Baden-Baden or Rothenburg???
 

Hello friends!! I'm trying to finalize our S. Germany/Austria itinerary. We plan to arrive in Koln, pick up our car and drive to the Mosel Valley. Most likely we will stay in Cochem. From there we were going to drive to Baden-Baden and then on to Fussen. OR would you suggest driving to Rothenburg instead?? Then onto Fussen from there....
Last summer DH and I drove to Cochem and onto Baden-Baden... (we did not do the baths, so my mom and I were going to do that this year) BUT, I hear so many great things about Rothenburg. Would you skip Baden-Baden and replace it with Rothenburg? (Doing both is not an option)
Also, Cochem is not a must.. it could be replaced, but with what? Last year it struck me as one of the most beautiful towns I had ever seen. Plus, we enjoyed Berg Eltz and good white wines.... we would love to visit some sort castle and maybe a cruise along the river (Mosel or Rhine). Any other suggestions here?
We are traveling in June, if that makes a difference.
Many thanks to everyone for your help!
TXgal!

Beilstein is a little jewel. A very, very quiet little hamlet to relax in after a full day of sightseeing. We liked Hotel Haus Lipmann--both the hotel and the restaurant.

Rothenburg isn't our favorite spot--though many people do like it. It is kept very photogenic and highly tourist-friendly. It's a real mess in high season when the tour buses are there during the day. Quiets down considerably when they leave, but then the souvenir shops and other shopping venues start to close up.

I'd prefer Dinkelsbuehl on the Romantic Road; or Schwaebisch Hall on the way to the RR. Haven't been to Baden-Baden, but I'd probably prefer it over Rothenburg as well.

Others will disagree quite a lot. Chacon á son gout

It all depends on what you want to do. If you just want to relax, stroll and dine in a beautiful town (aside from the baths) rather than sightsee, then Baden-Baden is the right choice. For some nice vistas, you could take the Merkur bahn (a funicular) up to the top of one of the mountains at the edge of BB (remember, these are Black Forest mountains, not the Alps).
IF on the other hand, you want to sightsee in the traditional sense, then BB might not be your best choice. It has no "must sees" that are on the usual tourist checklists. It does have an excellent concert hall (a few hotels in BB, including the Dorint/Sofitel, Brenner's and Der Kleine Prinze "own" the first several rows in the first balcony and they hold those seats for their guests...we went to the Advent concert in December while staying at the Dorint and it was lovely...they're premium tickets that also let you enjoy a little champagne and light meals buffet during the intermission) that often features world class performances.

We probably like to sight-see a bit more than just stroll around, however, we are not into musuems. Rather, we enjoy historical sites such as castles... so do you think Rothenburg is for us?
If so, then we probably should not travel as far west as Cochem on the Moselle River... would you suggest Beilstein instead? (Coming from Koln) What sights do you favor in the area? We would love a river cruise, and a castle or two. I'm assuming we would have to forgo Berg Eltz... are there wineries in the area?
Thanks!!!

In BB, you could visit the ruins of the old castle, which are interesting, including the bizarre (IMHO) wind harp.
You can forget about visiting pretty much anything connected with the new castle as it's now in private (Saudi) hands and there's a family fight as to what to do with it. Other than that, you won't find much of your kind of sightseeing in BB. It's a resort town, not a "historical" town.

Beilstein is just as far west on the Mosel as Cochem is.

The Mosel is wall-to-wall vineyards--but we didn't visit any wineries.

Rothenburg is more of a strolling around and shopping kind and looking at the pretty buildings of place. Very pretty and photograph-worthy. As I said, not our cup of tea exactly, but millions visit every year, so it definitely appeals to a lot of people.

Passing up Rotheneburg when visiting Germany is akin to skipping Disney on your once in a lifetime visit to the U.S. Both are cultural icons and Rothenburg has the distinction of being historically significant also. Unless your visiting in July or August, I wouldn't worry too much about the buses and crowds. Try to find a room inside the city walls so that you can walk the deserted town at night or in the early morning. I like to stay at the Gasthof Butz (http://www.butz.kreiselmeier.de/). For other accomodations Bavaria Ben has a great list: http://www.bensbauernhof.com/fzfrothenburg.html. Be sure to take the oft-mentioned Nightwatchman's Tour leaving from the Marketplace square at 8:00 pm.

