Autumn without reservations
 

Does anyone know if it's feasible to travel in Italy without reservations in the Autumn? We plan on being in Rome and Florence, but want to spend time in Tuscany at vineyards, and in small towns, as well as the Cinque Terre. We are 3 adults and are "budget travelers," looking for clean and comfortable but not fancy.

Feasible yes, advisable not so much. Of course it partly depends on what part of 'autumn' you are talking about. Late September/early October is still pretty high season whereas late November less so. I would not try it at all until November.

The problem with last minute bookings is that most of the good 'value' places may be gone leaving you with either crappy places or expensive places.

I would at least do some research and pick two or three hotels in each location in your price range so you aren't just showing up in a city with no idea where to go. In fact, I'd book some places for tentative dates that have policies that let you cancel till the last day or so. Then once you get there you can 'adjust' your dates.

As an example, I was just in Italy the last week in March - so similar in terms of tourist crowds to late October/November. I had things all booked but able to canceled within three days. Mid week the weather where we were planning to (Milan/Lake Como) was cold and rainy but it was forecast to be sunny and 70 in Rome. The first hotel I wanted in Rome was all booked by then, but the second had availability, and I was able to cancel the Milan hotel without penalty.

Florence and Rome will have plenty of tourists even in the 'off' season, but they also have more hotel rooms. Tuscany and the CT may have less demand (especially later in the autumn) but they there might be less hotels to choose from.

We travel almost exclusively in the second half of October, sometimes into the first few days of November. The big cities are more crowded every year, especially between Friday and Monday.

Whether your travel plan will work...

It depends on what you mean by "budget." Some people have in mind a number that is very low and would be difficult to find even with advance research.

It depends on how picky you are. I'm not sure how easy it would be at the last minute to find a triple room or three single rooms in the same hotel. Do you know how you'll handle the possibility that accommodations will not all be at the same rate or are not "equal" in terms of quality or comfort?

It depends on how much time you're willing to take away from sightseeing to search for the next accommodation. Which goes back to the triple/single room quest, budget limit, picky factor, etc.

BTW, if you're planning to explore Tuscan vineyards, there are a few things to know: You should make appointments to be sure you can actually visit. If you plan to taste, someone needs to be the designated driver as Italian drunk driving laws are very strict. Whoever will be driving needs to have an International Driver's Permit. If you plan to visit small Tuscan towns, you should learn all about ZTLs (Zona Traffico Limitato) which are the central areas of most towns you are not allowed to drive into. Last minute car rentals can be very expensive.

This article specifically mentions big cities, but even the very small towns usually have a ZTL.

https://www.italybeyondtheobvious.co...with-ztl-zones

September and October are very much high season in central Italy. In fact, in Rome, hotel presences are higher in those months than in July and August. If you go after the first week in November, you should have no problem.

Even at the last minute, you can almost always find some place to stay. If you're rather fussy about the type of room you want, and don't want to spend much, you may waste a lot of time looking for the right place at a price you can afford. It's easier, of course, to find a room for one night than it is to find a room for a week.

Just as an example, I just did a search on www.booking.com for a room in the center of Rome for three nights, beginning tomorrow. I found over 200 hotel rooms (and a lot of B&Bs, hostels, guest houses, etc.), and then I sorted it by price and eliminated those with a guest rating of lower than 8.0, and those with fewer than 50 guest ratings. I found 6 rooms that were under €100 per night with this rating. If I had included also B&Bs in my search, there would have been a lot more. There's nothing wrong with B&Bs, and I often stay in a B&B myself. I just didn't want to take the time to read the full descriptions to see exactly what was included. Often they are just budget hotels with minimal services, and the breakfast may be packaged pastries and juice, with a coffee machine; or a voucher to get a cappuccino and pastry at the nearest bar.

I wouldn't think of doing that until November, when I likely wouldn't choose to go on a Tuscan vacation anyway. I really, really dislike wasting vacation time searching for accommodations, calling and emailing hotels, stopping at tourist offices to see what's available, etc. (and I have a lot more disposable vacation time that most people, at least Americans, do, so am rarely rushed in my travels).

Well, at least if you reserve on booking.com, you just have to make a short list, read the reviews, decide, and pay. It took me all of five minutes to find those six hotel rooms in Rome. By the way, I should have mentioned that May is also a very busy month for tourism in central Italy. In Rome, it's almost as busy as September, and definitely busier than the summer months.

