prinstela

My husband and I have decided to go on a road trip for our honeymoon. We have prepared our list of activities but are not sure if they'll all be good. We have not completed planning yet and are pressed for time as our trip is only a few weeks away. Could you please help us if this is all okay for winter?

Nov 18- Morning-exploring Munich
Lunch-(suggestions?)
2PM-Start Driving
3:30PM-Ettal Abbey
4:30 PM- Die Schaukaserei Ammergauer Alpen for dairy-making
5:10 PM-sight seeing at Oberammergau
Dinner?
7:30 PM-check-in(Airbnb @ Untermaggen)

Nov 19-9:20AM-Linderhof castle
10:25AM- hike at Partnach Gorge
11:30 AM-Karwendelbahn cable car ride
12:30 PM-Mittenwald for lunch(suggestions?)
2:30 PM-Neuschwanstein castle
3:00 PM- Füssen sight seeing
6:30 PM-dinner?

Nov 20- 9:30 AM-check-out
10:00AM-Walchensee lake
To Innsbruck, Salzburg
5PM-Check-in @ Schloss Leopoldskron

Nov 21-Salzburg-no itinerary yet
Road trip to Budapest-not sure which road to take...hopefully, one that is scenic and safe
Sleep in Maybe Budapest or someplace near

Nov 22- Budapest or Eger
No accommodation yet but I would like to see the thermal spring in Egerszalok
Visit some wineries perhaps?

Nov 23-Explore Budapest-no itinerary and accommodation yet

Nov 24- Drive back to Vienna
Accommodation booked
No activities planned yet
End of car rental

Nov 25-26 Vienna

Nov 27-off to Venice for cruise
Train booked

Originally, we only planned to take the German Alpine Road from Munich to Salzburg with a few detours and Vienna afterwards, which explains why we have a non-refundable booking in Vienna and can't go Salzburg-Vienna-Budapest instead which would have been more ideal. We only realized that Budapest is a nice place to go after we booked the hotel and train in Vienna. (Uh-oh!) This will be my first time in Europe and my hubby's first in this route.

We hope you could help us make this trip extra memorable. Even bits of tips for resto, accommodation or activities will be much appreciated. ☺️

I am very fond of castles and spas while hubby is a fan of food. Heheh!

We will be looking forward to read your suggestions.

Michael

There may be a stiff cross-border drop-off fee on your car rental. You can avoid that by renting your car in Austria (Salzburg) and backtracking to visit the Bavarian Alps. You could then cross over to Innsbrück to get back to Salzburg and continue on your journey.

Most of these photos would cover the area between Salzburg and Vienna, basically going down the Danube. It might give you some ideas of what to see:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/mksfca...926792957/show

nytraveler

I don't think that you are allowing for how early it will get dark. Not sure exactly for these places - you should check online - but I assume it will be full dark by 5 pm at the latest.

nytraveler

Sorry - it looks like you are not leaving nearly enough time to see many of these places - unless you are talking about a photo op out front rather than an actual visit - nor for time to drive from one place to another.

Also not sure wineries will be open in the winter - you need to check that.

Also are you used to driving in winer weather? What happens if you get snow or ice on the roads - are you used to dealing with that? The driving rules are very different.

pja1

Hi,

It will be dark by 5pm. For the days Nov. 18, 19, 20 and 21 I'd do a total rethink.
You're really not going to be seeing much, just stopping quickly and then hurrying to the next location.

For instance, Look at Nov. 19:
Arrive Linderhof at 9:20 (really, 9:20?). Buy tickets, wait and take the 35 minute tour. Could be at least an hour here. How can you be hiking in the gorge at 10:25am? You'll still be at Linderhof.


IF the Karwendel were open (according to the website it is not), it runs every 30 minutes. You allowed 1 hour total. That would mean a few minutes at the top.

http://www.karwendelbahn.de/page/en/...g_time___fares

It takes 1:30 to drive between Mittenwald and Neuschwanstein under ideal circumstances. 12:30 starts lunch in Mittenwald, meaning it needs to end by 1pm the latest.

20 minutes for Neuschwanstein? Why go at all? It takes at least 10 minutes to drive to Fuessen.

On Nov. 18th, you're sight seeing in Oberammergau starting at 5:10pm in complete darkness, plus it should be a ghost town mid November, same with Mittenwald.

If you'd like to hear what I'd do:

Pick out your "must sees". Neuschwanstein, Ettal, Linderhof, Partnach Gorge, Ammergauer Alpen and the Zugspitze (instead of Karwendelbahn) can all be done based in Garmisch or close by. 2 or 3 nights here. Drop car and train to Salzburg for an afternoon and night and train to the others.

