adopted three hard rules for travel.
Always be in the city of departure the night before a flight, especially a costly international flight.
Always be in the city of departure for a cruise the night before, unless the ship is departing very late at night (some depart as late as 10:00 PM from San Juan), then very early morning is OK.
If at all possible, never take the only, or last flight of the day if you are connecting with another flight or joining a cruise. If you miss it or it is cancelled, you are stuck.
Taking weather and travel times into consideration, cutting back and allowing more time so you have more flexibility and are not stressed is very good, and you seem to be getting the need to do that.
One other thing. Have you been to Venice? If not, a couple of days there would be great. It is one place, that even in rain or fog, is absolutely beautiful.
I sure understand wanting to go to the Viennese ball, but what if for some reason your train is delayed?
What time is your cruise departing?
What time does the ship require all to be on board?
While the train terminal is fairly close to the docks, depending on where your ship is docked, it can still take 1/2 an hour to 45 minutes pulling luggage to get to the terminal. Then, and it has been awhile since we cruised from there, so my memory may not be accurate or things may have changed, but as I remember, going through security took another 1/2 hour to 45 minutes. So, from train terminal to being on board will take a minimum of an hour and probably more. Maybe you are used to doing it on cruises and don't worry about cutting it close, but IMHO, cutting things so close can really increase stress if there is even a minor problem.
We did it once, had several reasons, and thought there was plenty of time. Our flight was delayed and we made the ship with only minutes to spare. It was a terrible way to start the cruise, plus it was a Trans Atlantic, so catching up would have been impossible. It was really stupid to do that to ourselves. Never again!
We have adopted three hard rules for travel.
Always be in the city of departure the night before a flight, especially a costly international flight.
Always be in the city of departure for a cruise the night before, unless the ship is departing very late at night (some depart as late as 10:00 PM from San Juan), then very early morning is OK.
If at all possible, never take the only, or last flight of the day if you are connecting with another flight or joining a cruise. If you miss it or it is cancelled, you are stuck.
Taking weather and travel times into consideration, cutting back and allowing more time so you have more flexibility and are not stressed is very good, and you seem to be getting the need to do that.
One other thing. Have you been to Venice? If not, a couple of days there would be great. It is one place, that even in rain or fog, is absolutely beautiful.
Nov 1st, 2016, 09:43 AM
#28
prinstela, with the complete four hour traffic stop on the A8, we were already past the last possible exit and so had nowhere to go.
With other autobahn delays, we could use the navigation system to route around construction. But, so could everyone else.
I am curious, which Vienna ball are you attending in November?
With other autobahn delays, we could use the navigation system to route around construction. But, so could everyone else.
I am curious, which Vienna ball are you attending in November?
Nov 1st, 2016, 10:13 AM
#29
OK -- which is more important -- the Ball or the Cruise? Not being a smart a$$.
My guess is you must be on board by about 3PM since most cruises leave Venice by 5:00PM
If there is an issue with the train you will be SOL and will have to get to the next port on your own dime.
My guess is you must be on board by about 3PM since most cruises leave Venice by 5:00PM
If there is an issue with the train you will be SOL and will have to get to the next port on your own dime.
Nov 1st, 2016, 11:33 AM
#30
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Just did a bit of research for you, which you may already have. If so, disregard.
It seems you are on a Costa cruise. It departs at 5:00. Cut off for boarding is 4:00.
Costa used to provide a free bus from the train station to the ship. Check to see if they still do. The ride takes about 10 minutes, but you do have to wait for it to fill up, which may take 10 to 20 minutes.
Since most people try to board earlier, you should not have a long wait through security. Still, arriving at Santa Lucia Station at 2:00, you have less than an hour of leeway. It is perfectly doable if everything goes like clockwork.
It seems you are on a Costa cruise. It departs at 5:00. Cut off for boarding is 4:00.
Costa used to provide a free bus from the train station to the ship. Check to see if they still do. The ride takes about 10 minutes, but you do have to wait for it to fill up, which may take 10 to 20 minutes.
Since most people try to board earlier, you should not have a long wait through security. Still, arriving at Santa Lucia Station at 2:00, you have less than an hour of leeway. It is perfectly doable if everything goes like clockwork.
Nov 1st, 2016, 12:07 PM
#32
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Seems like a recipe for disaster. I don't have much interest in your sort of trip, but I do live in Europe and travel a LOT all over this continent, and I have a few rules I follow that enable me to get around without too many hassles: NEVER be further away than a taxi ride from a departure airport: NEVER be more than an hour away from a boat that's departine; and NEVER be more than 2 hours aways from the train you're scheduled on.
Nov 1st, 2016, 04:57 PM
#33
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Sassafras: Thanks for the tip on the free bus for the ship. Yes, you're right. We're taking the Costa cruise and on that departure. You're good. are trains from Vienna to Venice frequently delayed? We have about 3 hours of allowance between the train arrival and the cruise departure. In case we miss the Venice port, the next one will be at Bari. I really hope we don't but in case, hopefully there's a train for Venice to Bari?
are trains from Vienna to Venice frequently delayed? We have about 3 hours of allowance between the train arrival and the cruise departure. In case we miss the Venice port, the next one will be at Bari. I really hope we don't but in case, hopefully there's a train for Venice to Bari?
Nov 1st, 2016, 05:28 PM
#37
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There are trains from Venice to Bari (check bahn.de which has schedules for all of europe) but you would have to do an overnight train that takes 11 or 12 hours in order to arrive early in the day.
If you wait until the next morning there are faster trains - but then you again run the risk of getting to Bari too late to board the ship if there are any delays in travel. (Generally trains are fairly well on time - but esp at this time of year there can easily be delays of an hour or two - or labor problems that may even shut down the trains for a day).
If you wait until the next morning there are faster trains - but then you again run the risk of getting to Bari too late to board the ship if there are any delays in travel. (Generally trains are fairly well on time - but esp at this time of year there can easily be delays of an hour or two - or labor problems that may even shut down the trains for a day).
Nov 1st, 2016, 05:40 PM
#38
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I am sorry, but it is another miscalculation to say you have 3 hours. You absolutely do NOT have 3 hours!
The ship may depart at 5:00, but final boarding is at 4:00. You arrive at 2:00. You cannot count the time between final boarding time and departure time as part of your travel allowance time. It is not! You have exactly 2 hours, half of which is the minimal time needed to get from train and onto ship.
Yes, there are trains from Venice to Bari, usually about 8 hours. There are also flights from Treviso.
The ship may depart at 5:00, but final boarding is at 4:00. You arrive at 2:00. You cannot count the time between final boarding time and departure time as part of your travel allowance time. It is not! You have exactly 2 hours, half of which is the minimal time needed to get from train and onto ship.
Yes, there are trains from Venice to Bari, usually about 8 hours. There are also flights from Treviso.
