Base cities
 

Hi
I would like some helps to make my itinerary please !
We would drive into Geneva from Lyon and would like to make a clockwise or counterclockwise direction to finally drive to Marseille
We would like to visit : Geneva, Lausanne ,Montreux, Lavaux vineyard, Zermatt, Lugano, St Moritz, Lucerne , Bern, Interlaken Jungfrau Region ( will stay in Gimmelwald or Lanterbrunnen ?) Zurich , Basel , Neuchatel
Which places are ok for bases ? ( 3 or 4 places )
How long for each places ( so we can visit the place and do day trips from )
How long would be reasonable for the whole trip ? ( 17 days ? )
We will have car , can also use train
We will not do a lot of hiking cause we will go with my 80 y o mom , we like nature ( but not extrem sport !) cities , gastronomy, Architecture , some museum !
We will go in mid May 2019
Thanks so much for any informations

IMO, your wish list is WAY too ambitious. For some perspective, you might look at my report of a month in Switzerland, during which I was not able to include all the places you hope to visit -- and I traveled much faster than most people would consider reasonable.
https://www.fodors.com/community/eur...thanks-983126/

I would STRONGLY encourage you to consider using the excellent public transportation (trains and, when necessary, buses) in Switzerland rather than renting a car.

What makes for a good base depends on what, exactly, you hope to see and experience. For Geneva, Lausanne, Montreux, and the Lavaux vineyards, consider Geneva, Lausanne, or Vevey. Note that if traveling in May, the Bernese Oberland is not necessarily a good choice -- many things could be closed. I, personally, wouldn't go to St. Moritz (overly touristed, IMO), but the Engadine (Upper and Lower) is a delightful region IMO -- and easily worth a week for just a cursory glimpse. Etc.

Please get a good guidebook or two, do some research, and come back once you have either narrowed your wish list drastically or added substantially to your time.

P.S. Are you committed to including Lyon and Marseille on this trip? I suspect that knowing that will help other Fodorites formulate a response to your post.

Hope that helps!

You have posted the same question on another forum... please see that other forum for my reply to your question!

I did one trip where I based in Lausanne for 6 nights and did day trips to Geneva, Montreux, and Zermatt (also Sion, Guyere an Bern). I did that because I knew the Matterhorn is often clouded over and I wanted the best possible weather. I got up early and checked the forecast each day (often different from what it had been the night before) and got a good day on my 5th (out of 6) day.


Another trip I based in Interlaken for 5 days. Same reason. I day tripped into the mountains (including Gimmelwald, Lauterbrunnen, etc.) on the two best days, and day tripped to Bern and another day to towns on the lake (Thun, Spitz, etc.). That trip I also spent two nights in Lucerne and did a day trip to Zurich.



Haven't been to the others except Lugano which I visited on a day trip from Lake Como. Photos of all these places are at: https://andiamo.zenfolio.com/f283697298



All of this was by train. So what I did was about 13 nights and I didn't feel rushed. Not sure if or how you would logically include St Moritz, Basel and Neuchatel.



I assume Lyon and Marseille are in addition to the time in Switzerland. Why are you starting and ending there if you main objective is Switzerland? Perhaps that's additional time?

I think Isabel shows the possibilities well. I was going to say that Lausanne or maybe Vevey for that area (plus Montreux and the vineyards) as a base.

I don't think your list is that impossible except maybe drop a couple things and add a couple days. Basel isn't that exciting, for one thing, having been there. I haven't been there, but have heard Geneva isn't either, it's mainly a business city, isn't it?

The Lyon and Marseille thing is curious, what's that all about? I could see Lyon maybe if there is some great flight deal as it isn't too far, but what's with Marseille?

