backpacking itinerary & some questions
 

Hi, I was wondering if I could get some help regarding a trip I'm planning to (mostly) Europe. I’m not taking this trip until (hopefully) April/May next year (maybe the year after, depending on how much money I can save). It will probably be a 2 (or 2 and a bit) month backpacking trip if I can work out the logistics of it all. This is a list of places I would like to see/stay and how many days I am thinking of staying. I have made sure I’ve factored in travel time, too :)


Italy :
Rome – 6 days (so really 5 with travel?)
Venice – 5 days (will I need longer?)

Slovenia:
Ljubljana – 3 days
Bled – 3 days

France:
Nice – 5 Days
Dijon – 5 days
Paris – 5 days (or 6?)

Spain:
Madrid – 5 days
Barcelona – 6 days

Greece :
Athens – transit
Santorini - 6 days
Athens – 3 days

POSSIBLE OPTIONS?

Morocco - Marrakech
Egypt – Luxor, Cairo
Turkey?

So, the main questions I’m asking is which order should I visit each destination/country and how do I go about getting between them? (I realize I may have to book a flight if I add Egypt to this itinerary)

Also is visiting all these places in just over 2 months feasible?

My budget is will be just under $5,000 – will this be enough?

Should I add Morocco, Egypt & Turkey or see them both on a separate trip?

Any places I should drop?

Anywhere I should fly home from?

I will be staying in hostels/budget accommodation/camping where possible and I'll be flying out from Australia.

Thank you very much :)

Anywhere I should fly home from?

You failed to mention where home is.

Underneath it says I'll be flying out from Australia :)

There are a number of inexpensive airlines that might be cheaper than trains to connect some of these countries. Check cheap airline connections between the different countries at whichbudget.com.

Does your budget include flights into and out of Europe, or traveling between destinations by train or flight?

If it doesn't include any of those things I think you will have enough. You will have about $80 a day (I am assuming american dollars?) or 60 euros. I personally think you will need that much for hostel, inner city transportation, food, and entrance tickets. The countries you want to visit aren't the cheapest in Europe. Also camping in major cities isn't practical, the transportation into the city is time consuming and sometimes expensive.


Personally I would cut out one country from you list, either Spain or Greece as they are the farthest away, and see something other than the major cities in each country.

With such a wide-ranging and lengthy itinerary you obviously will be using trains a lot - and here are some great sources to help understand the European rail network and possible railpasses that may be useful to you - www.seat61.com; www.budgeteuropetravel.com; www.ricksteves.com

I know some folks on this forum may think 5 days isn't enough for Venice, but with some care in grouping sights, four or even three days would be fine in my opinion.

Is Florence of no interest? I really liked this city a lot, as I love both art museums and historic churches and there are plenty of great ones there.

I'd give as many days to Paris as you can, personally, as there's a ton to see there -- it took me two trips of almost two weeks worth to experience what I wanted to here.

Also, if you're keen to do several of the excellent day trips from Madrid, you might consider adding days here as well.

Your budget is OK (just) if you are paying separately for air to/fro Australia and trains to/from one city to another. Otherwise the intercity train fares could use a good part of your budget for the day.

This isn't my price point - but my 19 year old daughter went with some friends last summer - and spent considerably more than this - working advance reduced train fares, low cost flights etc. The did stay in modest hotels versus hostels (a requirement by the parents of one of the girls - who were paying for her trip - since they had heard too many stories about drugs and problems with drunken young men i hostels). Also - in Spain and Italy they were not about to stay in places without AC (what can I say? - here everyplace has AC from your house to your car to the subway and bus - we just can;t do without it when it's 90s and humid). But, if you're doing April/May the weather won;t be as hot.

For a backpacking, multiple countries trip, I'd check with the folks over at www.lonelyplanet.com on The Thorn Tree forum (similar format to this one).

For your budget, no you shouldn't add more destinations imho. Take your overall available money, subtract airfare, then divide by number of days. That will give you your daily allowance and help you be able to plan what is reasonable.

Thanks everyone! You've been really helpful! I'll check out those websites.


Lindy27 - At the moment my budget doesn't include airfare from Australia. Also, I wasn't planning on camping in the cities, just Greece if I were to add it to my itinerary:) Thanks for your insight!

Bachslunch - I considered Florence but in this time frame and with my idea of what I wanted my itinerary to look like I decided Rome & Venice might do, but now that I think I'll be omitting a few places I'll give it a look :)


So should I do Italy + Slovenia + France (+ another country)

And then save Spain etc for another day?

Any suggestions for the fourth country or things to see in the others?

Also if i were to do rome, paris, egypt & greece on the given budget would that be more workable?

Cheers!

If you were to choose Italy, Slovenia, and France, for a 4th country you could add Austria or Germany. Both are cheaper counties with lots to do. You could do this all by rail if you wanted to, and if so, look into railpasses to see if they can save any money. Start in Italy, work your way to Slovenia, possibly see the Alps, then Germany, and end in Paris.

If you really want to see Greece, I think you could do Egypt, Greece, and Italy on one trip. Just know that you would have to fly between countries. I also believe Egypt is best done by organized tour which can add to the cost, but I've never been there, just heard that from others.

