Backpacking Europe
 

Hi, I am planning a trip to Europe with a few friends after we graduate from HS this June. It will be close to 30 days and we will using backpacks the entire way, no other luggage. We would be starting in Madrid, fly to Paris, then the train to Brussels, then to Amsterdam, then somewhere in Germany and Switzerland, and then to Florence and Rome. Any suggestions for where to stay in Switzerland and Germany? or Austria? Also, any suggestions about changes to our route? I Would love any input on different countries or cities to visit. We would most likely be staying in hostels and thinking carefully about our expenses, so any cheaper cities would be nice. We won’t be spending a ton of time in the more expensive cities, instead going to smaller towns nearby. Any advice would be appreciated!

I think you may be trying to cover too much ground.

One thing you might want to consider is that the more locations you have and the fewer day trips you do, you actually save money. There are a lot of student discounts though, such as a rail pass.

Route depends on money. What the cheapest connections are. What’s your departure city? Why are you starting Madrid?

Germany and Spain are less expensive than other places. Switzerland is especially expensive. Italy is relatively cheap food wise, but it takes some effort in terms of research if you want something other than pizza.

You’re missing Venice. I wouldn’t skip that since you’re going to Florence and Rome anyway. And Florence was not my favorite city. You may want to add Naples if you have any interest in Pompeii. It would be a long day trip otherwise.

In Nuremberg, there is a hostel in the stables of the castle. It’s awesome. Google best hostels of Europe or something along those lines- google Hoscars, the hostel awards every year. I usually pick my destinations partly on unique hostels. I think there’s another castle hostel in Bacharach. There are a lot of amazing things to see in Germany.

Re: luggage. Unless backpacks are truly your preference, I’d do a small wheeled carry on. Make sure it fits European carrier requirements. It makes it more difficult to overpack, and wheeled suitcases are actually easier to maneuver in trains and on transit.

What are your actual interests? Budget? It’s difficult to suggest places without knowing more about you or your friends.


I think all of you really need to buy some guidebooks. Maybe one guidebook per country, and have each person pick out stuff they really, really want to see. Cut countries that are inconvenient or too expensive or don’t really call to you. Look up atlas obscura, watch some rick Steves, think about the places you learned about in school that you really want to see in person. Then map it out, with travel times included. And come back and give us a better idea of what you want the trip to look like.

What luggage you take is largely irrelevant. Backpacks are easier on stairs, wheeled luggage is easier everywhere else. I get the same amount of "stuff" in the 22 inch two-wheeler I use now as I did in a backpack.

If this is your first trip to Europe I recommend reading "The Rough Guide to First Time Europe" and Rick Steves' "Europe Through the Back Door". The latter has excellent advice on planning an itinerary. Do remember that it takes two nights in a place to get one full day, and that traveling between places always takes longer than you expect. (I once had a two hour flight from London to Nice consume eight hours actual travel time.)

You have the right idea about flying into one city and out of another, but you are trying to cover too much ground in between. If you are on a budget the first place to cut is Switzerland which would bust a much more generous budget.

For train info see seat61.com. I have found the Thomas Cook Rail Map of Europe useful for planning. For cheap flights in Europe see skyscanner.com, also Easyjet and Ryranair.

Thanks for the replies! I kinda had the feeling to we were stuffing to much into the trip but there’s just so much to see:). We don’t really have a reason for starting in Madrid, other than we were trying to go from west to east. Out of these cities or countries, which would be the recommended starting point? We agreed our budget, not including airfare, would be around $3500-4000 for each person.

Starting point and ending points largely depend on flights. It's a lot more expensive for me to fly in or out of Italy or Spain, for example- I can save a lot of money on flights into or out of Germany and the UK or Sweden. (I mean, I know the last two are not on your list. Just using that as an example)

But speaking of the UK- I'd possibly consider adding London to your itinerary. It's an expensive city in many ways, but it has several free, and glorious museums.

darn. same person as marvelousmouse, I apparently just never logged out of the test account I had made during the posting issues. sorry!

that's probably about $1000 in lodging-could be less but to be on the safe side, and so 2500-3000 in food/transportation/entertainment. So it's important to get your itinerary figured out to see if it will be sufficient. It would not be for me, but I tend to spend a lot of money on activities and food.

