redheads

Hi Fodorites!
We are going to be in Germany/Austria/Prague in September. So far our itinerary looks like this. We would be grateful for any comments or suggestions - particularly for sights or restaurants where we are staying (modest budget). We like to get a sense of the people in the areas we stay and to see sites like churches, museums and small towns. We also like to take leisurely walks in the countryside.

Day 1 - arrive in Frankfurt - pick up car in Kelsterbach (to save airport surcharges) and drive to Wurzburg. Overnight at Hotel Alter Kranen.
Day 2 - tour Wurzburg and Rothenburg. Overnight in Rothenburg at Hotel Gerberhaus
Day 3 - continue down Romantic Road to Nordlingen. Overnight in Nordlingen at Kaiserhof Hotel Sonne.
Day 4 - drive to Dachau for tour and then to Fussen to Alstadt Hotel Zum Hechten.
Days 5 and 6 - tour Fussen area, including castles (is it OK to do both major castles in one day?)
Days 7-10 our plan is to wander through the areas of the Tyrol and Berchtesgaden staying at Zimmer Frei along the way and stopping for as long as feels comfortable. We may take a day in Salzburg.
Days 11-12 stay in Gasthof Furberg near St. Gilgen relaxing and exploring the area of St. Gilgen and St. Wolfgang.
Day 13 transfer to Hallstat (Braugasthof) so we can experience an afternoon and evening in that town.
Days 14-16 slowly make our way to Vienna, with time in Melk. (Anything we should not miss along this route?)
Day 17 - drop the car in Vienna and take the train to Prague. (Has anyone taken the train on this route? Any advice? It would appear that we can catch a train at around 11:00 and arrive in Prague at about 4:00. How far in advance should we purchase our tickets?)
Days 17-22 in Prague at Apartment Zatec.
Day 23 - take train back to Vienna.
Days 23 to 28 in Vienna at Opernring Apt 1
Day 29 - fly home.

We may ask questions later about the Prague and Vienna portions of our trip, but at this time we are most interested in any comments about the remainder of our itinerary and special sites and eating places along the way. We would also appreciate any suggestions for a place to stay just east of Vienna for the last night we have the car so that it will be an easy drive into Vienna when we need to turn the car in.

Vielen Dank!!

Redheads

tcreath

Sounds like a wonderful trip! You will be going through some gorgeous areas! I will try to comment on a few sections of your itinerary.

St. Gilgen and Hallstatt are about forty minutes apart. I can understand your thoughts on wanting to linger, but I personally prefer to stay put for longer than a night or two, as its usually easier and less time-consuming. I would just pick a place (St. Gilgen is a great location) and just daytrip to Hallstatt. You could easily spend the whole day and evening there and get back to St. Gilgen in the evening. In my opinion the two locations are just way to close to justify breaking up the nights.

When you are in Melk definitely check out some of the other towns along the Wachau Valley, as they are charming. There are some great cafes, restaurants and wineries throughout the towns, as well as the famed ruined castle of Richard the Lion-hearted . We rented bikes and biked from Krems to Spitz and it was one of the highlights of our vacation. We parked the car at Krems, picked up the bikes and biked to Spitz, and then took the boat back to Krems to get our car.

We spent a week near Berchtesgaden and had a wonderful time. The area is worth at least a few days if you have it. There are some great restaurants in the area, including my favorite, the restaurant at the Hotel-Gasthof Nutzkaser. You meander your way up through the mountains and wonder if you are lost from time to time but finally you find it, see the huge windows in the dining room, and realize that it was totally worth all the effort. The views are outrageous, and the food it pretty good as well. Its in Ramsau, not far from Berchtesgaden. http://www.hotel-nutzkaser.de/engl/index.html

It is very easy to do both major castles in one day, and is probably preferred. You will see Hohenschwangau first, and then Neuschwanstein. Your tickets will give you more than adequate time between each castle, and it takes less than half a day to see both.

Good luck!
Tracy

bettyk

For the Tirol portion of your trip, I can highly recommend Hall in Tirol and the Gasthof Badl located right on the River Inn. I think our room was around 63 Euro for a nice double. It's a little rustic but the location is fantastic and their restaurant is also very good. It is just a short walk over the River across the pedestrian bridge to the old town of Hall.

Hall is highly recommended on Fodors for good reason so please check it out.

tcreath

I highly agree with Betty. We stopped in Hall for an afternoon on the way to Appenzell, Switzerland last year and fell in love with the town. Its a small, charming town in a beautiful location. We originally planned to visit Innsbruck but were not very impressed so skipped it in favor of Hall. I would love to go back and spend a few nights there.

Tracy

JN

You have a lot of one night stays, which waste lots of time packing/ unpacking and schlepping. I find such trips exhausting and prefer fewer stops and a less break-neck pace. Consider breaking your trip up into several 3-nighters and doing day trips.

--E.g., on Day 1 you could visit Wuertzburg and continue on to Rothenburg, staying there 3 nights with day trip to Nordlingen.

--then several nights in Fuessen area

--then several near Berchtesgaden/Salzburg, with day trips to Hallstat, St. Gilgen etc.

ira

Hi red,

I lean towards JN's suggestion.

Nordlingen is only 1 hr from Rothenburg.

It's only 2 hr from Nordlingen to Dachau to Fussen.

Hallstatt is less than an hour from St. Gilgen.

You can't buy your ticket online from www.oebb.at for your train from Vienna to Prague.

Try www.raileurope.com or www.euraide.com

You can buy them at any train station in Austria as well.