Have you traveled before? Is this your 1st trip backpacking and going alone?

I think Italy, Slovena, France, Spain would be good for an 8-9 week trip.

I would suggestion to skip Greece, Morocco, Egypt, Turkey both because of their further away locations and more difficult level of traveling for a first-timer.

Suze - This will be my 3rd time out of the country. I've traveled interstate on my own and to Indonesia with friends, and America with family. This will be my first time backpacking alone. :) Would Italy, Slovenia, France & Greece work well? I'd love to be able o fit Santorini into my itinerary somewhere.

Sure those 4 countries sound OK to me. It's just that backpacking for 8-10 weeks alone for the first time (thanks for answering my question about your previous travel experiences) is a darn big undertaking. That's a LOT of time on the road alone. I think you can make it a little bit easier on yourself by the countries you pick (western europe being easier than many other spots).

Maybe I'm way out of touch these days but when I went with a friend back in 1980 we did 9 countries in 6-7 weeks. Yes, sometimes it felt like "if it's Tuesday this must be Belgium" but if it's your first visit to Europe and you're traveling from Australia maybe that's the fun of it. All transporation was by train at that time. It was a real thrill when we stayed in one place for 3 nites just to slow down a bit, but then it was back on the road for more adventures. We had a ball and it is still the high point of my travel memories. It all depends on you. If you're the type to spend 30 minutes studying the details of Laocoon then forget everything I said. It's great to think 'Well, I'll do those other countries on my next trip' - but who knows what the future holds? Any you know you can always change your itiniery as you go - bored with Dijon after 2 days...leave.

Yeah, I understand what you mean. It is a long time on my own but I'm a bit of a lone wolf and I know I can make friends if I feel lonely :) the experience will be worth it.

Do you think I could add Spain to that list or would that be too much again?

Should I do Greece last? Just trying to figure out what order I should do things in :)

Buns - Thanks! That's exactly how i feel about travel. I'm not a fan of guided tours and I like to discover a place on my own at my own pace.

"bored with Dijon after 2 days...leave."

Should I not book my hostels in advance if I wish to do things this way? Or is booking a hostel in advance a must if I want somewhere to sleep? Guess I could book them on the road before I get there? Can anyone who has done this tell me about their experiences?

Cheers!

Personally, I wouldn't worry about traveling alone. There are several advantages, such as setting your own pace, exploring an interesting byway, and making last minute changes without worrying about inconveniencing travel companions. I've done some long trips alone, including a wonderful 6 week jaunt through Europe.

Go alone and enjoy!

You can do it either way. The advantage of doing it in advance is you have more control over getting the best hostel in each city or getting the best price or location you want. But you can also do it online from one hostel to the next one as you go along. As long as you're flexible so if a big event has everything booked up in one place, you can move on to another.

There's entire forums and website just for hostel information and ratings. Fodor's forums are great for many things but there are not a whole lot of young backpackers in the crowd.

You could do those 4 just fine. I'd end in Greece or Paris and start in the other one. You can travel between France, Italy, and Slovenia by train. Make sure wherever you decide to end in Italy or Slovenia there is a cheap flight to Greece. If you don't mind night trains I believe there is one from Paris to Rome.

I would book hostels a few days out if you don't want to set a schedule down too far in advance. If you have a hostel you really want to stay at book them farther in advance. I personally don't like to waste time once I arrive in a city looking for lodging. If you ever want to hang out with other tourists I know sometimes people that meet in the hostel will go out to dinner or site seeing together.

Thanks guys :) I'm not big on partying (though I'm not opposed to it ;) so I figure I'll make sure I set aside some time before bed in a new place to make further hostel arrangements.

If I wanted to land in Italy first and Greece last what would be the easiest order for my itinerary to work if I wanted to fit Spain in with France & Slovenia?


Sorry I have so many questions, but you're all so helpful :)

riss, end up in Greece, because in May (at least after mid-may), you CAN swim tho it will be "brisk" and at that time you'll meet more people your own age.

About booking ahead. In my opinion, more important to PLAN ahead, and have a good cell-phone that works in Europe. NOTE: not one that's on a US phone plan because then the charge for each call will be like transAtlantic!!! U can buy a cheap one IN Europe and then buy chips for some many minutes. The planning part?? Spend some time with Guide Books (you don't have to BUY them, get 'em at the Library, you do have a library card?), and use Budgeteering ones like Lets Go Europe, and Let's Go France etc & some lonely planets, and Cooks "Greek Island Hopping" & Rough Guide. XEROX maps of all cities - and copy down a TON of cheap places to stay. Get the hostel lists off the internet. Get all the phone #s. Then, as you go along, phone a few days ahead.

Why do you want to go to Italy first? Are you a fan of backtracking? You probably would do best starting with Spain, do a couple of cities, then get el cheapo flight to Paris ... then trains down to Italy and to your various stops there. (If you DO take a nite train please read up on security, for self & possessions).

