Back from France & Belgium, With a Few Thoughts & Tips about Train Travel and Places to Go
Jul 25th, 2004, 09:44 AM
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Back from France & Belgium, With a Few Thoughts & Tips about Train Travel and Places to Go
On July 5 my husband and I returned from two fabulous weeks in Belgium and France, with one day trip to the Hague. We went to Brussels because we got in on that terrific weekend Alitalia sale back in February, and so planned a trip around landing in Brussels rather than Paris. We loved Alitalia - great food and wonderful, upbeat staff. We had the Eurail 3-country pass (Benelux, France, & Germany) for two people, after plugging in our itinerary and learning it was worth getting. It was great travelling everywhere by train - very comfortable, pleasant, and stress-free. One mistake was to get the seat reservation for our first train from Railpass before we left - it was so expensive, with the postage and supplement. In fact, when I bought the other reservations over there, I was shocked at how cheap they were. I really feel it isn't necessary to buy them before leaving your home country.
Anyway, some highlights were: visiting lovely Bruges, and retracing some of the places my parents were in 1938; in La Rochelle, climbing the medieval towers, walking around town, and taking the bus out to the Island, Ile da Re and spending the afteroon there; going to see the Vermeers in the Hague. I had been to Paris several times, but my husband hadn't been, so we did a mixture of different things along with tourist spots. For example, in the Louvre we just went to one wing and saw the Islamic Arts - it was fantastic. We went to the Mosque, which was very peaceful and has a tea room connected to it where you can get wonderful mint tea.
I had saved an article from the NY Times about hidden gardens in Paris, and we set out to find them based on the article. That was very special - we found gardens and parks that normally you might miss if you weren't looking. One is a large vegetable garden which is in the walls of a convent on the left bank.
To save money and be healthy, we ate at ethnic restaurants and vegetarian restaurants a lot. If anyone wants the names of any of them, let me know, or of the places where we stayed.
One other point - we were going to go to Giverny to see Monet's gardens and home but had been doing a lot of metro travelling, so we decided to just stay in Paris and have a "down day" sitting in cafes and walking along the river. That was one of our best days! Actually, they were all great.
I learned a lot from other Fodorites in planning this trip. Thanks!
Anyway, some highlights were: visiting lovely Bruges, and retracing some of the places my parents were in 1938; in La Rochelle, climbing the medieval towers, walking around town, and taking the bus out to the Island, Ile da Re and spending the afteroon there; going to see the Vermeers in the Hague. I had been to Paris several times, but my husband hadn't been, so we did a mixture of different things along with tourist spots. For example, in the Louvre we just went to one wing and saw the Islamic Arts - it was fantastic. We went to the Mosque, which was very peaceful and has a tea room connected to it where you can get wonderful mint tea.
I had saved an article from the NY Times about hidden gardens in Paris, and we set out to find them based on the article. That was very special - we found gardens and parks that normally you might miss if you weren't looking. One is a large vegetable garden which is in the walls of a convent on the left bank.
To save money and be healthy, we ate at ethnic restaurants and vegetarian restaurants a lot. If anyone wants the names of any of them, let me know, or of the places where we stayed.
One other point - we were going to go to Giverny to see Monet's gardens and home but had been doing a lot of metro travelling, so we decided to just stay in Paris and have a "down day" sitting in cafes and walking along the river. That was one of our best days! Actually, they were all great.
I learned a lot from other Fodorites in planning this trip. Thanks!
Jul 26th, 2004, 11:54 AM
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Hi,
I just read your post and have a question for you. My husband and I are going to Paris for the first time in mid August and are still debating about whether or not to take a day trip to Belgium. The fare I found on the Rail Europe website is around $34/pp each way, plus $7 supplement and $15 shipping. Would we be able to purchase our tickets once we get to Paris for a cheaper price? I wasn't sure if we had to purchase these tickets before we left or if we could wait and get them there. Thanks!
I just read your post and have a question for you. My husband and I are going to Paris for the first time in mid August and are still debating about whether or not to take a day trip to Belgium. The fare I found on the Rail Europe website is around $34/pp each way, plus $7 supplement and $15 shipping. Would we be able to purchase our tickets once we get to Paris for a cheaper price? I wasn't sure if we had to purchase these tickets before we left or if we could wait and get them there. Thanks!
Jul 26th, 2004, 04:08 PM
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Beth, you can wait until you get there, and you won't have to pay the postage or, probably, the supplement (unless the supplement is the seat reservation). The fare might be lower too. In any case, I would suggest waiting until you get there. It's easy to buy tickets at the train station. You probably should go a few days or so earlier to buy them rather than waiting until the day you leave in case you need a seat reservation (which you do for the TGV and Thalys - the fast trains). Enjoy the train!
Jul 26th, 2004, 06:19 PM
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Hi RebeccaM - I would love to know some of the names of the cheap / healthy / ethnic restaurants that you enjoyed.... I'm going to Paris in September, and while we are excited to partake of the glorious french food, and have heard the scoop on picknicking and prix-fixes, we love good ethnic food and would love to hear some names of places to look for. We'll be staying on the border of the 6th and 7th. Thanks for your report!
