lanejohann

Hi All
Family is off next year to Scotland in july but my daughter ( twenties) and possibly son and his g/f (twenties) have about nine days to spend between our three day stopover in Singapore ( coming from Australia ) and the time we need to be in Edinburgh or Glasgow ( depending on best flight deals)
We went to Germany/ Austria/ Poland and Greek islands last year so I'm thinking that Belgium might be a good base or maybe Amsterdam for a few days and brussels for the rest
Five days is a satisfactory time for us in each place
We love history...so castles and Ww2 sites are the go

Brussels looks fine but over the years Ive heard that people prefer Antwerp
Brussels looks central and ive read that train travel is inexpensive and major sights are within easy reach
I'm thinking of say Gent
we could also access Rotterdam I suppose

So..any thoughts? Is Brussels the best place to stay and then do whatever daytrips from there?
Or is Antwerp just as easy but nicer/ prettier?

After this leg we will have to get to Edinburgh
I know for instance that we could stay in Amsterdam and get to London and then to Edinburgh by train and plane/train

since weve been to Austria last year, Switzerland might be too similar and we are seeing mountains in Scotland so that's why I thought a flatter landscape might be a good contrast...hence Beligium or the Netherlands

thanks for any recommendations for a good district to stay in Brussels
not into nightclubs but do want to be in the historic district

janisj

Just a couple of quick comments:

If you have 5 days you might also want to check out hitting some of eastern Belgium - Liege and south from there. The Ardennes/Bulge area is chock-a-block full of WW2 sites. You could do 2 or 3 days based in Brussels or Bruges or Antwerp and 2 or 3 days in the general Bastogne/Spa/Stavelot area

From Belgium (or A'dam) you could fly directly to Scotland and not have to faff about connecting through London.

Whathello

Un Bruxelles stay close to gare centrale. Avoid area of gate du midi. Bruxelles is great or scent but I would not base in Antwerpen. Go to meuvent too.
Visit the caves at Han sur lesse.
If you have a car go to la vallée de la molignee or la vallée de la lesse

lanejohann

thanks so much janisj!
just thinking ...
looking at webjet
if we go from Singapore we have to go through Zurich it seems to get to brussels

so maybe its better to get direct flight from Singapore to Amsterdam ..stay there for a few days and then train it to brussels
I saw that there are trains to London from brussels but now you;re saying we can fly straight to Edinburgh...sounds perfect!
We've been twice to singapore before so have seen lots already(this is basically a stopover just to break the long flight)...if we cut it down to two full days ie Saturday and sunday...and take the late night flight to Amsterdam then wed be there around 9am ... that leaves us ten full days to explore Amsterdam and brussels and have the following day as a travel day to get up to Edinburgh to meet OH

earlier this year (sorry I typed that it was last year)we spent five days in berlin and that included a daytrip to Potsdam as well as a train trip to one of the lakes so essentially we saw what we wanted in three days...I'm gathering that that's what wed do in Amsterdam and brussels

lanejohann

thanks whathello
we will not have a car til we get to Scotland...that's when husband will do the driving

ill look into your recommendations

lavandula

Just on the WWII sites in the Ardennes - the battles in the Bastogne area were fought by Americans rather than Australians, and there is no Australian history in the area. I don't know if that changes the importance of seeing those areas for you coming from Australia, but the Ardennes is a nice place to visit (particularly by car) anyway and I don't like to suppose that the museums there are of less interest for you.

Where there were Australians fighting in Belgium was in West Flanders, in WWI, not II. Important sites are Passendale (Passchendaele), Ieper (Ypres) (the Last Post is still played daily at the Menin Gate there, which is inscribed with the names of Commonwealth soldiers), and Tyne Cot, which is an Australian war cemetery. There are also numerous WWI sites in northern France that have significance for Australians. I have been to a series of Anzac Day ceremonies at the sites in Flanders and it was very moving. Again you would probably want a car - or a tour guide - as Tyne Cot is not accessible by train. I understand there are a lot of guides for the area. Ieper however is easily reached by train.

In Brussels stay near Bruxelles-Central (a premium area), or if you are prepared to be not so central, the Louise area (nice but a metro / tram ride away), the Sainte-Catherine area, the area near De Brouckère (the last 2 are pretty close into the centre). If you are timing your stay in Brussels with a weekend, the European district may be a little cheaper but accommodation still of a high standard; try to stay not so far from a metro station like Schuman or Trône to keep accessible to the city. I agree with Whathello, Bruxelles-Midi is less desirable; likewise near Bruxelles-Nord and Saint-Josse Ten Noode.