Paul

greg

>>> Nov 19-9:20AM-Linderhof castle
Linderhof Palace is NOT open at 9:20am on Nov 19. Look at their web site:
http://www.schlosslinderhof.de/engli...st/opening.htm

kja

I agree with the comments already offered -- while you might (emphasis on MIGHT) see some interesting things, this plan would mean that you would not be able to see much of anything and you would potentially face some great difficulties because of weather.

In addition, if there is ANY chance that you will have jet lag, I would strongly encourage you to take public transportation for your first night or two. There is mounting evidence that driving with jet lag is just as dangerous -- to yourself and others -- as driving drunk, and nothing you can do will prevent the microsleeps (which you might not even notice) that are the apparent culprit.

I would strongly encourage you to pare your itinerary and use public transportation.

As for non-refundable bookings, look up "sunk costs."

Good luck!

fourfortravel

Some thoughts from one who lives in Vienna and spends weekends road tripping all about Austria and the neighbors.

"Road trip to Budapest-not sure which road to take...hopefully, one that is scenic and safe." On the autobahn the travel time will be at least 7 hours without traffic, construction, or other delays. Having driven between these cities many times, there is but one small stretch that is scenic (and only in good weather). Taking the secondary roads just means an even longer trip with likely bleak scenery at this time of year. Could you drop Budapest and perhaps stay in Salzburg longer, and take a day or so to explore the Salzkammergut? The Advent and Christmas markets will have opened by then and are particularly magical at night, and the villages themselves are pretty. http://www.wolfgangseer-advent.at Alternatively, or in addition to adding time to Salzburg, add a couple of days to Vienna and include day trips? In Vienna, too, there will be markets to explore along with the usual sightseeing.

Also, many wineries are closed or open only with limited hours in November, following the busy harvest season and festivals of September and October.

Just my €0,02. I hope this is helpful.

StCirq

Sorry, but to me this reads like a totally weird combination of nit-picking, anal planning (10:25 am - hike at Patnach Gorge - seriously?) and over-generalities that don't take into account realities like sundown and winter weather.

I can't see this turning into something truly memorable except for all the wrong reasons. Frankly, I'd scrap this plan entirely, forget totally about planning ANYthing down to the minute, because that simply will not happen, and forget all the driving and concentrate on public transportation.

Sassafrass

Hi Prinstela,
It is best to try and help a person figure out how to take the trip they want. However, I read your itinerary when you first posted and felt so discouraged about it, I waited to respond. I hoped someone with more recent experience would post, saying climate change had made November a great month to be there, and with a few tweaks, your itinerary would be wonderful, but it seems most feel the same about it as I do.

Before suggestions, here are the issues. It is IMHO, the worst time for that kind of trip. You see all the lovely pictures of blue Summer skies or Fall colors or magical white snow of Winter. Unless you are the luckiest of luckies, you will have none of that. All color from Fall will be gone and it will be dreary and gray. While you may get a bit of snow, it is more likely to be wet snow and lots of fog - no good views of scenery and mean driving. Days are short, so no evening sightseeing. Your plan is a hodge podge of back and forth and not enough time for things at the beginning.
The only advantage is that some places do look romantic in fog, if it is not so thick you can't see and evenings are nice in a pub or cafe or nice lodge with a fire going and perhaps music.

Questions? Is it too late to change tickets and delay trip to a better time of year to also give you time for a better plan? Are you arriving in Venice at least a day before the cruise? Where does the cruise end?

Going on the premise that time of trip can't be changed.
Skip Budapest altogether.
Forget lakes and scenic drives.
Spend most of your time in cities or larger towns with churches, castles, museums and great restaurants, things to do in poor weather.
Plan so that by late afternoon, you are in some charming places with great restaurants for your husband.

Your arrive in Munich. Stay there at least 2 nights, 1 full day, plus part of your arrival day. There are many beautiful things to see there, including a palace for you. Consider another night, depending on time.

Train to Nuremberg. Stay 3 nights, 2 full days. There is even a magnificent castle here for you and great food for your husband. The best wurst in Germany IMHO is Nuremberg worst, very small, but fine. Great Christmas market, so nice for evening walking.

Now, this is the part I am not comfortable with due to weather, but you could play it by ear, and others might make a better suggestion. Rent a car and from Nuremberg, cut over and do the Romantic Road South. Stay someplace along the way.

Head to Garmisch. Base there for seeing Linderhof and Neuschwanstein. There is another castle there that can be seen along with Neuschwanstein, can't think of it off hand.

Drive to Salzburg, at least 2 nights, 1 full day. Be sure to tour the palace. You could ditch the car in Salzburg and take the train to Vienna.