If you are a frequent visitor to Germany I can see skipping Rothenburg, but you really should experience it once or twice. Just as you need to see Neuschwanstein.

I love Cochem. Beautiful town and some very nice restaurants in the pedestrian zone. Unfortunately we weren't able to find cheap rooms during our recent Christmas visit. Most were closed for the season and what was available exceeded my budget of 30 Euro per person per night. We stayed closer to Trier in the tiny village of Detzem at Weingut Schmitz (http://www.wein-gaestehaus-schmitz.de/). For only 20 Euro per person per night we got huge rooms, a sumptuous breakfast and a great location in the center of vast vineyards. The Schmitz only speak German but her daughter and grandchildren work in the restaurant next door and are more than willing to help you out. Frau Schmitz sells the Weingut's own Mosel wine, most of which sells for less than 4 Euro per bottle! It's about an hour from Cochem, but only 20 minutes from Trier, a fascinating ancient Roman town. Trier will keep you busy all day with the many Roman antiquities and the "newer" Medieval churches. Check out www.trier.de.

I visited Baden-Baden once and barely remember it. I had no desire to return. It seemed very expensive and pretentious. There are many spots in Germany where you can find hot baths and spas. Trier has ruins of the old Roman baths so I assume there must be modern facilities available somewhere nearby.

Actually, I haven't gone and wouldn't go to Disneyland or Disneyworld either. Something about people wearing huge plastic mouse heads--freaks me out.

But again, millions of people do go every year.

Okay, I think y'all have helped me out a bit (okay, a lot!!!) We will still stay two nights in Cochem. From there we will drive to Rothenburg (via the Black Forest) and stay 2 nights. Fussen will be our next stop for one night, them onto Austria!
Basically, this trip is for my mom (age 55). DH and I were in Germany last summer and I just fell in love with it! So I know I'll be back. This will probably be my mom's only visit and I really want her to have the time of her life!
I'm finally starting to feel good about this itinerary! Many thanks to all!!!

Sounds like a good plan since you are planning to go to Austria. Only I would skip Fussen. There really isn't much there. If you are planning to visit Neuschwanstein, you will find many nice places to stay in a variety of price ranges closer to the Castle. BTW, the castle at Berg Eltz is one that is very interesting.

Before deciding, please take a look at Bad Wimpfen on the Neckar River. I can't recommend this place enough. Basically still undiscovered by Americans, it is like a smaller version of Rothenburg. BW was an Imperial town in midieval times and still has remnants of its old palace and fortifications. It's compact enough that you can see most everything in a day but interesting enough that you could stay several days.

We spent 3 nights in BW last year and took day trips to Dinkelsbuhl and Schwaebisch Hall. We've also been to Rothenburg many times. While I do love Rothenburg, most times it is overrun with tourists. This wasn't the case with Bad Wimpfen.

Please check out the following website in English:

www.badwimpfen.de

Also, you can do an image search on google for Bad Wimpfen and look for my husband's photos on webshots by doing a search for dkubiak.

If I were to skip Fussen, where might you suggest we overnight?
Driving from Rothenburg, we would like to stay somewhere so we could see Ludwig's castles, then onto Salzburg.

Thanks!

ROTHENBURG: You will get a better flavor for Rothenburg by spending the night. Regardles of Rufus, there is a reason the town gets crowded.

Do take the Nightwatchman's tour at 8pm from the main square. It is about 1 hour of easy walking and fun. In the summer it will still be light.

Our favorite hotels from many visits through the years:

REICHS KUCHENMEISTER: Next to St Jacobs church. Ask for a room in the old building. This also has a very nice, not too expensive, restaurant even if you do not stay there. The non-smoking area is in the back corner if you need one.

MARKUSTURM: This hotel is located not far from the town square. Very scenic location and pictured on many Rothenburg etchings. Rooms are great and the people are nice. We used the two front rooms 120/121. The windows for them are in the etchings as they overlook the front. They had been redone and were spacious.

