Margot
I looked in the yellow pages for Pertus and there's no car rental on the French side. To bad!

Back to the drop off fees.

Blackduff

Thanks b'duff - I really appreciate your efforts! Stu, will once agin look into your suggestion when I get home - I'll let y'all know after I get the info.

Thanks again! :)

I'm not going to enter into how or where you should travel, as I think you already have enough great suggestions to sort through! However, if you haven't already decided where to overnight, check out this website. It is full of paradores and similar properties all over Europe. I have stayed at numerous ones in the Pyranees and other parts of Spain, and can highly recommend them. They are very reasonably priced and are normally only accepted into the publications if they offer something 'special' - as the title suggests! www.specialplacestostay.co.uk

I know there is tons to see in Barcelona (I am going in Septemer) but if you have a free afternoon, think about going about and hour and a half south, to a little beach resort called Peniscola. It's very pretty and its old castle was where "El Cid" was filmed. This is the URL for more information: http://www.costamediterranea.com/tou...lon/peniscola/

Have a great trip!

Margot,

How about this:

After you Barcelona convention, take a cheap flight back to Paris. Have an elegant supper of oysters at midnight at Le Dome or La Coupole or some such. The following morning, take the TGV to Bordeaux or wherever Stu suggests, and rent a car to start your Dodorgne trip. Wind it up in Toulouse, and take the Toulouse/Amsterdam flight back to Newark.

margot

Here is what I would do.

Rent a car in Barcelona, and drive via Perpignan to Caarcassonne. The train to Toulouse is about $120 for two, and rental rates for a car picked up in Spain are less for one in France - so the drop-off charges might be a wash.

It's about a 3 hr drive to Carcassonne, but you are departing at rush hour, so you might budget 3 1/2 hrs to get there. You can drive faster than ViaMichelin or Mappy has you traveling, but they have radar along that road. Also, I have seen some back-ups crossing the border, and the traffic gets a little snarled around Perpignan. It's all freeway, however. I bet the conference lets out a litle earlier than 5:30, but if you hit the road at at 5:30, you might make Carcassonne by 9. Carcassonne is a quick on/off the freeway. You'll definitely spot Carcassonne when you approach. Stay at a hotel within the fortress.

Next morning take a tour of the Chateau. My Michelin Guide says tours start at 9:30 - but that sometimes means that they start to sell tickets at 9:30 and the tour starts at 10. Check with your hotel there. In any event, you should be finished with the tour at 11.

Get back onn the freeway and head toward Toulouse on the A61, then the A20 north towards Cahors. Just after crossing the Lot River at Cahors, get off the freeway at exit #57 and head east on the D49, then the D653 south to Vers. It's about a 2 1/4 drive from Carcassonne to here, so you should get here around 1:15. At Vers, take the D662 east and drive past St Cirq Lapopie - which is actually on the opposite side of the Lot river. Past St Cirq, cross the bridge over the lot - you will be rewarded with some wonderful views of St Cirq. Head west to St Cirq & have lunch there and explore this village perched on a cliff over the Lot River. It's a little touristy, but quite nice. You should get there at 1:30 or so. After lunch (or a quick sandwich), continue west past St Cirq and turn right & cross the bridge over the Lot again. Head east and the turn north on the D41 to Caberets and the fabulous cave at Peche Merle. They will be closed for lunch, so don't hit Peche Merle at lunch time. If you have a cell, call Peche Merle when you leave Carcassonne (and have a feeling for your time schedule), and make a reservation. Normally, you don't need a reservation for this time of year, but check on the specific times of the tours, and make one - since you are on a tight schedule.

After Peche Merle, retrace your route back the the Freeway & head north to Soulliac. Head west towards Sarlat. When you get past a little ugly sprawl around Soulliac, the drive along the Dordogne river is lovely. The views of the Montfort Chateau from this read are majestic - unfortunatly, the sun will be in your face from this direction.

I would stay in Roque Gageac for your visit to the Dordogne. There are two hotels there (belle Etoile, and Plume d'Oie). These two places are actually restaurants with views. Dine at both of them - they're two of my favorites. Also dine in Sarlat 1 night. We like the Presidal, but a new one opened up about the time we were there last year & we didn't know about it. See Moolyn's post.