LOL, the same old same old. People who plan trips and pre-book, supposing they are qualified to comment on 'winging it'.

People who do not make a habit of winging it have a perception based on what they are fed by booking sites, etc. 'Book now, only 2 rooms left for the time period you want', etc.

They object based on things like, you'll waste time finding a place, you may have to pay more than you wanted to, etc.

I regularly wing it unless I am going to one destination that I know and already have a favourite hotel I want to stay in. I've never had to sleep on a park bench yet and funnily enough, I've never spent more money than I had to spend. Strange how that happens.

As for wasting time, if you are not experienced at how to go about finding hotels when you wing it, then perhaps you would waste time finding a place to stay. But the more experience you have in winging it, the better you become at doing that. Strange how that works too.

I sometimes find a place to stay while sitting in a restaurant/bar/taverna etc. enjoying a glass of wine and/or a meal. Strange how I am able to do that too.

I would wing it anywhere in Europe at any time of year, without any qualms whatsoever. If I listened to the planners who post in travel forums, I must be broke and have wasted a lot of time walking streets past a lot of hotels with 'No Vacancy' signs and ended up on park benches. Strange how that has never happened.

I don't care if some people feel the need to pre-plan their time and pre-book their accommodation. That's up to them to decide. Personally, I prefer the freedom that winging it gives me and pre-planning simply cannot provide. What I don't understand is why those who do plan feel they need to tell others that they must do the same or suffer dire consequences if they don't.

The question is whether it is feasible to wing it and the answer is YES it is. As for the dire consequences if you do so, they only exist in other people's minds.

We used to always wing it and enjoyed the flexibility it allowed. However as more and more people travel, it has become tedious and tiresome. As someone above mentioned what is often left are the higher priced or less desirable rooms.

If the poster above knows some secret way to find a room on the fly, do share. Of course you won't end up on a park bench, but my experience has been unless you are way off season, it can take time to find a room. And that's time I would prefer to spend doing something else even if it's sitting in a cafe staring into space. I don't see where anyone mentioned dire consequences. What was presented was realistic experiences.

What we do sometimes is leave portions of our trips open so we allow some flexibility. Yes, we find rooms, but 9 times out of 10 what we find turn out to be our least favorite accommodations on a trip. That's another point, we spend time in our rooms. Rooms are not just a place to keep our clothes and sleep. A leisurely late afternoon or evening in a nice, comfortable room is important to us.

A single person or couple "winging it" has an easier task. Need one room, find one room.

The OP is part of a 3-person group which has to (a) find a triple room, or (b) find 3 single rooms in the same hotel, or (c) find a double and a single in the same hotel, or (d) find rooms in different hotels that are near each other. All of these options are also impacted by the group's budget which none of us knows.

No one is saying "winging it" isn't possible, but we are pointing out the plan's possible downsides (not "dire consequences"). And yestravel has pointed out that not everyone travels in the same way.

I've done it for various places in Italy (including Rome), but as pointed out, it uses your time. If you are there for several weeks, that might not be an issue, but if you are only there 10-12 days, you might not want to waste time looking for rooms.

I usually book at least my arrival and departure hotels and sometimes a few others. I may leave a few open spots, but have a good idea of possible hotels or apartments.

<<LOL, the same old same old. People who plan trips and pre-book, supposing they are qualified to comment on 'winging it'.>>

Yes, I suppose, actually KNOW, I am qualified to comment on "winging it." I based my comments on having done exactly that more times than I care to remember. I don't consider "winging it" to be "freedom," personally. I have many, many other ways of obtaining "freedom" when I travel.

You can get a good idea of what you'll be facing by using the month of June to try to book rooms last minute using a website like booking.com. Just plug in the next day's date for the destinations you are considering, see what's shows as available in your budget. Read reviews. If you find the choices acceptable, take your chances.

"Winging it" is still a perfectly fine approach to travel. Sure, if you wait until a day or two prior the best-of-the-best hotel options will be gone. So what? There will still be lots of perfectly fine options available (safe, clean, and central).

You will *NOT* be left with a choice between a "crappy place" and an expensive one. There will be plenty left in the middle. I know this from experience. Unless you are visiting a city at the same time as the World Cup finals or another similar event, you won't get shut out of mid-range options even in high season.

What you need is a list of recommended lodging from a guidebook, a travel forum, or a booking site like booking.com. If all else fails, use the room-finding service at the T.I. office.