BURG: Stayed there one time. Also not a bad choice.

Just remember: Stay within the city walls of the old town when in Rothenburg. You want to be able to park your car one time and walk the town. If you stay outside the walls for a better price you will miss some of the ambiance.

I would recommend staying in Fussen. It is very close to the castles, and has the advantage of being able to stroll around a beautiful small town at night with some nice restaurants. There are hotels right at the foot of the Neuschwanstein, but there is no "town" there, just a few hotels. Everyone has a different preference obviously, just be aware of the difference.

Interesting comparison of Rothenburg to Disney - 1 big difference, Rothenburg is real. However, when I was there, it seemed so "perfect" that I thought it must be fake! Nothing could be that well preserved.

Well, Rothenburg is sort of real. Yes, it was not built 40 years ago for the tourist trade. But it's not a "real" town anymore as practically the entire place within the old city walls consists only of businesses that cater to tourists. If the place weren't so small, this probably wouldn't be that much of a big deal for me. But it is small, and that makes a difference--to me.

But, ss I said, millions of people love it, and it is certainly photo worthy. It's not a place that appeals to us to stay overnight, but it does appeal to a heck of a lot of people.

It's your money, your time. Only you can decide what maximizes your vacation experience. We have friends who would never consider anything but a cruise for a vacation--we went on a cruise once and about died from boredom. That doesn't make their experience any less valid just because it didn't float our boat (so to speak).

Hi Everyone- I picked up this thread researching for our fall trip that includes several (not sure yet how many) days in Germany.

I am weighing whether visiting Baden-Baden is worth the trouble after Zeus' comments, which echoed some of my fears about the place. Does anyone know of another spa/hot springs type of place that we could try? We plan on taking a short trip on the Rhine, visiting Munich and Rothenburg, and will have a car.

Jayne - I feel like I'm under a little pressure here. I'm not used to anyone taking my advice, other than my wife (ocassionally). :-d

Anyway, since you'll be in the Munich area, consider spending a day/night in Bercthesgaden. It's about 90 miles SE of Munich - right on the Austrian border. Salzburg is less than a half hour away. Male members of your group might enjoy some of the ruins of Hitler's Obersalzburg and the Eagle's Nest. There are hundreds upon hundreds of quaint places to stay. There are ritzy hotels in town, reasonably priced Gasthofs and cheap Zimmer Frei (Bed and Breakfast). You can find lots of places to book online at:

http://www.berchtesgadener-land.info

If you'd rather look at a brochure which I THINK they'll still send by real mail, click on the "Info and Service" tab, then down to "Prospektanforderung".

You'll find info on the local spa at:
http://www.watzmanntherme.de/

Do me a favor, if you DO go there, let me know how it is. We always found so much to see and do in the area that we never had time to visit.

One more thing, Jayne1973, if you stay in the Rhein area, there are spa facilities in Wiesbaden. It also looks pretty cool based on the website:

http://english.wiesbaden.de/index.php

Type "spa" in the search box. Click on the second response (Aukammtal).

I'm with Rufus on Rothenburg. It was so crowded that it made me claustrophobic and anxious to leave as soon as possible. It's also a tad on the too precious side for my tastes.

However, the saving grace for Rothenburg for me was St. Jacob's church, which is just a gem, with two wonderful carved wooden altars by Tilman Reimenschneider. Absolutely worth the annoyance of the tour busses clogging the narrow streets of the town.

Baden-Baden is NOT "very expensive and pretentious." We go there several times a year on a modest budget. There are plenty of inexpensive hotels and if you shop around, you can find some of the best hotels in town at great rates. Paying 112 euros per night for a deluxe room (inc. breakfast) in a 5 star hotel with its own spa isn't breaking the bank for most people. TheThere are many inexpensive places to eat in BB as well. And in summer, there are frequent free concerts around town; the main spas themselves (Caracalla and Friedrichsbad) cost about $15 for a visit lasting a few hours. The people in BB can be quite friendly as well--we have relatives there and they are about the last people one would call pretentious.