Train or drive to Vienna. If you do get snow, and it is pretty, do a horse and carriage ride. Don't miss St Stephen's cathedral. Take a tour of it. See the Lipizzaner horse show. Very fine food and teas in Vienna. Ditch the car when you arrive or keep for day trips if you have time.

I did not keep track of the days used, so you might have to cut something.

If you have a decent, bright day, Herrenchiemsee is my favorite of Ludwig's castles. It is in an island in Lake Chiemsee and you take a boat to get there, so boats must be running. It is near Salzburg. Do not even think about it unless weather is perfect!

You could forget a car, skip the Romantic Road, do a tour of Neuschwanstein and Linderhof from Munich, and use trains between Munich, Salzburg and Vienna.

If you skip the Romantic Road, on arrival in Munich, catch a train straight to Nuremberg. Stay at least 3 nights. Train back to Munich, stay 2 nights and continue from there.

Best of luck with turning this into a sweet trip.

kja

@ Sassafrass: “It is best to try and help a person figure out how to take the trip they want.” I think you do an absolutely awesome job of making that effort! But FWIW, I disagree with the premise. I would be more likely to say that it is best to help a person adjust his/her wish-trip to make a realistic plan for his/her/their interests and preferences, even if that means a drastic re-thinking of the “wanted” trip. And BTW, I also think that one of the strengths of Fodor’s is that there are people with diverse opinions about what is best / most helpful to OPs. Looking forward to continuing to see the ways in which we propose different solutions!

prinstela

Hi, everyone.

Thank you for all your responses and concerns. It's my first time in fodors and I'm very overwhelmed that it actually bridges the world into a community.

I have not considered all the aspects you've mentioned, honestly, but I'm very glad I learned about it now than through a bad experience.

My husband and I are trying to modify our trip. As most of our bookings are prepaid, we will try how we can adjust our budget as well. Huhuh!

So...
Driving is definitely not a good idea. We will try to stick to the cities instead. Would any of you know of a safe and accessible mountain area?
Would Eger be unsafe, too? We were hoping to try the bath cave.

Once again, thank you for all your suggestions and concern.

Macross

You need to look at rometorio
Nov 19-9:20AM-Linderhof castle will take at least two hours, only small groups go inside at a time.

10:25AM- hike at Partnach Gorge You have to drive back to Garmisch, impossible
11:30 AM-Karwendelbahn cable car ride


12:30 PM-Mittenwald for lunch(suggestions?) This is at least an hour from Garmisch and if there is snow can be a slower ride
2:30 PM-Neuschwanstein castle
You need to look at a map

3:00 PM- Füssen sight seeing
6:30 PM-dinner?

prinstela

Hi.

Will it be safe to drive from Munich to Fussen and Garmisch area at least?

Sassafrass

Even if things are pre-paid, many can be changed or even cancelled up to a few days before your arrival there.

Have you considered more time in Munich or Nuremberg?

pja1

We've driven to most of these places in December a couple of times. Never had any trouble at all. IF it snow, which is unlikely, the roads are cleared immediately.

prinstela

Hi, Sassafras.

Thank you for getting back to me about Nuremburg and for all your helpful tips on the thread.

Yes, now, that we're skipping Budapest, we can include Nuremburg. Do you suggest a day trip or an overnight stay there?

Yes, the biggest charge of the cancellation will be the car rental. We are considering using the car for half of the trip time during the shorter trips. Will it be safe to drive from Munich to Garmisch to Fussen to Nuremburg and back to Munich?

Thanks. you're a big big big help.

Grateful,

Princess

prinstela

Hi @pja1,

In which areas did you find it safe? And may I know what year that was?

kja

The problem with weather is that it is unpredictable. It's one thing to deal with it if on a pace that give you some latitude, so you can delay a trip by hours or even a day. It's another thing entirely if you're on a schedule, or if it starts snowing or sleeting while you are on the road, or come across a section that hasn't yet been cleared.

nytraveler

The problem is unlikely to be the driving (early for snow, although possible) the problem is that you have not left nearly enough time for anything. We have driven through that area a couple of times and loved it. But you need to look at each sight, check the open and closing times and see when they have tours in English. Then look at viamichelin.com to see driving times and double it - since you have no idea where you are going.

Get a good map and look where everything is and figure reasonable times to get places and do things. An itinerary would be am see castle X, lunch time explore a village and have lunch there, afternoon take a hike or see another castle. That is a very full day. What you have is simply ridiculous.

And put real starting times, actual times the places are open and when sundown is - so you're not driving down dark country lanes at night.

This will mean either taking several cities out of your list - or taking places you have listed in one day and doing them in 3 days.

Sorry - but you just have a whole lot more work to do.