When you book hostels, take into account location and how that might translate into money spent on transit. I stayed in a very central hostel in Paris for a few days and then one in a much less central area because I wanted different amenities. My hostel price decreased by a few euros, but the amount I spent on metro actually doubled. So sometimes what looks like a better deal really isn't.

and also, for that long of a trip, you'll want to do laundry, so book hostels with laundry strategically. You can wash stuff in the sink, but I find that more of a hassle than it's worth at a hostel, because you may not have space to dry it.

also, either pack a quick dry towel, or know how much a towel will cost at each hostel. Most hostels charge you for towels and locks, a few have neither.

Thanks! I’ll look into seeing London.

You mention that you want to avoid expensive cities and want to stay in smaller towns, but you mention only big, expensive cities.

"We would be starting in Madrid, fly to Paris, then the train to Brussels, then to Amsterdam, then somewhere in Germany and Switzerland, and then to Florence and Rome."

This is quite a bit of travel and travel expense for 30 days.

"We don’t really have a reason for starting in Madrid, other than we were trying to go from west to east. Out of these cities or countries, which would be the recommended starting point?"

I'd be tempted to fly into Paris and drop Madrid (time-consuming, cuts out a major travel leg.)

As bigtyke says, go to some smaller places too.

Paris, Rome and Florence won't come cheaply. A visit to Switzerland should be very short (extra-pricey.) Skeleton itinerary suggestion:

Paris (5)
Brussels (2)
Antwerp (2)
Amsterdam (4)
Germany (6) (Consider Cologne, Trier, Middle Rhine towns and castles, Mainz, Black Forest, Stuttgart, Freiburg... All are on the way south to Switzerland from A'dam.)
Switzerland (3) (Bernese Oberland region)
Florence (3)
Rome (5)

Note that a few friends traveling within Germany can do so really cheaply.
https://www.bahn.com/en/view/offers/...al/index.shtml

Germany has nearly 500 official DJH hostels:
http://www.jugendherberge.de/en/youth-hostels

Also... Middle Rhine Valley towns and castles:
http://www.loreley-info.com/eng/rhei...ity-cities.php

http://www.loreley-info.com/eng/rhein-rhine/castles.php

Trier: http://www.trier-info.de/english/sights-in-trier

Airfare is the biggest single expense so getting that down can save hundreds. Do you live somewhere that you can fly AerLingus, Iceland Air or Norwegian? Those three have the cheapest flights from the US (assuming that's where you are from?). I often find very cheap flights to London so you could add just a couple days (everyone will say you need more but two or three is better than none) to London then train to Amsterdam, Belgium, Germany, France. Then either Italy or Spain but to do both you'd need to fly from one to the other. Then fly home from the last.

That is a lot to do in one month but if your goal is to see an overview of a lot of Europe it's not a crazy itinerary just as long as you know you are only getting a brief 'taste'.

Especially in the Netherlands and Belgium don't stay in Amsterdam or Brussels but rather Haarlem or Antwerpt, etc. Easily commute to the cities for day trips but the smaller towns are much cheaper and everything is so close in those countries.

Look at train passes but don't automatically assume they will be cheaper than point to point tickets. You can figure out what it will cost by going to the various country train websites and check routes. Lots of times you can save a lot by taking slower, regional trains rather than the more expensive intercity trains. Will take longer but cost less. Will take some time and research but you can definitely know what your train costs will be ahead of time.

How many of you are going? Don't automatically assume that hostels are cheaper than sharing a room in a small, inexpensive hotel. On booking.com you can filter by price and you can often find triples or quad rooms. I agree with the person who said don't try to 'save' money by booking a place outside of the city center. You'll eat up money on commuting in. It all depends, everyplace is different but keep that in mind.

More tools:

www.seat61.com the master of rail travel everywhere.

www.skyscanner.com is good for one-way flights on no-frills European airlines.

One essential rule-of-thumb: The earlier you buy air tickets, and fares on long-distance trains, the cheaper the price. Like, maybe two-thirds cheaper. This rule pins you down to a schedule while many backpackers think they can travel on whims and last-minute suggestions. Sorry; freedom comes at a price (you will learn this about many things in life.)

If you must start in Madrid, consider taking the fast train to Paris. At something over five hours, compared to an hour flight, it seems to be a disadvantage (and no cheaper) but the train is comfortable, more interesting, and it connects two city centres, avoid the time and costs of getting two and from airports and all the time eaten up by airline security measures. PS: I agree that backpacks are outdated for everything except climbing stairs, and you will want a small bag, like a day pack, to carry on planes.