Thank you all for those information
My 17 days are for Switzerland only , but i can add a few days or drop St Moritz ?
Lyon is because the air ticket from Montreal is the cheapest and Marseille because of a family reunion !
I have an idea now how to finalise my itinerary , just have to figure out how to do it all by train or by car or combine both !
Thanks

For train (and other public transportation) information in Switzerland, try sbb
https://www.sbb.ch/en/home.html

Gimmelwald is a poor base - very remote - unless you mean Grindelwald which would be a great base for the area and has neat closeup views of glacier-girdled high Alps. I'd base there and also Lucerne and Lake Geneva area - St. Moritz is too far off your route and would take a day to get there and a day back. You'll have to take trains around the Jungfrau Region as cars are banned beyond Lauterbrunnen and Grindelwald - Gimmelwald can't be reached by car so cross that off as a base as you have to take a bus to a cable car to get there. For lots on Swiss trains check in addition to www.sbb.ch - www.swisstravelsystem.com; www.ricksteves.com and BETS-European Rail Experts.

The bus and train ride from Lugano via Lake Como - Valtellina - Valposchiavo - Bernina to St. Moritz (Bernina Express, fully covered by Swiss Travel Pass) is one of the most scenic rides you can do within Switzerland. If you continue to Chur (- Lucerne/Zurich) the first step will be done via Albula railway (Unesco World Heritage).

Agree but with two caveats -- the Bernina Express bus only runs in spring, summer autumn and not in winter. It has to be booked well in advance on www.berninaexpress.ch and is only one per day leaving Lugano station at 1000. Connects to the afternoon BEX from Tirano to St Moritz.

The bus ride sounds wonderful - "along lake Como" - but in fact the lakeshore road is often in tunnels and there are few opportunities to actually see the lake. Plus the road goes through a lot of small towns and speed is very slow.

The Bernina Express bus runs on Thursdays, Fridays, Saturdays and Sundays from February 21st until November 24th and
DAILY fom April 22nd until October 27th.
It leaves Lugano at 10.00 and arrives at Tirano at 13.00. You can have lunch in the restaurants around Tirano railway station.
The connecting Bernina Express train leaves Tirano at 14.27, all the year round.

All roads and the railway line along Lake Como pass through many tunnels. Therefore it's nicer to do the Lake Como leg by boat (bus Lugano - Menaggio, boat Menaggio - Colico, train Colico - Tirano). But this solution needs more time and 3 changes instead of one.

I just spent a Saturday riding the BEX bus and enjoyed my ride immensely. This was the only portion of that trip that I had not travelled. While there were small towns and tunnels, I thought the ride was very, very scenic. As I had a rail pass, I booked my window seat, online, ahead of time. Once I arrived in Tirano, I travelled on to Pontresina for the night, a short train ride.

If the bus under discussion is the one from Lugano to Tirana, then I'm with Huggy -- it thought it very scenic.

Thank a lot every body for a ton of very helpful informations !

Are you kidding? Pick three bases for a 15-day trip -- suggest Lucerne, Interlaken & Montreux. Zermatt was not the highlight of our trip, so I'd pass on that and Lugano. Use the trains. Interlaken is the perfect hub from which to explore the Jungfrau, and if the weather is not good (May is kind of the shoulder season), a convenient spot from which to get to Bern. Zurich, Geneva and Basel are not the heart of what's extraordinary about Switzerland. Even if you choose to purchase a 5-figure watch, you will find plenty in Lucerne!

Lyon, Geneva, Lausanne, Montreux, Lavaux, Zermatt, Lugano, St Moritz, Lucerne , Bern, Interlaken, Gimmelwald or Lanterbrunnen, Zurich, Basel, Neuchatel, Marseille

That's 16 places in 17 days. That's the plan??

All those places are interesting BUT you can see many of them from another - no sense in moving hotels when all you are doing is going a few km away.

See geneve en route from Lyon to Montreux
See the Lavaux from Montreux
Skip Neuch tel AND Marseilles. Neuch tel not worth it and Marseilles too far away
Zermatt - to me it is a marvellous place and I have been going there regularly for over 50 years!
Skip Lugano - complicated to get to from Zermatt. Instead take the Glacier Express Zermatt/St Moritz which is a remarkable train ride.
St Moritz for the Upper Engadin valley and a day trip on the Bernina line to Tirano and back
From Luzern see Bern, Basel and Zürich
From Wengen, Mürren or Grindelwald see The Jungfrau region, the lakes of the Oberland and use Interlaken only to change trains. Nothing to see or do there aside from souvenir shops and tourist "schlock" unfortunately.