Also what is this obsession with Slovenia? Do you have ancestral roots there? It is a dear little country but not a scenic biggie... main advantage is it will be cheaper than france/italy. Main disadvantage, bad connections. U may be able to go there from Venice, via train. But u won't do well by trying to then get down to Greece via train --- Greece has just cancelled most of its rail service because the railway is almost bankrupt. Better to find a cheap Euro-air flight from Ljubjanya to Athens. Once u are in Greece you can bus anywhere on Mainland (or on Crete) and ferry to all the islands.

"Also what is this obsession with Slovenia?"

Haha, no family there and no obsession, I basically just fancy going to Lake Bled for a day or two :)

As for Italy - i felt as though I'd like to see Rome first, though I realize it may not be most convenient to start with.

Good tips about the planning ahead, I've been thinking about doing just this!

So you reckon the best way to go would be Spain, Paris, Italy, Ljubljana, Greece?

Thanks!

I RAN through Europe when I was 21 so I may be the only person that says you don't need five days in Venice or Rome, nor three in Dijon. Are you aiming for sights? Nice is great but I'd add Cannes for a day visit and if you can get to St. Tropez, I'd toss that in as well. So many places in the S. of France to see and Carcassonne is also a great stop. I very much agree on 6 days in Santorini because it's so fun and gorgeous. I took the train down the boot of Italy, hopped a boat from Brindisi to Corfu and then flew to Athens one way. I also hopped a boat from Santorini to Samos and then Samos to Kusadasi, Turkey. Turkey is wonderful. I cannot tell you how great Turkey is. And it would fit well in your budget, especially if you shave a day or two off some of the big cities you're planning on seeing. If you can be flexible, you can play it by ear and leave a day earlier than you thought. Five nights in Paris is good, there is a lot to see. What a great trip. Haven't been to Egypt but I'm told one ought to really fly to Luxor to see the ruins...might be a separate trip but hard to resist if you're already all the way over there. Have fun!

lenlu --PLEASE!!! We are just gettin her to pare down things just a little bit and you are adding Turkey AND Egypt.

If you ar suggesting all these add ons (SW france, Corfu, etc), at least give her a sequence that will retain her (odd) insistence on Slovenia.

"Haven't been to Egypt but..." OK lenlu, here's your reponse to someone who's coming to the USA and wants to see Boston, NY, Phila, Wash DC, then fly to Florida & New Orleans:

"Don't forget Charleston South Caroline, and hey! go to St. Louis nd take a riverboat down to Nw Orleans instead! And, as long as you're in the United states, how about the Grand Canyon I'm told one ought to really fly there, and then there's Yosemite if you're already all the way over there. Have fun!"

Suze, it's a rite of passage for Aussies to backpack through Europe, and distance & expense make it worthwhile for rissybaby to do an extended trip.

Good idea from travelerjan about the cellphone. Rissybaby, your Aussie mobile phone will work in Europe, as my phone did on visits to Australia. You can pick up local SIM cards from around €5 plus airtime. :-)

Heimdall~ Yes I am well aware of that. That's why way back up the thread I directed her to Lonely Planet's Thorn Tree, where the other long-distance backpackers her own age are hanging out and discussing exactly these topics.

Lonely Planet isn't what it used to be. :-(

Heimdall~ Are you talking about the website, forum, guidebooks, or all of them. Do you really think there are more 20-something backpackers posting here on Fodor's than on The Thorn Tree?

I'm talking about the Thorn Tree forum. I still like the guidebooks, but they have gone upmarket and aren't aimed at backpackers anymore. Lonely Planet is an Australian company, so I'd be surprised if rissybaby isn't already aware of it. :-)

BTW, many of the regulars on the Thorn Tree Greek forum are in their 60s or older. :-D

Fine, you've made your point Heimdall, several times. So how about helping rissybaby plan her trip here then?

Go ahead and have the last word, suze. ;-)

Whew, you guys have been busy on here.

Lenlu - I appreciate your reply. There's some good info in there and It'll help me get sorted for my next trip.

Travelerjan - I'm curious - although I added Slovenia to my itinerary I believe I mentioned in reply to you why. That and I just kept repeating it because it was in my initial itinerary. I'm a bit confused - whats so odd about wanting to see a new place? Also, thanks for your help, you settled a few worries I had about booking ahead :)

Heimdall - Yes, I've heard of lonely planet and I'll check it out again :) Regardless of how it is now there's probably still a lot of useful information there which is probably why suze mentioned it. Thanks for the cell phone info. :)

Thanks again.

suze, probably more backpackers posting on Trip Advisor or Virtual Tourist than here ... Fodors is the Forum for folks who like to read about every course of a 5 course meal. LP Thorn Tree does have 2 venues "Gap Year & Round-the-World Trips" and "Travel on a Shoestring." The first one seems heavy on logistics -- getting complicated multi-continent air tickets, visas, shots, etc. The "Shoestring" one has a lot of questinos like Rissybaby's from people under 30 THere are a lot of wise Old Hands there who are endlessly patient with kids who've never picked up a travel guide in their lives, and are tossing out impossible scenarios ... they get good advice. Rissybaby might do well to hang out on "Shoestring" awhile.

well travelerjan, that is what i said (just someone didn't agree with the suggestion).

Right you are, Suze -- I got tangled up in the back-and-forth.