A word of caution on using booking.com or similar sites to determine room availability. When booking.com says a hotel is full, don't believe them. Check with the hotel directly by calling or by email. Hotels might allot only a portion of their rooms to those sites. When that allotment is gone the site reports the hotel is full. It may not be. Call to be sure.

You know people, simply repeating the same objections over and over will not make you right in your opinion.

Winging it is perfectly feasible if that is what the OP wants to do and that you are not comfortable with doing it means nothing.

I do not 'waste time' finding a room, I do not spend more money, etc. etc.

There is no 'secret way' I use to find rooms, there are simply many ways that someone who wings it learns to use.

Older posters on this forum will recognise Dogeared as a poster who was banned about three years ago.

<<You know people, simply repeating the same objections over and over will not make you right in your opinion.>>

And the very same goes for your opinions.

>>will recognise Dogeared as a poster who was banned about three years ago.<<

And is probably on thin ice again.

Dogeared/sojourntraveller . . . You often give decent/useful advice (and sometimes truly awful advice) but you simply cannot post w/o being snide/nasty. You were give a lifetime ban but have decided to come back. Why not try playing nice and quit with the 'I-know-everything' and everyone else are dim wits crap . . .

Can i express a middle view? I certainly wouldn't wing it in Rome or Venice at any time of year but if it's just two of us, when traveling in smaller places I wouldn't hesitate. Years ago we did it with the kids too, but in retrospect that wasn't such a good idea; though we did find some good places we also had problems such as in a Paris transport strike when we ended up driving miles to a hotel that had taken us a hour on the phone to find.

Finding a room/rooms for 3 particularly on a budget might not be so easy though, and given that you have particular ideas about where you want to stay, I'm not sure that I'd want to take the risk.

A previous post by Dogeared:

When arriving almost anywhere that gets some tourists one way to find a place to stay is to go to a bar for a drink. Sound strange? Don't you believe me? OK, some explanation is required I guess.

Suppose you arrive in a village in Greece or somewhere in France or in a small desert town in California, or in the southeast of England, it really doesn't matter where, but those are places I can give you actual examples of quite easily.

Instead of looking for a hotel, go to a bar and sit down at the bar and order a drink. After 10 or 15 minutes ask the bartender if he can suggest a decent place to stay. Tell him/her what you are looking for. Clean, cheap or 5 star, for a night or a week, etc. You will be surprised what might happen.

On a road trip through France one time a bartender suggested a place a few blocks away. We finished our drinks, drove over and found the place locked up. A hotel, obviously in business but the front door was locked! A very nice looking and probably 3 star hotel. We drove back to the bar.

When I told the bartender he said, 'oh, I forgot it is Sunday, George will be at home. Just a minute I will call him.' He went and called, came back and told me George would drive over to the bar and meet us. He'd be there in about 15 minutes. I ordered drinks and we sat back looking at the river outside the bar's window until George duly arrived.

George came in, introduced himself and I ordered him a glass of wine. He explained that he too had a life outside of work and on weekends he liked to spend his time with his family like everyone else. So the hotel was closed although there were guests in the hotel. They had a code to open the door.

He told me there were rooms available, we should just go to the hotel use the code which he then told me, and pick a room. The vacant rooms 12, 14 and 8 (or some such) had the key in their door and we should just pick one. He finished his wine while we chatted a little and then left. No money, no credit card number, nothing, just go and let yourself in. We will settle the bill when you leave.

In a seaside village on a Greek island, I arrived (travellling alone) in mid-afternoon. The village had a seaside promenade (no cars allowed) and lots of little 'hotels' with 6-10 rooms each along the promenade. I went into a bar and ordered a drink. Eventually after a bite to eat as well, I asked the bartender/owner about a room. Where would he suggest? He called his wife over and after finding out what I wanted, Maria called her cousin Maria who owned the little mini-market a few doors away. Shortly after, Maria's son Georgos showed up and asked me if I would like to come and see the two rooms they rented out over the mini-market. He showed me a spacious room with 3 single beds and a small kitchen area as well as a large balcony with a table and four chairs on it that overlooked the sea. For 25 Euros per night if I stayed a week.

In England enroute to the ferry at Dover I needed a place to sleep before catching the ferry in the morning. So I drove into the town of Faversham just northwest of Canterbury. I found a pub and went in for a drink. When I asked the landlord about a room he told me they had rooms upstairs and I was all set. Didn't even have to move. That night, they had a 'lock-in'. For those who don't know, that's when the landlord locks the pub doors as per the law but the local regulars continue on in the pub having another drink or two. I felt quite included.