When you leave the Dordogne for your flight home from Toulouse, there are two more stops on the way to Toulouse - The first is the village built on the side of a cliff - Rocamadour, and next the underground cave of Padirac, which is still "wet". Padirac closes for lunch, so plan accordingly. Don't miss either of these. See the itinerary I e-mailed you for more details on all the places I've suggested.

If you need to stay in St Cirq the night before your Toulouse departure, swap the St Cirq/Peche Merle and the Padirac/Rocamadour visits. If you're staying in Toulouse or near the airport the last night - do them in any order you like. Remember, Toulouse will be dead on Sunday. St Cirq is a tourist village & things will be open.

Stu Dudley

>>(belle Etoile, and Plume d'Oie). These two places are actually restaurants with views. <<

Should be "restaurants with rooms" although both have great views.

Stu Dudley

>and rental rates for a car picked up in Spain are less for one in France - so the drop-off charges might be a wash.<

Stu - not sure what you mean by the above statement - are you saying that it is cheaper to pick up the car in Barcelona than it is in France? If so, then that would be true of the original itinerary as well, n'est-ce pas, i.e. I'd be faced with the same drop-off charges either way? In other words what would I be gaining with the itinerary you have so kindly :* laid out in your last reply
than the one we originally discussed? The drive over the Pyranees sounds spectacular, but it looks like that would be sacrificed in the most recent plan...help me, o great oracle!

Margot, your original post talked about Toulouse, and the Dordogne came up because posters convinced you that it would be "better" than Touloouse. You give no special reason for going there, so why not change your plan and decide that the eastern Pyrenees on both sides of the border might be worth as trip? You could do a round trip from Barcelona and then fly out of Barcelona to whatever destination you choose.

It looks to me that using Stu Plan 2, Margot doesn't get to Toulouse until noon at Thursday (at the very earliest).

But Margot could have a nice dinner in Barcelona on Wednesday night, pick up the rental car the next morning (already saving one day's costs) and make the 4 hour drive over the Pyrenees and still be on the start of her Dordogne itinerary by noon Thursday.

Any word on how much those drop-off fees are?

>>Stu - not sure what you mean by the above statement - are you saying that it is cheaper to pick up the car in Barcelona than it is in France? If so, then that would be true of the original itinerary as well, n'est-ce pas, i.e. I'd be faced with the same drop-off charges either way?<<

There are no drop-off charges if you pick it up in France & return it in France (with a very few exceptions - Toulouse is not one of the exceptions).

If you pick it up in Spain & return it in France there are drop-off charges.

Gas is less expensive in Spain than in France - but you'll have a full tank when you leave, so that doesn't matter.

Regarding freeway to Carcassonne vs. over the Pyrenees.

If you head to Foix, you will be driving in the dark for the last part - on unfamilar roads, in a different country, and after all day at a conference - unless you drive as your hubby naps. I wouldn't do that. It's 3 1/2 hrs to Foix, so if you leave at 5:30 you'll get there at 9 - in the dark. The last 2 hrs or so are mountain roads till Foix - freeway past there. You could stay in the Cerdagne region of France (near Bourg Madame) - just across the border from Spain, but then you would have a longer drive the next day to the Dordogne. Also, the nicer places to stay in the Cerdagne (Llo) are off the main road a bit - adding about 1 hr to the entire excursion to the Dordogne.

It's all freeway to Carcassonne - and I think you would enjoy Carcassonne more than Foix, but the drive to Carcassonne won't be that great. It's nice from Figueres to Le Boulou, but that's a small part of the trip. For lots of people, Carcassonne is a "must see" in southwest France - there was a thread initiated about it today. I've never been there at night, but I hear it's quite scenic with all the towers & walls lit-up.

Stu Dudley

Michael - I am pretty well sold on the Dordogne at this point, despite the fact that there are MANY areas of France that are tempting to me! I'll just have to keep finding ways to come back to France to see them! (next year's convention is in Vienna...;)) But I appreciate the point you made - my guess is that there are no wrong decisions here!!!

n'dorma, interesting idea, one to consider. The best estimate I've gotten re: rental cars for a 4 day rental from BCN and dropoff in Toulouse is $710, but not sure if that means the dropoff fee is included in that price.