IF possible fly into Lyon and out of Zürich...

You will just be passing through a number of places rather than actually "visiting" them. That's all right -- I do that quite regularly, and often just spending an hour or two in a town satisfies me completely, even though I know that it deserves more time (in a perfect world).

You could easily do the Swiss part of the trip without needing to buy the Swiss motorway vignette, but you are spending long enough in the area to make it worthwhile. If you are getting the car in Lyon, there is already a pretty good chance that the car would already have one. And it never hurts to ask at the rental agency if they have a car that has the vignette. Even renting cars in Paris, I sometimes am given a car that has the Swiss vignette on it already.

No no , Lyon and Marseille will not be in the count for Switzerland ! and i can add a few days to Switzerland too !
Thanks for your concern ! haha !

I agree with PalenQ that Gimmelwald is not a good base to explore the Jungfrau region. You have to hike to Murren or take a gondola every time you want to eat—no restaurants in Gimmelwald. Lauterbrunnen is in the valley, and I like being in the mountains for the incredible views. We enjoyed staying in Grindelwald—good transportation and varied restaurant choices. Other options would be Wengen or Murren.

Thanks , i did not know that you ll need a Swiss motorway vignette !

If you drive, you won't be able to appreciate much of the scenery (you'll have to keep your eye on the road) and you'll be less able to enjoy the few places that you actually stop (because you won't have had the time to relax while on trains). In contrast, Swiss trains are comfortable and convenient.

I agree - taking public transport here is easier than driving. I own a car but mostly use trains when I travel to other places in Switzerland. For one I do not have to park a train AND it gets me right into the centre of the town I am visiting.

Autoroute vignette - cost is 40frs and you MUST have one stuck on your windscreen to drive on our autoroutes/autobahns/autostrade. Signs for those are white on green. Normal road signs are white on blue and those roads are free BUT they wend their way through towns and villages. Speed limits drop to 30km/hr and in some places 20km. Priority changes depending on the speed limit as well. 30km/hr - traffic coming from the right has absolute priority. Pedestrians have none but you are encouraged to stop to allow them to cross anywhere on the road (pedestrian crossings on 30 and 20km/hr roads have been eliminated aside from some places near schools and hospitals). 20km/hr pedestrians have total priority anywhere. traffic coming from your right does too. Probably you are not used to these things - nor to the difference when the speed limit is 50km/hr!! And there are roundabouts everywhere. Some have two lanes and entering and exiting those depends on where your exit is to be. They are very complicated and fines for not sticking to the rules are high - in Solothurn someone was fined 2000frs for failure to be in the correct lane for the exit he wanted to take! So - all in all - public transport is a LOT easier !

I'm completely confused by this chaotic itinerary, so I'll just add that I don't know a single European who goes to Switzerland for a vacation and drives.

Tons of Europeans drive in their own car from their home to Switzerland for tourism.

I very much enjoy driving in Switzerland, although I have promised myself that some day I will actually buy the Swiss Pass for a trip there.

Ouch!

Just a comment on the topic of driving....

It seems to me somewhat cavalier to drive where there is, arguably, the best public transport network in Europe. Especially these days when we know so well the effects of auto pollution. I get the need to drive in rural France and Italy... but not in Switzerland. And as kja notes, it is actually more fun -- everyone can enjoy the scenery; it's prime people-watching time; you can eat in the bistro car, read, nap, or even mix with the locals on the train with you. You won't be locked into your private moving bubble....

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As others noted, it's a lot to fit in. I can't imagine doing all locations in 17 days, given how much stuff there is to do in each location. Considering the mobility issues and the lack of hiking, you may wish to adjust your itinerary. If she can handle the thinner at elevation, there are a number of trains, cog wheels and cable cars that will give you some of the sights without the exertion. The car will also help. May is more challenging, as well. (I used to live in Lausanne)

I would not base the first leg in Geneva. You can make a stop while en route to either Lausanne or Montreux (or Vevey). You can then hit the Lavaux from here, dip down to Geneva, and even day trip to Bern and Neuchatel (and Gruyeres). That being said, Neuchatel has a lovely lake, the watch makers, and castle but is a bit of an outlier. Make time also to take the ferry ride, perhaps as an alternative to driving between the two and/or the Chateau du Chillon. You can also take the cog wheel train to Rochers de Naye.