I returned to that same pub a few years later, again on the way to Dover. When I asked about a room the landlord told me they were full and he though everywhere would be full as there were some weddings etc. going on. Sure enough, after his good wife had phoned around for me no room was to be had in any inn in the area. Not to worry the landlord told me. If you are willing we will let you sleep in the pub for the night. So at closing when everyone had left, his wife gave me a pillow and blanket and I slept peacefully on one fo the padded benches. No charge.

In Southern California I drove into a small town in the middle of a state park (the town was there before the park existed and so has been able to remain even though surrounded by park). Doing my usual I headed for a bar and eventually asked the bartender for suggestions. He said, 'just a minute' and walked away. He had a conversation with a guy at the other end of the bar and came back. 'If you want to go with Jack over there, he is the manager of a golf resort and they have rental accommodation available that are condos and casitas that members own.'

So off I went with Jack to see this place. It was a 5 star gated golf course resort community. As we were driving over, Jack asked me about budget and how long I wanted a place for. I said 5 or 6 nights and under $100 a night. He said, 'can you stretch to 7 nights and pay $600 for the week? Normally this place I am going to show you goes for $1200 a week but it's the slow season and I know the owner wants to try and at least make enough to pay their costs.'

It was a 2 bedroom/2 bathroom house with everything new and modern. Along with the place to stay I got pool access, (never saw another person there all week) and access to the Club House as well as a free round of golf every day including the golf cart! That was a bargain.

Finding a room can be a chore sometimes, but I've yet to have this method not end up well. So next time instead of checking your guidebook or asking a taxi driver (always a bad idea actually), try going for a drink.

>> I certainly wouldn't wing it in Rome or Venice at any time of year but if it's just two of us, when traveling in smaller places I wouldn't hesitate. <<

That is my general philosophy -- ALWAYS pre-book in any major city but in the countryside I often do wing it. It partly depends on time of year, and how many are traveling together. Solo -- piece of cake except in the highest season(s). A couple is also easy. But if I need a triple or multiple rooms, or if I'm traveling with children I always pre-book.

For the OP: By Autumn -- do you mean Sept/early Oct or late Nov or ?? that would make a big difference.

Yeah, I'd just love to have that adventure with George or sleep in a bar with my 3-year-old. NOT!

For those who don't know, that's when the landlord locks the pub doors as per the law but the local regulars continue on in the pub having another drink or two. I felt quite included.>>

yeh, as an Aussie I bet you did. They probably still talk about the night the Aussie joined in their lock in.

but it's a good idea, Peter - I hope you haven't patented it!

annhig: >>yeh, as an Aussie I bet you did. They probably still talk about the night the Aussie joined in their lock in.

but it's a good idea, Peter - I hope you haven't patented it!<<

I know it is hard to keep the players straight ;) -- but Peter_S_Aus was quoting a post by by dogeared (who is Canadian - and talks out both sides of his mouth >) )

thank you JJ - I missed the first vital sentence.

I bet they still remember dogeared though.

<i> The question is whether it is feasible to wing it </i>

If one interprets feasible as, would it ever be possible at all, then of course it is, since slmost nothing in life is impossible. But the OP proceeded to stipulate criteria along the lines of 'clean and comfortable' which for some reason, is frequently assumed to be easy to produce and thus easy to find.

However, much of Italy was built before the invention of the car or the motor scooter, to say nothing of increased population and stress on sewers, etc.

So if one is truly not fussy, one would accept a ground floor room with single glazed, poorly fitting windows that front on a major street in Florence. Rooms in such a building would not be in high demand and thus more likely to be rented last minute. But it would not meet many people's standards of comfortable, even if they were willing to accept a room that was completely plain in other respects.

The maid may have scrubbed the bathroom, but if the drains have not been updated to meet modern codes, the place has a risk of being smelly and thus appear unclean.

In other words, getting a room to be clean and comfortable can take money and ingenuity. Nothing to do with the decor.

The unarticulated assumption is also that they want their party of three housed in the same hotel, if not the same room. The person who pointed out that the probability of finding this arrangement easily in a part of the world where hotel rooms are apt to be small wasn't incorrect to do so.

As for the story of going for a drink, this is the era of airbnb. Social media, not bar media, fills desirable apartments so that they are much less likely to be vacant last minute than they used to be.

(preview function still not working)

So the probability of finding something is very dependent on the individual's or their party's standards of 'clean and comfortable' as is the exact time of year (as janisj and annhig have pointed out) and whether any competing activities (festivals, etc.) happen to be in town.