Jul 26th, 2004, 06:27 PM
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Rebecca, Thanks, We loved the Ile De Ré had lunch harborside and brought my empty flip top beer bottle of their famous beer, "La Blanche de Ré."
We stayed two nights in La Rochelle.
That's a place I'd like to return again. I almost bought a new folding bike there but the expense of shipping was too much.
We stayed two nights in La Rochelle.
That's a place I'd like to return again. I almost bought a new folding bike there but the expense of shipping was too much.
Jul 27th, 2004, 03:21 PM
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As for the restaurants, there's Les Cinq Saveurs at 72 rue du Cardinal Lemoine, an organic vegetarian restaurant, which serves large portions and seemed to be popular with the French - it's very casual, and tasty.
Also, La Petit Legume, 36 rue des Boulangers, a narrow street off of Cardinal Lemoine and Rue Monge. It's tiny, a one-woman shop, but delicious. I was amazed how this one cheerful woman was able to serve so many people.
We went to an Italian restaurant near the Seine, recommended here, called Ponte Vecchio. Wonderful food. By the way, we had pizza several times on our trip, and it was always delicious.
We didn't go to the Middle Eastern restaurant kitty-korner from the Grand Mosque on the left bank, but a good friend of mine says it is great. That's because we had already had Middle Eastern food several times in Belgium. In Brussels, we ate at a wonderful little Vietnamese place.
One French restaurant we loved was Fish, which I learned about here, at 69 rue du Seine.
I see that most of these are in the 5th, but they're not far from where you'll be. We learned something very important, by the way - if you want water from the tap (i.e., you don't pay for it), order "un carafe d'eau." Enjoy!
Also, La Petit Legume, 36 rue des Boulangers, a narrow street off of Cardinal Lemoine and Rue Monge. It's tiny, a one-woman shop, but delicious. I was amazed how this one cheerful woman was able to serve so many people.
We went to an Italian restaurant near the Seine, recommended here, called Ponte Vecchio. Wonderful food. By the way, we had pizza several times on our trip, and it was always delicious.
We didn't go to the Middle Eastern restaurant kitty-korner from the Grand Mosque on the left bank, but a good friend of mine says it is great. That's because we had already had Middle Eastern food several times in Belgium. In Brussels, we ate at a wonderful little Vietnamese place.
One French restaurant we loved was Fish, which I learned about here, at 69 rue du Seine.
I see that most of these are in the 5th, but they're not far from where you'll be. We learned something very important, by the way - if you want water from the tap (i.e., you don't pay for it), order "un carafe d'eau." Enjoy!
Jul 27th, 2004, 03:31 PM
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About the gardens...I had saved the article as a hard copy, but maybe you could still find it on the NY Times website: Our Correspondent in Paris: A Revelation of Secret Gardens, by Alan Riding, November 17, 2002.
These are the gardens we found - Square des Missions Etrangeres , off of Rue du Bac, in the 7th. I'm just remembering, though, it was going to be closed for some "repairs."
Nearby, Jardin Catherine Laboure, at 29 Rue de Babylone, is a wonderful vegetable garden that once belonged to the Convent right there. You could easily miss it because of the high walls. But there is an opening, and it's open to the public. It's quite a "revelation", being a large vegetable garden, with some flower beds. The article says that if anyone wants something from the vegetable garden, they just need to ask and it will be given to them.
Down the street, between Bon Marche and Blvd. Raspail is Square Boucicault. This isn't hidden, but it's beautiful, almost oriental in feeling, and very peaceful.
My favorite (not in the article) is the tiny park on rue du Bievre, near the Seine.
The article mentions others in different neighborhoods, but we didn't look for them. Writing about this is making me long for Paris!
These are the gardens we found - Square des Missions Etrangeres , off of Rue du Bac, in the 7th. I'm just remembering, though, it was going to be closed for some "repairs."
Nearby, Jardin Catherine Laboure, at 29 Rue de Babylone, is a wonderful vegetable garden that once belonged to the Convent right there. You could easily miss it because of the high walls. But there is an opening, and it's open to the public. It's quite a "revelation", being a large vegetable garden, with some flower beds. The article says that if anyone wants something from the vegetable garden, they just need to ask and it will be given to them.
Down the street, between Bon Marche and Blvd. Raspail is Square Boucicault. This isn't hidden, but it's beautiful, almost oriental in feeling, and very peaceful.
My favorite (not in the article) is the tiny park on rue du Bievre, near the Seine.
The article mentions others in different neighborhoods, but we didn't look for them. Writing about this is making me long for Paris!
Jul 27th, 2004, 06:18 PM
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RebeccaM - thank you for your lovely trip report and for posting back with the hidden garden article info. I put together a trip to Paris & Brussels/Brugge this past April from I research, and with help on this forum, and you have made me long to return. Your refreshing approach has given me new ideas for next time, I enjoyed many small local neighborhood parks that we encountered while strolling.