Stu - am mapping out your last suggested itinerary...given the scarcity of Sunday restaurants in Toulouse, would it be possible to have an early dinner in St.Cirq our last night and still drive to Toulouse to stay there overnight in order to catch an early morning flight?

Michael - Margot & I carried on a few discussions through private e-mail before I entered this thread. I recommended that the Dordogne be the destination - not Toulouse. Toulouse was talked about because it's a big city & she can get there by train, stay overnight, & then be off for a short trip to the Dordogne - with a few interesting things to see & do on the way. The east & west side of the Pyreneese are quite scenic - we spent a total of about 10 days exploring this region in '04. However, it takes a bit of driving to see the sites and it's probably best to change hotels a few times. We stayed in Foix, Llo, Oust, and Ceret. In the Dordogne, you can stay in 1 place & see a lot of very interesting stuff in 4 days. Also, I've never been in the Pyrenees in mid Oct, but there might be a weather consideration. If it rains a lot, this might not be a good trip. I also think there is a more diverse set of things to see in the Dordogne.

Ness
Good idea, but it's a 6 1/4 hr drive from Baarcelona to the Dordogne. Also, she might not save anything on car rental - it depends on when she returns the car for her flight home. If she returns the car in Toulouse at around 10am, for example, it would be the same number of rental days if she picks it up at 5:00PM on Wed, or 8:00am on Thurs.

Also, like I stated in the post after yours, Carcassonne is a major destination for many people. It would be nice to add that to her itinerary.

Stu Dudley

>Stu - am mapping out your last suggested itinerary...given the scarcity of Sunday restaurants in Toulouse, would it be possible to have an early dinner in St.Cirq our last night and still drive to Toulouse to stay there overnight in order to catch an early morning flight?<

What are your thoughts???

Also - which maps and tourbooks do you suggest I buy for this trip?

>>have an early dinner in St.Cirq our last night and still drive to Toulouse to stay there overnight in order to catch an early morning flight?<<

Sure that would work.

However, the Michelin 1 star restaurant that was our best meal last year, is open on Sundays, and it is right next to the airport. We stayed at an airport hotel when we dined there.

L'Amphitryon is the restaurant & it's in Colomiers.

We stayed at the Grand Noble in Blagnac - perhaps 5 mins from the airport.

See www.viaMichelin.com to read about the restaurant & hotel and get driving instruction from the hotel to the restaurant. Move the arrow to "The Michelin Guides" on the main page & a window will appear. Click on "restaurants". On the next page, enter Blagnac, France in City & country & "go". Another page will appear, but just enter "go". On the next page is a map of the airport area, and below, the hotel is #3 & the restaurant is #14. You can use this site for instructions from the hotel to the restaurant. It is a little tricky to get there. If you decide to do this, e-mail me & I'll try to clarify the driving instructions. Remember, I'm leaving for 4 weeks in France on Sept 1.

Time for Kirs and dinner now.

Stu Dudley

>However, the Michelin 1 star restaurant that was our best meal last year, is open on Sundays, and it is right next to the airport. We stayed at an airport hotel when we dined there.<

I like this plan even better, especially because we'd be taking such an early flight from Toulouse!

Will now start to plot this whole thing out and you can expect to be hearing from me a lot re: hotels, restaurants, etc., not just in the Dordogne but in Paris as well! ...So I have only 16 more days to pick your brain - well, that gives me a good deadline to aim for! Thanks again!!!

Margot, Stu, sorry to interrupt again but:

$710 for a 4-day rental?????

And on top of that no dinner Wednesday night?

When does the first train leave for Toulouse Thursday morning?

Does having dinner in Paris on Wednesday night and catching an early train to the Dordogne make any sense?

It looks like for the cost of the drop-off fees, you could have champagne and caviar at the Ritz.

>>Margot, Stu, sorry to interrupt again but:

$710 for a 4-day rental?????<<

That dows sound a little high - where did you get this quote???

Stu Dudley

Actually, it was Kemwel, but I just checked again and the cost for an automatic compact is $622. I there somewhere else I should look? I had checked autoeurope and a few others and Kemwel had the best rate...

One more thought re: lowering the rental costs - what if we return the car a day early in Toulouse and take the airport shuttle back to the hotel that Stu recommended? Stu - if we did that, are there taxis that would get us from the hotel to the restaurant you recommended? Just a thought...