I would base either in Interlaken or in the Jungfrau and use Lucerne to daytrip into Zurich. You can hit Zermatt on your way to that area or as a daytrip from Lausanne/Montreaux. While Lugano and the lakes are beautiful, it's really tough to include that as well. Basel has a slighly different flavor but also adds a lot of driving (onward from Basel/Jungfrau) and that road is just not that interesting (but fast). You could conceivable exit over to the French side from there and route down to Marseilles . Or you could ditch Basel and head to Lugano, and then route to Marseilles through Italy instead. St Moritz is quite far away -- unless you take the special train I would drop it. Conceivably you could go to St Moritz after Lugano but then you'd end up very far away from Marseilles.

Unless you are very far west in Switzerland - Geneva for example - the quickest route to the French coast is indeed via Italy. Either St Gotthard road tunnel OR Simplon or St Bernard passes (tunnel in the latter case) and then down via Alessandria and Savona OR if on the St Bernard, around Torino and down to Savona. From there it is an easy and very scenic drive along the coast. Marseilles is quite far to the west though...

From all places in Switzerland, except the Cantons of Uri, Ticino and Grischun, thes fastest itinerary to Marseille goes via Geneva.

I ll drop St Moritz and keep the other places , i ll have no choice to base in Geneva cause i have a congress there for 3 days ! so i think will stay there for 4 days then go to Montreux as 2nd base for 4 nights ( day trips to Lausanne, Gruyere , Lavaux ), Zermatt 2 nights , Lugano 2 night, Lucerne 4 nights ( day trip to Zurich , Basel , Rhine Falls , Neuchatel ) Grindelwald 4 nights( Day trips to Bern , Jungfrau region ,Lake Thun and Brien )and back to Geneva( for driving to Marseille )for a total of 20 days in Switzerland , Its more reasonable than 17 days i think !
Car or Train , both have their pro and con ! I ll think harder about it taking in all of your opinion and will decide ( We did a trip in Japan using only Train and Public transport cause of course we can t read street s sign but their subway and bus and ferry have English signs !)! My hubby have had his share of driving in Italy , Palermo , South Africa ( left side ) so he is not bad for driving in a foreign country !
Thanks again all of you for a ton of helpful information !

Better! But I think you still have some kinks worthy of attention. For example:

If going all the way to Lugano, you might want to find at least one or two more nights for the Ticino.

With 4 nights in Lucerne (giving you 3 full days in Lucerne and bits of the days to either side), I'm puzzled by how you plan to do 4 different day trips (each of which would seem to require a full day). And it doesn't seem that you would have any time for Lucerne itself.

Likewise, with 4 nights in Grindelwald, you have basically 3 days, and you have 3 day trips planned -- seems like something is getting short-changed!

Trains and buses in Switzerland are just about as easy and convenient as the ones in Japan, and of course signs and announcement in Switzerland will be in multiple languages, including English.

On paper - maybe. But when you drive from central Switzerland or the Valais via Geneva and then get onto the A7 at Valence you have a LOT of traffic. And frequent traffic jams. Going via Torino and Savona is fast and there is hardly any traffic aside from the ring road around Torino.

Trains and buses are quite reliable in Switzerland, but driving is probably among the easiest and most stress free of any country -- just don't get too big of a car as some of the garages and even streets can be tiny (and of course, don't speed, vignettes, etc).

You can consider hitting Bern and Neuchatel on your way down from Grindelwald, rather than trying a day trip. You basically have to bypass Bern on your way back down to Geneve. It's a long drive for one day, and I would not want to hit Marseilles at night for the first time. You might consider an overnight in say, Annecy or somewhere else along the way, instead of Geneve, to break up that day.