Madrid isn't an expensive city, and I don't think Paris is, either. I suppose compared to some real small town, sure, but in general, they aren't as expensive as some big cities in the US nor other big cities in Europe. I haven't been to Amsterdam in a long time, so can't comment on its relative expense. Switzerland is a little more, but I haven't found it as dire as people claim it to be in cost. Germany isn't bad.

So I don't think the itinerary is that bad.

The train to Paris from Madrid definitely does not take only 5 hours. It takes 10-20 hours, depending on time and if overnight or not. I think the train is about 6.5 hrs from Barcelona alone, and that's a couple hours from Madrid. I would never do that myself, I agree with flying, which will be cheaper anyway and MAdrid is an easy airport to get to fairly quickly. There are numerous cheap airlines flying that route, Transavia, Easyjet, etc and you can fly for only about 50 euro in 2 hours.

You are under 26 so can get a Eurail Youthpass that lets you chose your trains to take once there - in many countries can still hop on any train anytime and you will be taking a lot of trains -compare vs discounted tickets (which sold in limited numbers must be booked in stone months in advance to guarantee) that are typically non-changeable non-refunded - a railpass lets you freely change your plans once there. anyway for lots on trains and passes check www.seat61.com; www.budgeteuropetravel.com and www.ricksteve.com.

And use night trains when possible - get a couchette berth and cover large swaths of ground as you sleep -

I'd get a copy of Let's Go Europe as it is the best guide IMO about hostels and backpacking on the cheap.

There are very few night trains remaining. That is because for longer distances cheap flights make more sense, so there are not enough passengers.

Read this before deciding to buy a pass:
https://www.seat61.com/Railpass-and-...pass-guide.htm

$4,000 for thirty days is $133/day or 112 EUR. That is not a terrible budget, especially as you can share room costs. Go here:

https://www.lonelyplanet.com/places

Click on Europe, then on each country you want to visit, then Survival Guide, then Money and Costs.

Thank you guys for all your suggestions! I’m going to have to look into a lot of this stuff and talk to my friends. Does anyone have any suggestions on some good day trips( or overnight) to see out of these cities?

Yes, but first you need to pick your cities. I suggest starting in the south and working north - things will get warm in the south... You all need to spend some quality time with glossy guidebooks picking what you want to see - but read those two I listed as well to get a handle on HOW to plan and travel.

Also, see how many days you actually have in those cities before even considering day trips. In Europe, attractions are rather dense. I didn’t get to many of my day trips, because my list of stuff to see in Rome and Paris got so long that day trips did not make much sense.

The efficacy of a Eurail Youthpass depends on whether you want to have flexibility to chose what trains to take once there - if so vs fully flexible full fare tickets a pass for your plans could be good.

But if not a series of discounted tickets could well be better and is for most as they are not going all over Europe as yous are and that is fine too for a first trip.

And with the pass you still have to pay for mandated seat reservation fees of $10-15 for fast trains in Italy and Spain - less in France but much more on Thalys trains Paris-Brussels so those add up and you are taking several of those. But again the key is if you wish flexibility to chose what trains to take once there or have all your trains booked in stone weeks before to get the discounted tickets - most folks are happy with that.

The old benefit of a railpass was that you could hop any train anytime but now with mandatory seat reservations in more and more countries that is out. And again you are taking many trains requiring them. But still if flexibility is desired then a pass probably in your case would be cost-effective it seems.

Now Switzerland is a place where a Swiss Travel Pass could be a good deal depending on what you will be doing - many folks here have said Swiss Passes were a good deal as they cover not only trains but lake boats, postal buses, city transports and give free entry to nearly 500 museums and sights. for lots on Swiss trains check www.sbb.ch and www.swisstravelsystem.com.

Rather than thinking East to West, do some reading and decide what cities actually interest you the most. Then put together the itinerary.

Without knowing if any of you have intense interests in some particular art or sport or music, etc., no one can have specific advice. There are, however, some cities that seem to me to have a younger vibe or more universal appeal than others. Examples: I prefer Madrid, but my students preferred Barcelona. They gave a slight edge to London over Paris. They all loved Rome. Everything you see will be of some interest, and you will likely return many times. Still, the trip will be more meaningful if you see things that most interest you at this time in your lives.

Small towns are great! It is fine to see some and to stay in them. However, do not stay in small towns or the country and plan on commuting into cities. That just wastes time and money.

Find some inexpensive local things to do. Germany, for example, has great public pools. Spend an afternoon at one. Many places have boats you can rent to go out on a lake. If there are any festivals going on, plan your itinerary to include some.

"Does anyone have any suggestions on some good day trips(or overnight) to see out of these cities?"

