Backpacking Europe beginners questions!
 

Me (23) and my partner (21) have booked a contiki tour that starts in Istanbul on the 16th of May, and finishes in Athens on the 26th of May. After this our plan was to backpack at our leisure across Europe until the 6th of August where our plane departs from London back to Australia, Melbourne where we are both from.

We went against touring all of Europe because we believed it would be hard to take in everything this beautiful place has to offer at such a fast pace. Now we find ourselves with an abundance of questions.

Our budget is 15,000 AUD so around €12,000. Contiki says to put aside between 70-100AUD aside so putting the greater side of that aside 100AUD we would have 14000AUD or 11,200€ for 73days of backpacking 153.43€ per day.

The countries we are wanting to cover are France, Spain, German, Italy, Switzerland, Croatia, Poland, UK, Ireland, Scotland, Austria, Belgium, Netherlands, Hungary and Sweden.

It's a lot to cover in a short time and with this budget, or so we are both assuming. We have spent countless hours scouring the internet trying to research ways to get around whilst there. And it's all quite daunting.

You can buy Eurail passes from Australia for $556AUS for 10 trips all inclusive. Is that a good price? Im told you pay booking fees or taxes whilst using these though and that can amount up to 50€?

Just today I did a quick search today for flights from Athens to Croatia one way and it came up with ridiculous prices around 450€. Whilst flights to Rome could be found as low as 35-40€ for the both of us.

Are these prices typical to Croatia? Is it always so expensive flying into Croatia? I did another search from Rome and it was noticeably cheaper 200€.

My number one stress and concern of the whole trip will be travel, getting to places, getting around places. Im losing sleep over it, should I be? Is it that concerning and difficult or expensive? Is this just going to be a part of the typical "backpacking experience"?

Does anyone have any advice? Any good ways to get around?

Thanks for your replies!

To be honest, you'd be better posting this on the Thorntree travel forum http://www.lonelyplanet.com/thorntree/index.jspa , run by the Lonely Planted guidebook company, rather than here.

Thorntree is used more by young backpacker types. Fodors is more for slightly older people who like to travel slower - even reading a schedule like yours would be enough to give some people on here a headache.

But pose the question better. If not you will get told off like you have been a naughty child. They can be brutal on that forum.
In the mean time some tips:
Travel less means spending less. So maybe cut down on the number of countries.
Train passes may not be good value for money as sometimes they cannot be used on certain services or you may have to reserve a seat which cost extra.
For the best information on this read through http://www.seat61.com/
For flights is it thought that http://www.skyscanner.net/ is your best option to find those bargains. However please bare in mind that low cost airlines have lower baggage allowances and may fly to destinations which are slightly way from the city which they say they fly too. Fuel is rising at an alarming rates so prices are also going up.
Also if you travel less you do not have money exchange costs to add to your budget.
Don’t forget to plan to stay within the Schengen rules

Thoughts, advice, call it what you will.

'The countries we are wanting to cover are France, Spain, German, Italy, Switzerland, Croatia, Poland, UK, Ireland, Scotland, Austria, Belgium, Netherlands, Hungary and Sweden.' - You may want to, but some countries have to go. This is a foolishly small number of days per country (and there is no indication what you want to see in these countries). Have you got some sort of check list you must complete? Do you not want to enjoy this? I cannot tell whether you are recognising this with your 'stress'.

The more you move the bigger the hole in your budget. Never mind the foreseen cost of a flight, train or bus journey, there will be bus or taxi fares to accommodation in unfamiliar surroundings from the airport or stations and time expended on this (each movement will cost you not less than one half to a full day of sightseeing time).

With not less than €50 per person per day in western Europe you will survive food, accommodation and a site or museum or two wise, but there will be little left to spend on 'entertainment'. I note your budget is greater, but travel movement will eat up the balance.

There is little likelihood any rail pass is value these days if planning ahead. Only you can do the maths. comparison of rail pass against purchase from the relevant train operators, at sometimes discounted prices - this is a huge resource for train travel - http://www.seat61.com/ and do not be told how a rail pass works, read the terms and conditions yourself.

