autobahn in the US
 

I was just reading the post about the autobahn in germany. Why do you think is this not also possible in the US (no speed limits). Are our drivers so bad or have they not so much dicipline as the german drivers? <BR>What is your opinion <BR> <BR>Sarah

The problem with your question is that mixing high speed and low speed vehicles on the same road is inherently dangerous ... that's the cause of so many accidents. <BR> <BR>German auto manufacturers have thrown a sop to safety by agreeing to limit the speed of their of products to 155 mph, or a bit over 250 km/hr. Isn't that nice of them. <BR> <BR>At the same time the speed limit for many heavy vehicles is 80 to 100 km/hr. So you have vehicles traveling side by side (for a millisecond) running at speeds differing by 100 mph. In other words, the Autobahns are inherently unsafe by design. <BR> <BR>The only thing that keeps them from having a higher accident rate are the fact that Germans are quite good about following regulations, and the German government has very stringent requirements for building and maintaining roads. <BR> <BR>I wouldn't think of driving 150 mph on a Missouri highway, even the day after it was built or repaved. How would you like to drive at 150 mph over the potholes around NYC? <BR> <BR>And if you had a bunch of idiots driving in the left lane at 50 mph with one arm out the window and the other applying lipstick I'd not particularly want to come up on them at any speed whatsoever. <BR> <BR>The issue, though, isn't US drivers or road conditions. Speed kills. Extreme speed kills, extremely. Hit a telephone pole at 25 mph without your seatbelt on and your head smashes something hard enough in the car that you're dead. Imagine what your body looks like after a disagreement between a 50mph truck and a 250mph Opel.

The experience of many Germans driving in the USA is that they don't concentrate as much as they do at home. The problem is that the traffic isn't demanding as much attention and out of that reason one starts to dream. The subjective feeling is one of less safety than in a more hectic traffic but I don't know whether this has any objective backing.

I don't know, Hans, that traffic doesn't demand as much attention in teh US. It does. It just doesn't get it. The results tend to be a bit less catastrophic on occasion though, since many collisions occur between cars going at more or less similar speeds. <BR> <BR>On an Autobahn, though, with 50 and 100 mph differences between vehicles the results tend to be a bit more "final". Which sort of provides a natural selection process ... the drivers who concentrate survive. The drivers who don't concentrate aren't around to bother the others. <BR> <BR>Maybe you've hit on something, Hans. Perhaps if we took away the speed limits for a few years we'd eliminate many of the hare-brained US drivers. It'd help with population control as well.

Maybe 100 mph is not proper on some Missouri highways, but much of I-70 through the midwest, could arguably sustain a higher speed limit. It is, for the most part (or at least in long stretches) flat and straight. The type of road is not enough. A lot of education and enforcement would be needed re: slow traffic needs to stay to the right. This would not be enough, though. We (the US) is an entertainment and big drink society, though. Try fiddling with the radio and sucking on a big gulp, while talking on the phone at 100 mph.... Disaster. Finally, in the "land of the free" we don't like to allow people that kind of personal responsibility and freedom that is had when, at 100 mph, your life is in your own hands.

Hans, does the German Government allow drivers to be using cellphones on the autobahn. Here in the US, I almost can always tell when someone is on their cell phone. They are very dangerous. <BR>

Art- <BR> <BR>The German government just recently banned cell phone use in vehicles on any road or autobahn. They have gotten very strict about it. <BR> <BR>Just an interesting tidbit to add: I heard on CNN last week that someone on the autobahn caused a wreck (and deaths) because he was going 150 mph and reading the newspaper.

actually, in Montana, there are no speed limits during the daytime... <BR> <BR>I read this article 5 years ago, the complete article was SO FUNNY. (you gotta pay to see it all now, darn archives...) <BR> <BR> <BR>Tom KenworthyWashington Post Staff Writer <BR>December 9, 1995; Page A3 <BR>Section: A SECTION <BR>Word Count: 1181 <BR> <BR>As dawn broke over the plains of eastern Montana this morning, the Big Sky State became the Sky's the Limit State, again. Though their vehicular spirits were dampened a bit by subzero temperatures and swirling snow, drivers across Montana today regained their freedom to put the pedal to the metal, reveling anew in their state's unique status as the only place in America with no daytime speed limit for motorists. Twenty-one years after the state bowed to a congressional directive to impos <BR>

Some roads in the west (particularly in the desert) and north in the US used to be speed-limit free. And many of those roads are still very lightly enforced. <BR> <BR>But many of our highways are not designed to handle those speeds. The curves are not banked adequately to for 150 mph.