Guidebooks are good for this purpose... you guys know best what might interest you.

But here are a few typical/quick/easy day trips:

From A'dam: Zaanse Schans - https://www.dezaanseschans.nl/en/

From Cologne: Remagen and its WW II museum -
http://www.bruecke-remagen.de/index_en.htm

http://www.stadt-remagen.de/Tourismu...Stadtrundgang/

More:

From Stuttgart: Esslingen; Ludwigsburg Palace:

http://www.schloss-ludwigsburg.de/en/home/

Black Forest: Perfect place for a group on a budget that wants to do outings. DEFINITELY stay in a small town here. Any hotel, in or hostel in small towns like Gengenbach will give you a free train pass for the whole group (KONUS card) which you cannot get in cities like Freiburg or Baden-Baden.

Gengenbach: http://www.stadthotel-gengenbach.de/...innenstadt.jpg

Day trip to the cities of Freiburg or Basel Switzerland for free. Ride the Black Forest railway to Triberg and other towns for free:

https://www.black-forest-travel.com/...t-railway.html

Day trip to Gutach and the Black Forest open-air museum for free:

http://www.bensbauernhof.com/gutachimschwarzwald.html

KONUS card information:
http://www.camping-muenstertal.de/en/konus-flyer.pdf

(Strasbourg FR is also a good day trip from Gengenbach; the KONUS card gets you to the French border, then it's a few Euros more to Strasbourg.)

Thanks for all the help! I’m going to go buy some guide books and get back to you guys when we’ve for sure decided on our route.

Resist temptation to try to see all of Europe in 30 days and pick destinations that are fairly close together.

I used to travel always with a backpack, but I've switched to a small wheeled suitcase. Here are the things I hate about backpacks:

* You have to take them off when you sit down and put them back on when you stand up.

* In crowded places, you risk bopping people in the face if you turn even slightly. People will look daggers at you, or maybe even call you names in a language you don't understand, especially if there are several of you, unless you take the backpacks off and hold them below your knees.

* You usually have to take everything out to find something.

* Clothing gets more wrinkled in a backpack.

My favorite luggage now is a small (very small) wheeled bag, with an even smaller duffel or daypack piggybacked on top of it.

Three or four people traveling together often spend less by sharing a room in a budget hotel rather than paying for beds in a hostel. A hotel room also offers more privacy, and is more likely to have a private bathroom. Triple and quad rooms are fairly easy to find.

Hostels do have their own advantages. Especially for people traveling alone, they're a great way to meet people, or find someone to share an excursion with. They often have a shared kitchen and laundry facilities. They often have bulletin boards advertising concerts or other activities.

Yes but I highly encourage staying in hostels and more client-oriented youth hotels that also have private rooms (but communal showers, WC- like they will have in college).

Reason - hotels are isolating and in hostels you meet folks from all over the world your age - may go out with them - even travel with them - guys and gals too!

sorry did not read bvlenci's 2nd paragraph in post above mine - said much of what I said. Sorry for my negligence. Again Let's Go Europe is the guidebook to have along for all the dope on hostels and youth hotels and cheap accommodations.

Get FIRM commitments from your friends that they are ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY going to take the trip.

Nothing wrong with going alone however as I did at that age and found youth hostels and trains great places to meet others my age and traveled with off and on.

If they don't come send them postcards.

I've been using backpacks for 25 years, and never once hit anyone in the face by turning wildly or even slightly - and oh how I have tried! Locals are quicker than you think. However, TWICE I have been tripped up in an airport or train station by an inconsiderate person suddenly cutting across my path and dragging their wheeled suitcase behind them. A person's overall footprint while walking is larger with a wheeled suitcase than with a similar-sized backpack.

I've never had to take everything out to find something. Plan ahead and put the go-to items in the easy to reach pouches on the outside. A wheelie wouldn't solve that problem regardless.

Yes, I have to remove my backpack to sit. It's a small price to pay to walk with my luggage with both hands free.

I've never noticed clothing getting more wrinkled in a backpack than a regular suitcase, but my clothes consist mostly of underwear, socks, and t-shirts. Some clothing items will need a good ironing anyway once I get to my room. A wheelie would not change that.

My soft-sided backpack is much easier to fit into an overhead compartment than any wheelie could ever hope to be. The soft-sides let it form-fit to an extent into whatever space might be left up there - which is very considerate of me because it leaves more room for hard-sided cases like wheelies. You're welcome.