Said probability, therefore, is not easy, in fact almost impossible, to estimate with any degree of accuracy, as a 'one size fits all' matter for the general population of travelers.

St. Cirq, wrote, "And the very same goes for your opinions."

I agree with everyone having the right to an opinion, but let's be clear on what was asked and what was answered. The question was is it feasible to which the answer is either yes or no. I answered yes, citing the fact (not an opinion) that I do it most of the time.

If someone wants to answer no, then I'd like to see them cite facts as to how they can show it is not feasible, in terms of facts, not opinions.

That means, you would have to say that you had tried to do it say 10 times and failed to find an acceptable room; in an acceptable amount of time; at an acceptable price; in an acceptable location, etc.

So where I am saying yes based on my factual experience, what I am reading in response is people saying no based on opinions, not facts.

Now with Sue_xx_yy,'s latest response, we are getting into finding reasons why it won't work like, having poor windows or maybe the plumbing will smell. That's called 'grasping for straws'. Am I and the OP supposed to believe that booking on a third party website in advance will avoid that happening? I would suggest that I am far more likely to avoid that if in fact I rent the room when I see it! It is when relying on a picture on a booking site that things like that are far more likely to occur.

StCirq tries to suggest that I am saying someone should sleep in a bar with their 3 year old. "or sleep in a bar with my 3-year-old. NOT!" That's taking a comment out of context and then trying to say it was meant as a 'universal' answer. Hardly a sophisticated debating tactic. Is anyone really stupid enough to think I would suggest you sleep in a bar with your 3 year old? I slept in the pub when I was on my own obviously.

As I wrote in response to yestravel, there is no secret method that applies in every situation to find a room. It depends on the situation at the time. I would not expect to find a room while sitting having a glass of wine in a restaurant, in a major city for example. That is a method that works in small towns/villages.

I don't know why whenever this topic of planning vs. winging comes up, planners feel this need to try and say you can't wing it. I as a 'winger' feel no need to try and say you can't plan it. I am perfectly happy to accept that you can do either. It is simply a matter of which do you prefer as an individual. I'm not trying to take away your security blanket from you all.

Oh, brother. The OP no longer cares...

I always used to wing it. I stopped after a trip to Spain, about ten years ago, when I spent hours trying to find a room in Salamanca.

On an even earlier trip, traveling with my two young daughters, I asked the owner of a restaurant (in Segovia) if she knew of a room for several nights for the three of us. She rented rooms herself, and gave us the key and the address. To get to the room, we had to go to the top floor of a building, exit onto the roof, and walk across to the adjacent building. The room was in an apartment, and the door to the room didn't lock. After a few hours, the other occupants of the apartment returned. They were all temp workers, apparently construction workers. When I sat on the toilet, something was dripping on my head. After that, I began using guide books or tourist offices in the train station to find rooms.

Tourist offices used to be great resources for finding rooms. Back in the old days, I've arrived late in the day, in high season, in Paris and London and found a decent room on the spot. I've also done this in China. However, the internet has practically killed these tourist offices. Proprietors don't list with them any more. It's easier to list with booking.com or hotels.com.

bvl, we too toured France with the help of local tourist offices and never had a bad place to stay. As you say, it's a shame that that doesn't exist any more.

Tourist offices in Italy will help you find a room. For many, when they are shut, there is a list of rooms with telephone numbers posted in the window.
There is a tourist office in almost every Italian town I've ever been in. They are called Pro Loco offices.

The Pro Loco in most towns doesn't run the tourist office. The Pro Loco is a volunteer group that promotes the town. The tourist office is usually run by the comune, and has paid employees. In some towns, the tourist office may be manned by Pro Loco volunteers, and in very small towns there may be no tourist office at all, and the Pro Loco will will the vacuum. Usually what they do is organize festivals, Christmas festivities, sporting events (such as marathons or fun runs), and the like. They also promote the local wines and other produce, and sometimes offer tours of the town.

The tourist office in our town will help you find a room, but I'm talking about the big tourist offices that used to exist in train stations and at airports, and that could actually reserve a room for you, with hundreds of listings. That really is a thing of the past.

I am a bit perplexed by the jeremiad above. I'm the one who first mentioned a "third-party booking site", but I mentioned it as a resource that would probably succeed in finding you a last-minute room if you wanted to wing it. It's certainly better than trying to find rooms in the local bar.