This should help for cheap flights - http://www.whichbudget.com/

I draw your attention to your 'It's a lot to cover in a short time and with this budget' - YES, look at a map.

The immediately above at the same time as ribeirasacra.

Agree if you only have ten days then you need to cut back on number of countries otherwise you will be travelling most days.Maybe three countries? Depends a bit what countries/places/cities are your priorities

You have 71 days after your tour before you leave for home and want to travel leisurely through 15 countries. That's less than 5 days per country.

I wish schools today would teach basic math. It can't be done.

Even if you never sleep you cannot cover a country in 5 days (except perhaps Andorra, San Marino, or Lichtenstein which are not on your list).

Greece is in the Schengen agreement and I am not sure where your tour with Contiki goes, but keep in mind you can only stay in the Schengen zone for 90 days out of a rolling 180.

You will need to be mindful of calculating your days in Schengen and make sure if you are going to be in Europe for more than 90 days that you include some time in non-Schengen countries (like the UK) to keep under the limit.

My top piece of advice is to think of <i>locations</i>, not countries. Do you just want to see Paris in France? Or do you want to visit Paris, Provence, Nice, Normandy...? The answer would make a huge difference time-wise. Likewise with many of the countries on your list. If "Italy" = Rome to you, you could spend five days or so there, but if "Italy" means Rome, Florence, Venice and Cinque Terre, you'll need more like two weeks.

You can buy Eurail passes from Australia for $556AUS for 10 trips all inclusive. Is that a good price? Im told you pay booking fees or taxes whilst using these though and that can amount up to 50€?>

50 euros is wrong - in most countries with a Eurailpass you can simply show up and hop on any train anytime - fully flexible and fully flexible tickets can cost a fortune - these countries include Belgium, Netherlands, Germany, Switzerland, Austria, Hungary, Czech Republic, all of Scandinavia and Eastern Europe - it is only in Italy, France and Spain basically where with a pass you must have a seat reservation before boarding - in France these cost 3 euros - in Italy and Spain 10 euros - so 50 euros is way way too much - but there is one train - the Thalys train between Paris and Brussels and Amsterdam that does charge railpass holders about 25-30 euros or so - but that is the only such train I know of in Europe and you can take alternate routes to avoid the Thalys.

So no most trains you just hop on - a real value of a pass and in other countries at most 10 euros.

Now the 50 euros may come from overnight trains and on those your railpass pays for the train fare but not the optional sleeping berths which even then do not usually run 50 euros but typically 20-25 euros - railpass covers only the train fare and not the sleeping costs - you still save on a night in a hostel or hotel.

You are I hope looking at the Eurail Youthpass - a flexipass for 10 days on unlimited travel over a 2-month period - when the 2-month period ends you will be perhaps in Britain where the Eurailpass is not valid. (And if you have a Eurailpass then you qualify for 50% off the price of a BritRail pass so keep that option in mind if traveling say to Scotland or much around the UK.

anyways for a wide-ranging trip and with a youthpass IMO it is a no-brainer to buy some kind of Eurail Youthpass - here are some great sites for learning about passes and European rail travel in general - www.budgeteuropetravel.com; www.ricksteves.com and www.seat61.com. Check STA Travel for on site processing of railpasses Down Under and please tie your kangaroo down, mate! And put another shrimp on the barbie for me!

I've removed a bunch of countries for you to save you travel, note that as we write Scotland is in the UK. I've also put some sequence to them

Croatia, Italy, Austria, Hungary, Germany, Netherlands, Belgium, France, Ireland, Scotland, England

That makes a more logical hitching/train route and saves the colder bits to the end when it will be warmer when you get there.

Aaron,

There are some great books for first time budget Europe travelers. Rick Steves "Europe through the Back Door", Lonely Planet "Europe on a Shoestring", Rough Guide "First Time Europe". They can provide you lots of information about how to organize the practicalities of moving, sleeping, eating, seeing, etc. And some sample interaries for a trip like yours.