I don't know if the no-speed-limit concept would work across the United States. Besides, I think <I>some</I> upper speed limit is a reasonable restriction. <BR> <BR>What I DO wish was enforced -- or better enforced -- in the U.S. are <I>minimum</I> speed limits on freeways, as well as people who drive below the speed limit in the passing lane on freeways (the latter is a chronic problem here in the Seattle area, and it's something I've NEVER noticed during the times I've driven in France on the autoroutes.) <BR> <BR>Why European drivers -- well, drivers in France anyway -- seem to understand this simple "slower-traffic-keep-right" concept and so many drivers in the U.S. do not, has always been a puzzle to me. <BR> <BR>Perhaps "Slower-Traffic-Keep-Right" signs are treated by some U.S. drivers in the same way that "No Smoking" signs seem to be treated by some European smokers: not as a rule to be obeyed, but merely a suggestion.

Sarah, you must be new to this website. <BR> <BR>Obviously Americans are too stupid to do anything that the Europeans do. Everything in Europe is better and all their people are smarter, healthier, happier, nicer and more deserving of heaven (even though they are too smart to beleive in God). Perhaps if there were no Republicans or major corporations in America, then the Yanks could eventually catch up. By the way, Canadians aren't as good as Europeans, but that's only because they are stuck being next to the idiotic Americans.

Sarah, <BR> <BR>My opinion is that an autobahn in the US is physically but not (at present) psychologically possible. As mentioned in the previous posts, the lack of skill and attentiveness by some US drivers is enough to effectively *shut down* any attempts by better US drivers to really move. But instead of just a lack of skills, I think we are hampered by a lack of collective desire to keep traffic moving. Any given group of US drivers will simply not work together in order to achieve the most effective traffic flow possible. <BR> <BR>You see this in merging traffic for instance. If everyone in the right lane simply allowed enough space for one vehicle to merge in, and if every merging vehicle increased its speed sufficient to move into the space created for it, you would see no (or at least greatly diminished) merge delays based on cascading deceleration of vehicles in a line of traffic. Similarly, have you ever noticed the amount of time it takes for you, as say the 20th vehicle in a line stopped at a red light, to begin to accelerate when the light turns green? I am no physicist, but I guess the delay is the sum of individual reaction times as drivers key off the vehicle in front of them. Unfortunately for efficient movement of traffic, we US drivers are less capable than a flock of geese. A goose is smart enough in flight to key off the flier in front of the flier in front of her/him--I have read that this allows the flock to change directions and flow nearly as one. <BR> <BR>Bottom line, there are enough US drivers out there with absolutely no interest in overall effective traffic flow to spoil it for those who might benefit from a US autobahn. <BR> <BR>If we drivers had

I don't think autobahns would work in the US because half of the people don't keep their cars properly maintained. Could you see some old jalopy with a dragging muffler trying to manage on a high-speed freeway?

If you drive in Montana, you will notice that the highways are lined with crosses. Also Montana drivers seem to think seat belts an infringement of their freedoms. I'd rather look at the sites and get there later but alive. <BR> <BR>Capo: I agree with you about the inconsiderate drivers that insist on driving in the fast lane at or below the speed limit. They are a hazzard. How do they know the person behind them is not going on an emergency--like going to the hospital. They force other drivers to change lanes to get around them when they can. This causes aggrevation and additional danger. Oregon has/had a law that you couldn't be in the fast lane unless passing. This was posted on the highways and you could be ticked for not pulling over. And whaterer became of the California law that when on a 2 lane road you had more than 7 cars behind you that you had to pull over and let them pass? <BR> <BR>The fact that I'm not allowed to suicidally drive 150 miles per hour is not the problem. If only we could get people to drive more sensibly. <BR> <BR>Safe and happy driving, <BR> <BR>Gerry

Every once in a while I come across some US driver, usually its an old man I have noticed, who is the policeman of the road he thinks. The speed limit is 55 so damn it he thinks I'm going to make sure they ALL drive 55 by staying at that speed and staying in the left lane of a 2 lane freeway. No matter who or how many come up behind him he stays his course at 55 in the left. And every single person who wants to go even 56 has to go into the right lane and pass him there even if it endangers them and him and his family plus others. Policemen of the world...that's old crotchety dyed in the wool Amerikan guys.

I agree that 150 mph, even 100 mph is too much, but isn't it ridiculous to enforce 55 mph in a 4 lane each way access controlled highway? (example: I-264, Virginia Beach to Norfolk) <BR> <BR>And why do you Americans think that all vehicles must travel at same speed? What is the use of multi-lane roads then? If you follow the rules, it is not dangerous at all. Oh, you have to learn the rules first, that's the problem :-) <BR>

Excellent post, Typical Fodor Poster.

