weber6560

The following is from a current article by Thomas Soul. Don't know if the facts are right but interesting:

It so happens that I have ridden on Spain's high-speed rail system. It was very nice, especially since I did not have to pay the full costs, which were subsidized by the Spanish taxpayers.While the Spanish government has been subsidizing the passengers on its high-speed rail system, the European Union has been subsidizing the Spanish government. Someone once said that government is the illusion that we can all live off somebody else. Spain's high-speed rail system is not even covering its operating costs, never mind the enormous costs of setting up the system in the first place. One reason is that half the seats are empty in the high-speed trains in Spain.

Thoughts?

PalenQ

European Socialism, Newt the Jerk would say! I think the free ride for Europeans may be over - Italy has traditionally had absurdly cheap fares and FS-Trenitalia habitually ran up huge deficits as a public utility, which I believe rail systems should be - highly subsidized by governments indeed as a public service much like highways or water or electric, etc.

But Italian train fares on the fast trains at least is escalating greatly to near pan-European levels.

The French SNCF for years routinely ran far in the red - there were so many perks - my ex-wife as a public employee was given several free train rides a year - a perk she still has in retirement and liberal discounts at other times. And when the 35-hour work week came to France some years ago it was found that SNCF workers only worked about 28 hours a week! School kids tell (or at least told when my French son was small) a joke about the SNCF -
Three kids sitting around ask each other 'what does your Papa do and when does he get off work and when does he get home?
1st kid says my Papa is a waiter = he gets off work at 6pm and is home by 6:30pm
2nd kid days my pere is a policemen and he gets off work at 7pm and gets home about 8pm
3rd kids says 'my papa works for the SNCF as a cheminot and he gets off work at 6pm but is home by 4pm!'

the free ride on European trains may be over but I for one at least lament that development - indeed one Paris metro users group wants to make the metro free - spurring its use, etc. And I would be fine with free train travel for all - including tourists from abroad!

Christina

What is new about that or surprising to you? I thought all rail systems are pretty much subsidized to some extent by their respective governments, I thought that was the norm. It's a matter of providing services to the public and helping keep traffic off the roads. Transportation isn't a frill or luxury (IMO), I think it's one of the most important things a govt should address.

What rail systems do you know that are making profits?

hetismij2

Of course you would be Pal - you wouldn't be paying the taxes to pay for it, just as you don't pay for the "free" health care in Europe.


Many high speed lines lose money. They cost a fortune to build, maintain and run. If the price is charged to cover the operating costs people will opt for a slower cheaper service - just as they do here in the Netherlands where people won't pay the surcharge for Fyra, but will take a slower option.
Train fares here go up annually but are reasonable.

Train fares in the UK are complicated and ridiculously high because the companies are all private, but the trains get used. I wonder if people in the UK will be prepared to pay even more for the proposed new high speed line there, or of they too will opt for slow but cheap(er).

qwovadis

seat61.com/spain AVEs are nice but quite expensive locals cannot afford.Corruption nepotism endemic socialist history
precludes job generation the only solution there employment
20% 40% in the young just a matter of time B4 major fianacial crisis similar to Greece.Nearby Portugal is paying 17% to finance itself will be next after Greece goes into an "orderly" default within the next few months.Cost them 33%.Will spill over to the UK/US Gold is
the only fortress asset that has stood the test of time
5000% profit since 1970 for me buying major pullbacks.

Good luck to us all will make for cheap travel though.

PalenQ

Of course you would be Pal - you wouldn't be paying the taxes to pay for it, just as you don't pay for the "free" health care in Europe.>

Where does that 20% plus often VAT tax that I always have to pay go to? The government - sheer hyppcrisy of you to say I do not pay for anything - VAT of 20% makes me pay probably more total taxes than some Dutch!

and in Amsterdamned and other cities I do pay a hotel tax as well!