But I would also suggest that you set some priorities, plan a general outline of itinerary maybe with some "anchor" cities you know you will go to, but also allow in your schedule unstructured time for exploration and changes along the way.

The priorities might be someting like "have to climb the Eifel Tower", "have to go to a wine festival" or "have to see where Picasso painted".

Along your trip there will also be lots of resources you can take advantage of such as tourist information centers (every town has one), other travelers (you might get your best ideas from the other people you meet on your first segment which is that tour), the internet (available at any cyber cafe or on your own device if you take one), etc.

"the Thalys train between Paris and Brussels and Amsterdam that does charge railpass holders about 25-30 euros or so - but that is the only such train I know of in Europe and you can take alternate routes to avoid the Thalys"

This is not true, most TGVs require reservation, and the cost is not just € 3. It is not just the cost which is the problem in using TGVs, the difficulty in getting a reservation if you have a pass is a concern. See the following thread in TripAdvisor:
http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic...in_Travel.html

And read 'The Man in Seat61' post in that thread (#10)
"According to the Rail Europe trade fare sheets, the passholder surcharge for these TGVs is now a whopping £51, about 58 euros. I still think this is a misprint, but they claim it's correct! My attempt to check it using the onine passholder reservation facility at raileurope.co.uk is how I know that site won't reserve this particular train!"

Just be aware of the limitations of the Eurail pass, especially for cross border trains
http://www.eurail.com/planning/train...servation-fees

As you're on a budget remember that in most countries it is cheaper when you move away from the capital cities. In the UK northern England or the Midlands are half the price of London for even basic items such as food, accommodation etc. And believe it or not there's lots to see and do there as well.

The advice was so good that Wombat and I said it twice ;-)

"According to the Rail Europe trade fare sheets, the passholder surcharge for these TGVs is now a whopping £51, about 58 euros. I>

Man 61 just posted that passholders can get 6 euro seats on a limited quanitity but that now if those are exhausted then for 18 euros then can get on any TGV not already sold out.

This is a change that I did not know about when posted above. But the 50 euro stuff is just not true - but that is what sticks in folks' minds.

I was referring to the cross border trains in my post, and not domestic TGVs (link to TripAdvisor), and the 50 Euro cost remains true in that case, as per this link:
http://www.seat61.com/Railpass-and-E...m#reservations or pay supplements with a railpass

"Paris-Turin-Milan: Reservation compulsory, the passholder fare is now a massive and ridiculous £51 (55 euros) in 2nd class, £69 (75 euros) in 1st class. Passholder places are quota-controlled. It will often cheaper to put your pass in the waste paper bin and buy a normal ticket, as these start at just 25 euros 2nd class, 35 euros in 1st class including reservation if you pre-book at www.tgv-europe.com"

I think the days for a Eurail pass being a good deal are over-too expensive w/many restrictions and extra charges.In many cases, it would be cheaper to fly!

And here is also confirmation from Rick Steve

"The "reservation fee" for Paris-Lyon-Torino-Milan day trains has increased to $80 in 2nd class or $109 in 1st when using a Eurail pass that includes France, limited places available, and is not sold online. Daytime connections via Switzerland (e.g., transfering in Basel, Geneve, or Zürich) may now be the more economical choice for Eurail pass travelers"

http://www.ricksteves.com/rail/select.htm

I will not comment on where you are trying to go in how long (IMHO crazy but it's your decision) or your budget (IMHO not enough to keep yuo fed and moving around). I will point out that you shuold have with you - even if for emergency use only, at least one credit card and one ATM card linked to a checking account with a substantial sum in it. So - if there are any problems you will have a back-up plan. Even if these are extras on your parents cards and you promise not to use them without asking - have them.

Last summer my 19 year old daughter and 2 friends spent 5 weeks in europe. Near the end of their trip they encountered a couple of american girls who had run out of money and had 4 or 5 days left before their plane home - and no CC or ATM. MyDD and her friends lent them the money for a hostel and let them use a cell phone to contact the parents of one of the girls - who somehow got them money to live on. The girls had underestimated the cost of lodging and food (they were traveling without reservations)- and just not spent very wisely.