Lavandula

lanejohann

thanks Lavandula for your fulsome reply
will make note of all your suggestions

have been looking at hotels near the grand place...trying to find something in the historic district ..want to be in the thick of things

did a daytrip to bruges a couple of years ago from paris and
loved it

this time I really would prefer to have as few bases as possible so picking bigger cities and staying longer

we will not have a car and I don't feel like lugging bags with my daughter..so much easier with my son in tow but we aren't sure whos coming and when

Whathello

Bruxelles : from Colle, fodors
You could easily fill two days in Brussels. There are chocolate stores all over Brussels. I recommend going to the Grand Sablon--many of the well known places have shops there--Pierre Marcolini, Wittamer, Godiva, Neuhaus, Leonidas, Passion (and there are also some other neat art, antique, and home furnishing shops there, too). The hot chocolate at Wittamer is amazing and, on a nice day, it's lovely to sit outside and take in the scene. If you are in the Sablon on a Saturday or Sunday, the antiques market will be going on.
Don't buy the chocolate in the tourist shops where they are offering 10 boxes for a special price or things like that. Most of this is low quality chocolate and not worth it. For another delicious treat, be sure to get a warm Gaufre de Liege--a carmelized sugar waffle.
Besides chocolate (and waffles), there are lots of interesting things to do in Brussels. You definitely have to see the magnificent Grand Place. Even though he's overrated, you should also swing by the Manneken Pis statue/fountain. It's actually fun to see him if you happen to catch him on a day when he is dressed up. If you really enjoy this sort of thing, you can go find the female version (Janneken Pis) and the dog version (Zinneke Pis). The dog version is near the Halles St Gery, which is a beautiful old covered market building that has been converted to a tourist desk/coffee shop and exhibition space. There are usually at least two exhibits going on and they have always been free when I have been there. It is worth stopping by just to see the building. This is also a lively neighborhood for restaurants, especially Asian restaurants, with many outdoor cafes.
If you like Art Nouveau architecture, I suggest getting the map from the tourist office on the Grand Place and following the nice walking route marked for some fantastic examples. You could also go to the Victor Horta House museum. If you are into comics, the same map also has a walking tour of the comic strip murals painted on buildings around Brussels. There also is a comic strip museum.
If you like modern art/surrealism, the Magritte Museum is well worth a visit. This is not my favorite type of art, but I thoroughly enjoyed the museum. The audioguide is very well done and really enhanced my visit. I am not sure I would have appreciated it as much without it.
If you like military history, the Royal Museum of the Armed Forces and Military history is great. I liked it a lot, even though I am not a huge military history buff. It is located in one of the buildings by the arch in the Parc Cinquantenaire. The collection is very impressive--all sorts of military uniforms, weapons, armor, artifacts, and even all sorts of vehicles like tanks, airplanes, helicopters, etc. There is a whole hangar of them. The museum is free, including the visit to the top of the arch where you can have a nice view over Brussels. The park itself is nice for a stroll or a run if you are looking to get some exercise in.
Don't miss walking through the covered shopping arcades of the Galeries St Hubert. These are really beautiful and near the Grand Place. You can also walk through the Parc de Bruxelles and walk by the Palace.
There are many more things to do in Brussels, but this should get you started. Enjoy your trip!
Add-on
You can go and see Autoworld if you like cars : an impressive collection just inf front of the Musée de l'Armée, Cinquantenaire
The Atomium for some is great - and there is a view. Next to it you have mini-Europe, reproductions of Europe main 'attractions' in smaller size.
Le musée de la BD is also great to visit.
Don't forget to drink some beers, my favourites places were close to le cimetière d'Ixelles (L'Atelier has over 800 beers ?)
Le musée des instruments de musique, close to Grand-place is housed in an old Horta building - you get 2 visits in one !

Whathello

Belgium
La vallée de la molingée
Les 3 vallées http://www.belgiumtheplaceto.be/the-three-valleys.php


Driving in Belgium is easy - I have driven about half a million Kms in that gorgeous country.

This being said : cities are a nightmare. The peripheric roads (we call them 'rings') are always congested and forget about rush hour. Bruxelles intra muros is crazy. Just try to avoid or drive at 2 am.

Rush hour in Antwerpen starts at 6 to ? in Bruxelles from 7 to 9 30.

The Ardennes are spectacular by road. Beautiful - try to follow some valleys (Molignée has my preference, or ourthe or Lesse).

Bruxelles is a beautiful city if you know where to go - get a book and don't bypass it whatever people tell you. La Grand Place is superb, le Sablon is fantastic, les Galeries (reine et roi) very nice, Place SainteCatherine is cool etc etc.

Charleroi was mentioned : Don't ever go there. I am the biggest specialist on this town and can tell you all in one word : avoid. Nothing there.

Cities and towns are gorgeous : Mechelen was mentioned, Leuven is fantastic, Ieper, Oudenaarde, Lier (Lier !) Dinant, Huy (Lesse...) are great small cities.