Enjoy your visit.

basingstoke1

Last October/November we travelled R/T Prague - Vienna. Took the bus out and train back just to see the difference. Both took about the same time (3+ hours)with the bus being about 20 minutes longer. That difference however was made up by the bus arriving in central Vienna (City Hall) while the train was further out. The train - 2nd class - was more comfortable than the bus, but the bus was fine and less than half the cost. We bought tickets the same day with no problem. If taking the train to Prague, be careful about the taxi to your apartment. City cab and AAA taxi are OK. Others may be suspect. Better yet, if possible, have your apartment contact arrange for a car to pick you up. Costs a bit more, but IMO worth it.

Larryincolorado

If you do go from Vienna to Prague by train, I would get tickets from Austrian Rail as soon as possible after arriving in Austria. Don't get your tickets stateside, as you will pay double or more.

It is a little difficult to find the fare from Vienna to Prague, because neither Austrian or Czech rail gives the complete fare. They only show the fare to/from the last stop in their country. However, Wien to Hohenau is €13,30 from Austrian Rail, and Breclav to Prague is €15,13 (430 Kc). That leaves about a 15 minute "fare gap" (out of 4:17) at the border, but that shouldn't change the fare that much. It should be a little more than €28 or $36. It might cost a little more from Vienna to Prague, but Czech rail will probably charge less coming back.

logos999

Larry is absolutely right here. Tickets for travelling inside Czech Rep. cost a fraction of what you'd pay across borders to Austria or Germany. Always get your ticket to the last stop before the border, then buy another.

Larryincolorado

logos,

I think you mean buy your ticket to the first stop AFTER the border, then buy the ticket onward.

logos999

Yes, depends which direction you're going

redheads

Thanks to all of you for your comments.

As far as "one night stands" are concerned, we tend to have less energy at the end of the day and more in the morning. So, if we are to enjoy an evening in Hallstat, for example, it's easier for us to spend 15 minutes extra in the morning to pack than an hour driving back to St. Gilgen. Also, we're doing the overnight in Nordlingen to shorten the driving time the next day to Dachau and then to Fussen.
Initially we had planned not to have reservations for all of these nights and to explore Zimmer Frei, but the first week of our plan is fairly set and we felt we'll enjoy not having to worry each day where we can spend the night. We hope to be a bit more serendipitous in the days when we don't have reservations.
We appreciated the comments about the train to Prague and the alternative of the bus. We will be returning the car to the downtown Auto Europe office in Vienna at Schubertring 9. Does anyone know if this is close to either the bus station or the train station?
The return fare quoted on the Rail Europe website from Vienna to Prague is $268 US for the two of us. Larryincolorado, you seem to be suggesting about 145 Euros as the applicable fare. That's quite a difference!
One book we read indicated that there are no toilets on European buses. Is that true? If the time is similar and the cost is far lower, it would seem to make sense to try the bus. Any other comments?
Thanks for the comments about Melk, Hall , and Berchtesgaden. They're definitely on our list to explore.
Again, thanks to all of you for taking time to reply. We appreciate your help.
redheads

basingstoke1

We took the bus from Prague to Vienna and the train back. The bus arrived in Vienna at the Rathaus - there was no station as such. I do not know if it leaves from the same place but would guess not since there did not seem to be a place to buy a ticket. Prague to Vienna by bus was about $20-30 if I recall correctly. I do not remember the train fare back but it was way less that the ones that you mentioned (2nd class). I'll ask DW in the morn if she recalls. The train left from the Sudbanhof. As mentioned, we bought our seats the same day. The ticket seller said that reservations were a waste of money that day (end of Oct). There were plenty of empty seats.

Larryincolorado

I have no doubt that $268 is what you would pay for the tickets from Rail Europe. I also have no doubt that the price from Rail Europe is much higher than what you would by over there.

Larryincolorado

I don't think most people familiar with fares from stateside vendors like RailEurope vs. those available in Europe take RailEurope seriously as a source of ticket prices.

For example, go to the Czech Rail website, www.cd.cz/static/eng, and look up the fares from Praha hl.n. to Brno hl.n. That is entirely within the Czech Republic. For F875, which runs from Prague at 8:17 to Brno at 11:27, Czech Rail charges 294 Kc (Czech Koruna) for a second class ticket. According to Oanda.com, that is about $13.23. Rail Europe charges $50 for the same ticket.

For EC279 (RailEurope calls it something else), which leave Prague at 7:37 and arrives in Brno at 10:15, the fare is 354 Kc. According to Oanda.com, that is $15.93. RailEurope sells tickets on the same train for $71.

Larryincolorado

It isn't just for the Czech Republic. For a 2nd class ticket on the 9:28 Eurocity (EC63) from Munich, Germany, to Salzburg, Austria, German Rail charges €26, about $33. The price for the same ticket from RailEurope is $59.

yildy

Dear Vielen, except for one or two areas, we have done car trip (Jun-2004)of your route and we learnt that one night stay at each place was not a good choice. 2 or 3+ nights in key areas should have been a minimum. Enjoy your trip and let's hear from you upon your return including your lodging experiences.

basingstoke1

After asking our companions, their recollection is that one way Vienna to Prague was under $60 and that the bus to Vienna from Prague was closer to $20.

suze1

I'd be interested in knowing how you liked Gasthof Furgerg in St. Gilgen, I'm also looking at this hotel for our stay. Did you make the reservation directly with the hotel? It looks nice on their web site.

AisleSeat

I sounds like a great trip. You should have a great time. The one thing you are skipping that might be worth a second thought is Munich. There is a lot more to Munich than Dachau. Steal a night from somewhere else for beer at the Hofbrau Haus and dinner at the Augustiner.