For better or worse, I think that the difference between US interstates and Europe's autobahn/autoroute/austostrada system is the tolerance of "class-ism". <BR> <BR>America cannot tolerate the idea that someone who invests $50,000 in an automobile, and uses it as a business tool to get from point A to point B is any better than some codger (or newly arrived non-english speaking immigrant, or teenager, or you-name it) in that rattletrap with the muffler hanging off - - when it comes to all having to drive at the same speed. I'm surprised that there aren't anti-"class-ist" legislators working on limiting modem speeds. No fair T1 lines until every one else in America gets them! <BR> <BR>Sitting in the left hand lane at 55.1 mph is about "entitlement" in America, and that attitude is not (yet) as prevalent in Europe. It has very little to do with safety. <BR>

One of the worst inovations on American cars has been cruise control. <BR> <BR>It simply relaxes the driver TOO much. I have seen this happen over and over: Let's say that you are going 5 miles above the speed limit (60,70,80,whatever) on a 4 lane highway. Two cars are side-by-side, both of them with cruise control. One of them is going at exactly the speed limit, and the other one is going 1/10th of a mile above. As hard as I've tried, flashing lights and even honking, I have never seen anyone either speed up and get back on the right or brake down and get back on the right. I can almost hear their conversations: <BR> <BR>- Oh, I'd better move, someone's in a hurry! <BR>- Nah! Don't bother. You are driving at the speed limit. They are breaking the law, they can wait... <BR> <BR>

Thanks, Gerry. The state of Washington, like Oregon (and, I presume, some other states as well), also has has a law that says you are not to be in the passing/"fast" lane unless passing. Problem is, I bet this law is rarely, if ever, enforced and laws that aren't enforced are, of course, quite meaningless. <BR> <BR>Glenn, Re: "Every once in a while I come across some US driver, usually its an old man I have noticed, who is the policeman of the road he thinks." <BR> <BR>That reminds me of an article I read a few years ago which talked about the different types of drivers. One of the types mentioned was exactly this kind of person, a type the article called "the enforcer." <BR> <BR>Where I work we have some contract workers from other countries. A few years ago I was heading to our lunchroom and heard two guys speaking in an accent so I stopped. One of them was British and the other Dutch and I asked them what they thought of American (well, at least around Seattle) drivers as compared to European drivers. One of them had an interesting comparison; he said "Americans cruise, but Europeans <I>drive</I>." <BR>

I’ve driven on a lot of roads in a lot of countries and the one thing I can generalize about is that you can’t generalize about anything. There are horrible, inept, inconsiderate, dangerous, selfish, overly fast and overly slow drivers in every country and on every road, and then there are skilled, courteous, and attentive drivers right behind them (way behind, most of the time.) <BR> <BR>The thing is, that most people, Euros and non-Euros alike, have only the dimmest idea as to how much carnage their iron ponies can create, for themselves and others, and unfortunately the “learn from your mistakes” approach has a high personal cost in most cases. <BR> <BR>And it’s a public health issue, no matter how much people want to go on about their “rights” and think of their cars like the Lone Ranger thought about Silver (Hi Yo, Toyota! Away!) Your freedom to feel the surge of adrenalin and roar up the Autostrada or I-15 (near Butte, boy, that’s a place made for 100 mph) ends at my bumper, maybe even my rear-view mirror if you’re flashing me with those damn Xenon bulbs and causing retinal damage. Yeah, you may crunch that M3 and have a bad day for the rest of your life, but how about those of us who hit the ditch/verge to avoid your ass or pay the taxes for the rescue teams? Or who pay higher insurance bills because you want an infantile rush every time you lane-hop on the Santa Monica Freeway or the M25? (Or you, Pappy, in that Mercury Marquis going 30 mph on I-95 south of Jacksonville? Still able to pass the eye test, huh?) <BR> <BR>Approve autobahn speeds in the US? Hell, no. Make getting a driving license as hard as getting a secondary school diploma? At least. Maybe this could be taken up by the European Parliament, too, since they seem pretty comfy about regulating everything else well into the ozone. <BR>

John, I respectfully disagree with you about not being able to generalize about drivers. While I've only driven in France (Provence), I can assure you that I've NEVER seen people hog the passing lane on the autoroutes there like they do on freeways in the U.S. (or, specifically the Seattle area where I live.)