Beth- I would buy in advance. I bought a round trip ticket from Paris to Brussels online and opted to "print it yourself". I was unable to print it and just picked it up at a train station ticket window, (St. Lazare) no delivery charges. I paid 49e. round trip for a 14-day advance ticket, where day-of it could have been 49e each way. I did however wait and purchase other tickets on the spot, like from Paris to Vernon to see Giverny, and from Brussels to Brugge. I had no problem obtaining those 2. Still, I was staying a few nights in each place and had to coordinate transpo and hotel.
Beth- I would buy in advance. I bought a round trip ticket from Paris to Brussels online and opted to "print it yourself". I was unable to print it and just picked it up at a train station ticket window, (St. Lazare) no delivery charges. I paid 49e. round trip for a 14-day advance ticket, where day-of it could have been 49e each way. I did however wait and purchase other tickets on the spot, like from Paris to Vernon to see Giverny, and from Brussels to Brugge. I had no problem obtaining those 2. Still, I was staying a few nights in each place and had to coordinate transpo and hotel.
Jul 28th, 2004, 04:11 AM
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Hi Beth,
If you go to
http://www.voyages-sncf.com/dynamic/
you can purchase discount tickets up to 60 days in advance.
Leave France as the place where you will pick up your tickets.
If you go to
http://www.voyages-sncf.com/dynamic/
you can purchase discount tickets up to 60 days in advance.
Leave France as the place where you will pick up your tickets.
Jul 28th, 2004, 11:15 AM
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Ninasdream,
From what website did you purchase your train tickets from Paris to Brussels? I have not found a rate as cheap as 49e roundtrip anywhere. Also, if I had to choose between Brussels and Bruges, which is better for a day trip? All opinions are welcome.
From what website did you purchase your train tickets from Paris to Brussels? I have not found a rate as cheap as 49e roundtrip anywhere. Also, if I had to choose between Brussels and Bruges, which is better for a day trip? All opinions are welcome.
Jul 28th, 2004, 05:28 PM
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Beth, I can't see leaving Paris to go to Brussels. I can understand going to Bruges though - it's so beautiful and different from Paris. But it would be a long trip for a day, I think. If it's your first time in Paris, you might want to just stay there. How many days do you have there? We stayed 6 days there altogether and still didn't see and experience so many things.
Jul 28th, 2004, 07:20 PM
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ninasdream - do you remember what you paid for the tickets from Brussels to Brugge? We will be going roundtrip in October, and I haven't been able to get the info on the internet and am just curious. Thanks!
Jul 28th, 2004, 11:56 PM
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I'll add my tips on train travel in france.
as stated to me by a frenchman "this is france - everything is messy"
leave lots and lots of time. you can get good perosnal service at the ticket counter but it will be slow to get there with very few people working at peak times (they're all on the dole)
Open tickets can be good because of the logistical nightmares that you may come up against in France BUT when you are sure about the seat or sleeper you want to reserve - don't hesistate and for sleepers you must reserve them at least 3 hours ahead otherwise you have to hope that you can pay the conductor on the train. Somehow otehrs found a way to reserve it less than 3 hours ahead when i was told you can't do it.
many trains will be late but the one you want to be late will be on time. so be flexible....thats the benefit of an open ticket.
people can be quite anal about the reservation of seats. its a small extra and probbaly worth doing . I did it once and was able to not be bothered but really i can't see the point.
cheaper to go to the supermarket than buy food on a train
peace out
as stated to me by a frenchman "this is france - everything is messy"
leave lots and lots of time. you can get good perosnal service at the ticket counter but it will be slow to get there with very few people working at peak times (they're all on the dole)
Open tickets can be good because of the logistical nightmares that you may come up against in France BUT when you are sure about the seat or sleeper you want to reserve - don't hesistate and for sleepers you must reserve them at least 3 hours ahead otherwise you have to hope that you can pay the conductor on the train. Somehow otehrs found a way to reserve it less than 3 hours ahead when i was told you can't do it.
many trains will be late but the one you want to be late will be on time. so be flexible....thats the benefit of an open ticket.
people can be quite anal about the reservation of seats. its a small extra and probbaly worth doing . I did it once and was able to not be bothered but really i can't see the point.
cheaper to go to the supermarket than buy food on a train
peace out
Jul 29th, 2004, 12:37 AM
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blh,
Round trip trains fares vary on the Brussels-Brugge route...a round trip in second class on a week-end or holiday can cost as little as 12 to 15 euros. I usually pay about 30 euros for a round trip in first class.
If there are 5 or more of you traveling together, you can get a group discount. So figure somewhere in the 15 to 30 euro range per person. Also, if you are planning to travel on a week-end, going first class is worth it IMHO. The second class cars can be VERY crowded on week-ends, especially if the weather cooperates.
Round trip trains fares vary on the Brussels-Brugge route...a round trip in second class on a week-end or holiday can cost as little as 12 to 15 euros. I usually pay about 30 euros for a round trip in first class.
If there are 5 or more of you traveling together, you can get a group discount. So figure somewhere in the 15 to 30 euro range per person. Also, if you are planning to travel on a week-end, going first class is worth it IMHO. The second class cars can be VERY crowded on week-ends, especially if the weather cooperates.
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