With a backpack I don't need to fret about cobblestone streets in Paris, or a wheel breaking off thereby transforming my wheelie suitcase into a cinder block.

Thus, backpack > wheelie, QED. Still, backpacks aren't for everyone. If I had a bad back or a bum shoulder then I would switch to a wheelie.

I also use a small backpack. I rarely put both arms through it unless I will be walking a long distance.

You already got some great suggestions. Just a few additions:

Switzerland: Fully agree that you should drop this, unless any of you have a strong wish to go there

Germany: Everyone always seems to love Berlin. It also tends to be a bit cheaper than other German cities. A day trip might be Potsdam.

Spain: Agree that for younger people, Barcelona tends to have more appeal than Madrid. It's quite difficult to find accommodation in Barcelona - so if you want a nice hostel, you should definitely plan this in advance and not think that you can just wander around finding a place.

Belgium: Are you sure it's Brussels you wish to see? Bruges and Ghent might be much more interesting, easily reached by train from Brussels. Both quite small - Bruges is a bit prettier I think, but also more overrun by tourists. Ghent is also very pretty and has a more studenty feel to it. Watch the movie "In Bruges" to get an idea what to expect

Amsterdam: Great idea, you should definitely go there. There also tend to be good international flight options from Amsterdam, so this might be a good place for the beginning or end of the trip. Also here I think it's quite difficult to find accommodation, this should be planned in advance.

London: As someone said, this also seems to have good international flight options. Might be a nice place for the first few days to get over the jetlag, as it'll all be in English and therefore pretty straightforward.

Prague: You didn't add any places in the East, which tend to be cheaper. Maybe add Prague?

Italy: This should be on everyone's Europe itinerary I think. Not sure about which cities though. I personally loved Venice. Haven't been to Rome yet but people seem to like it. Florence is nice, but it's a lot about art. After a few days in Florence I went to Bologna, which I preferred even though it doesn't have the main sights as Florence - it just had a nicer vibe, with lots of students hanging around. So as others have said, think about what you want to do - if you're into art, Florence is great. If not, it's still nice, but might not be worth a complicated de-tour.

While I agree that it's better to not put too much into a travel itinerary, I also think that this is something that you learn as you travel. So if in your first trip to Europe you want to see lots of different countries, plan sensibly and take the travel time into consideration, but still do as you wish (partly ignoring the advice of everyone with decades more experience - which might lead to you being tired and exhausted, but means you're not going home wishing that you'd stuck to your original plan).
e.g. in Paris, I think you should have 4 full days. BUT, if you can't manage this, if you only have one day and spend this day wandering around the Montmartre area, discovering some small alleyways and drinking wine in a bistro, I think you'll be very happy with your time in Paris.
If you assume 5 days per city (time spent there will be lower due to travel time), this means you can cover around 6 destinations in 30 days.

Enjoy your planning, I'm sure it'll be a great trip.

Th main thing about sharing rooms is that I’ve found people drop out of trips for all kinds of reasons, sometimes at the last moment. And then that shared room is a problem for the rest. Even if you aren’t terribly budget conscious, there’s a good chance one of your travelling companions are and would be very upset if they found out they had to pay even $5-10 more.

This situation has happened a few times to me. So now if my friends want to go somewhere, I steer them towards hostels. That way, if someone cancels, it doesn’t affect others. This is less of an issue now that we’re older- but in college this was a big problem.

I’ve dragged my bag everywhere and haven’t had a wheel break yet...and have been hit by someone’s backpack on the bus. I don’t think my carry on is bulkier than a backpack. Fits almost everywhere overhead.

Maybe (just maybe) you don't realize when its happened. I've been hit by packs more than a few times on the Metro, the Tube and in airplane aisles. Not all the time because I am ALWAYS on alert for backpacks at my head level. I'm 5' tall and once you've been clocked in the head a few times you learn to be vigilant. Planes are actually worse than the Tube if you are sitting in an aisle seat. People must forget how narrow the aisle is because they will turn to check the seat numbers and stick their backpack right in your face. But again you need to decide yourself is a backpack or rollaboard is better for you.

Heavier backpacks are more unwieldy to manouver thru crowds or train cars and to lift into overhead luggage racks. I used backpacks for years until backpack with wheels can out - the best of both worlds and never would go without something that I can wheel around - often easily walking miles with rolling backs.

Worst case I've seen of too heavy backpacks - young 20s type in Nice train station when trying to get backpack on she fell over backwards! If really light backpacks can be fine but with wheels weight is no real problem.