Capo, I have, in Provence and even in Italy, where one would assume they wouldn't live long enough to be observed by overseas visitors. And I generalize, too, especially when it comes to our fellow Washington state drivers, or worse, our Oregonian neighbors, for whom the idea of turn signals is a communist plot. Or Portuguese drivers, who should have been the subject of Freud's PhD dissertation. But those generalities are actual fact, of course, not just one traveler's opinion...

In Germany, drivers are taught during their driver's ed that you cannot pass a car on the right and they can be fined for doing so. The US does not have this law and it will take at least a generation to change. In Texas we have signs saying "Slower drivers keep right" and sometimes it works.

I am german and Ican tell you that in <BR>germany you can get punished if you block the left lane by low. There is even police on the autobahn controling <BR>that. <BR>

Here's the mother of all roads regulations: <BR> <BR>"Travelling in India is an almost hallucinatory potion of sound, spectacle and experience. It is frequently heart-rending, sometimes hilarious, mostly exhilarating, always unforgettable - and, when you are on the roads, extremely dangerous. <BR>Most Indian road users observe a version of the Highway Code based on an ancient text. These 12 rules of the Indian road are published for the first time in English. <BR>ARTICLE I <BR>The assumption of immortality is required of all road users. <BR>ARTICLE II <BR>The following precedence must be accorded at all times. In descending order, give way to: cows, elephants, heavy trucks, buses, official cars, camels, light trucks, buffalo, Jeeps, ox-carts, private cars, motorcycles, scooters, auto-rickshaws, pigs, pedal rickshaws, goats, bicycles (goods- carrying), handcarts, bicycles (passenger-carrying), dogs, pedestrians. <BR>ARTICLE III <BR>All wheeled vehicles shall be driven in accordance with the maxim: to slow is to falter, to brake is to fail, to stop is defeat. This is the Indian drivers' mantra. <BR>ARTICLE IV <BR>Use of horn (also known as the sonic fender or aural amulet): Cars (IV,1,a-c): Short blasts (urgent) indicate supremacy, ie in clearing dogs, rickshaws and pedestrians from path. Long blasts (desperate) denote supplication, ie to oncoming truck, "I am going too fast to stop, so unless you slow down we shall both die". In extreme cases this may be accompanied by flashing of headlights (frantic). Single blast (casual) means "I have seen someone out of India's 870 million whom I recognize", "There is a bird in the road (which at this speed could go through my windscreen)" or "I have not blown my horn for several minutes." Trucks and buses (IV,2,a): All horn signals have the same meaning, viz, "I have an all-up weight of approximately 12.5 tons and have no intention of stopping, even if I could." This signal may be emphasized by the use of headlamps (insouciant). Article IV remains subject to the provision of Order of Precedence in Article II above <BR>ARTICLE V <BR>All manoeuvres, use of horn and evasive action shall be left until the last possible moment. <BR>ARTICLE VI <BR>In the absence of seat belts (which there is), car occupants shall wear garlands of marigolds. These should be kept fastened at all times. <BR>ARTICLE VII <BR>Rights of way: Traffic entering a road from the left has priority. So has traffic from the right, and also traffic in the middle. Lane discipline (VII,1): All Indian traffic at all times and irrespective of direction of travel shall occupy the centre of the road. <BR>ARTICLE VIII <BR>Roundabouts: India has no roundabouts. Apparent traffic islands in the middle of crossroads have no traffic management function. Any other impression should be ignored. <BR>ARTICLE IX <BR>Overtaking is mandatory. Every moving vehicle is required to overtake every other moving vehicle, irrespective of whether it has just overtaken you. Overtaking should only be undertaken in suitable conditions, such as in the face of oncoming traffic, on blind bends, at junctions and in the middle of villages/city centres. No more than two inches should be allowed between your vehicle and the one you are passing - and one inch in the case of bicycles or pedestrians. <BR>ARTICLE X <BR>Nirvana may be obtained through the head-on crash. <BR>ARTICLE XI <BR>Reversing: no longer applicable since no vehicle in India has reverse gear. <BR>ARTICLE XII <BR>The 10th incarnation of God was as an articulated tanker." <BR>

Another common thing that one encounters here in the USA with drivers is this one: you're driving along on a road at the speed limit and a car suddenly pulls out into your lane from the right out of a driveway or business <BR>and he/she pulls out right in front of you so you have to put on the brakes to avoid hitting them. 100% of the time when that happens I look in my rear view mirror right afterwards and sure enough, there are *no cars* behind me as far as I can see. So this idiot pulls right out in front of me and makes me almost hit him and behind me the road is totally clear. But could he wait 10 seconds for me to pass his location before he pulls out and almost causes an accident? Nah. That's drivers in the USA.