Close by in Germany
Koeln is a beautiful city - quite big. Aachen is smaller and friendlier and splendid. I love Germany quite a lot. They don't really have good beer but the Koelsch is ok. For women that is. Highways are always under construction. Been doing Liège - Koeln for years now and never seen it without roadworks. First word of German I learnt was 'Stau' - congestion.

There is nothing in the Netherlands. Not even beer (Belgian beer is far better) nor cheese (french cheese is far superior). Yeah maybe some tulips but who eats tulips ?
(Maastricht is splendid and so are a few small towns but the food is always mediocre). Even by non Belgian standards. In case you doubt me, just read history books : we were ruled by these guys for some decades and kicked them out with 4 people in rags in 1830. They tried to come back but the French gave them a beating - sometimes these guys are useful. Since then the Low countries are made of 2 parts : Belgium and Netherlands. Like black and white : everything great in Belgium and - yes, you got it.

Some tips about driving :
- lots of speed cameras in NL, Flanders and we start to see a lot of those in Wallonia too.
- don't turn on red, that is a rule for non civilized people (like those in SoCal)
- stick ALWAYS to the lane the most at the right and NEVER, EVER overtake from the right - that is criminal.
- Belgians are probably by far the worst drivers in all Europe. And albeit we are raised with beer we drive even worse when drunk.
- some cities ask for a sticker to prove they are not polluting too much (esp in Germany).
No tolls on roads for private cars neither in NL, B or D.

Whatever you do you can't do wrong - the whole area is great (even some parts of NL ... small ones) .

lavandula

If you don't have a car don't worry - the train network in Belgium is amazing and very dense so you won't miss out. Especially within cities - the public transport is really excellent, and if anything having a car in most cities is a drawback - gotta find somewhere to park that car that doesn't break the bank ...

Lavandula

lanejohann

Thank you thank you!
Great replies!

Not into chocolate or beer...cutting back on sugar and never been into alcohol so life has no real meaning really lol lol

Will not drive in Europe

Ideas shared are fantastic
Appreciate the time you all take to send me your thoughts
Great adventures start on fodors and I am so humbled by the interest and expertise!

I am thinking ...
Since we loved Bruges so much..maybe gent would be a better base?
(As in returning to a low key city rather a business bustle type city like Brussels each day after day tripping)
Of course the train station has to be fairly convenient but we still wAnt to be in historic area
What u think about that variant ?

And is gent easy to get to from Amsterdam by train?

I'm thinking we will do Amsterdam first since there's a direct flight from Singapore where we will be doing a short break
Then head down to Belgium

lavandula

Gent is not a bad base as long as you realise that the main train station is quite a hike (about 1/2 hr) from the town. So you can offset that by picking accommodation near the station, but if you wanted to go to dinner in Gent you'd have a walk or a tram ride. If you go anywhere to the east of Brussels (such as Dinant, Namur, Liège, Spa...) then you'd need to change in Brussels, which is the main rail hub.

Gent is also a 'living' city, unlike Bruges, and is quite busy, with a student population. But you are right, quieter than Antwerp or Brussels. However, I will point out that the 'big city' features in Brussels are only observable if you are in that district (European Quarter, and a little bit in St Josse / Madou).

If you wanted to get to Gent easily from Amsterdam you could catch the train to Antwerp and change there, as there is a direct line from Antwerp to Gent (easy). Gent is awfully pretty and rivals Bruges in many ways.

Lavandula

Whathello

Also Gent center became mostly forbidden to cars so it should be nice to walk. Not been since carefree zone was implemented.

lanejohann

Thank you again!
I have booked our flights so we have about ten days to split between Amsterdam and a base in Belgium before we have to fly/ train it to Edinburgh
Ive been reading bits and pieces and am now leaning towards Antwerp
It is very disappointing that shops close around 630 even in Antwerp
is that true of the real touristy part?
I read that Gent/ Ghent (like Bruges)is very quiet after the tourists go home and it's a shame that the railways station accessing the major daytrip destinations is far away
I don't think wed stay near the railway
we prefer to be in the old town area and be able to go for dinner in a place that is picturesque..at least architecturally speaking

lavandula

Most shops will close between 5 and 7 except for bars, cafes and restaurants and the 'night shops' (small neighbourhood shops which don't open before 6pm), and are open Mon - Sat. This is also true of Brussels, although both Brussels and Antwerp have some Sundays open (in Antwerp the first Sunday of the month). Some supermarkets are open 7 days a week although there aren't many that do this. I think you will find some shops open in the tourist areas (like chocolate shops, for instance). Cinemas will also be open. And there are always markets. I don't know the markets in Antwerp but I know of 2 -3 in Brussels that open on a Sunday.

You might find some restaurants / other parts of the hospitality industry are closed Mondays, being open all weekend.

Lavandula