attire in Madrid
 

We are going to Madrid post cruise in late August. I understand it will be hot and am wondering about acceptable day time and night time dress. Are shorts ok in the day?

This is about the fourth time today. In European cities - and indeed in most world capitals including New York - local adults do not wear shorts in downtown areas. Shorts are considered correct wear for outdoor/athletic activities or for cruises/resorts - not for city streets. If the shorts are some form of "skorts' they may be acceptable. Anything shorter or more fitted will definitey make you stand out. No one will say anything or stop you going anywhere (except possibly a nicer restaurant) but you will be noticed.

For dinner in a nice restaurant preferred wear is a pretty dress or nice pants outfit for women and either a jacket (no tie) or stylish shirt for men (not a polo).

It's a big tradeoff, you will see lots of people in shorts and most will be pegged as Americans.

We found the Madrillenos to be very well dressed both during the day and in the evenings. Although it will be hot, you'll be well off wearing your cruisewear. If it gets to hot simply sit in a shady outdoor cafe and have a cool glass of sherry!

Brian

Hypothetically speaking who will be telling you off it you look like a brash American tourist?

People won't stare at you, they are not interested in you, if you wear a black bin liner or a Chanel suit you will receive no more attention.

Madrid is an huge city; millions of people go about their daily business, and could not give one iota what you are attired in. Where shorts, walk around in a bikini who gives a blank?

Cruises are so dreadfully naff anyway, wear whatever you wish, it makes no difference.

Why are people so ignorant? How can dresscodes possibly exist in public places? The very fact that a place is public implies that it is open to anyone and everyone. Even Muslim countries would not care if you walked around in public places wearing shorts. Europe is cosmopolitan, you will see people in every state of attire, do not for one moment consider you are special, you aren't. News for you too: You can wear shorts anytime of day as well! If you dine/drink/party at smart places then of course there is the standard smart to smart casual dresscode, but this is a private, not public place - take note of the difference. There is no need to ask about dresscodes in public places anywhere in the world, your ignorance and small time way of thinking embarrasses not only you, but the reader too. Enjoy Madrid, don't have sleepless nights over your shorts.

If you don't give a pa-tutty about how you look or are perceived, go ahead and wear shorts, but you'll be identified as a tourist and as an American. With politics as they are today, I much prefer to blend in with the crowd. People in Madrid are generally well-dresssed. Personally I think a bit of decorum is fine.One thing I've learned living in hot climnates is that shorts are not the coolest option for women. Try a skirt in a light weight fabric. Much cooler than having ones shorts stick to the body.

With any city of more than ten people, there will be badly dressed and well dressed people. Some Spaniards wear shorts, some Spaniards don't. You'll be identified as an American the moment you open your mouth so don't waste your time disgusing what is impossible to hide.

An American (or virtually any other nationality) believing they can look Spanish is akin to a fat size 20 thinking that slipping into a size 6 makes her look thin.

Deeply though it pains me to come close to agreeing with m_kingdom...

In real cities - it's up to New York whether it really is as narrow-minded and provincial as its boosters make it sound - people wear what they want. Period

If you want to wear shorts in Madrid, the Madrilenos have several gazillion better things to do than worry about it.

If you want to wear a suit and tie to walk down the Via Manzoni in Milan in the middle of August, the few Milanesi not philandering with their friends' spouses at the mountains or beach will also care not a gramme of saffron in a risotto what you're wearing.

Stadtluft macht frei. Whether it's religion, clothes or political opinions, real cities are all about tolerance.

Invest your energy into finding nice things to see and decemt places to eat.

m_kingdom -

Thank you so much for your lovely tirade. I am so sorry that I must disagree. Any one wandering the streets wearing a bin liner in any city will surely be noticed, commented upon - and possibly taken into custody for their own protection. (Or perhaps not where you are. Is that the reason for your behavior?)

Thr original poster asked if shorts are OK, meaning as far as I can tell, will many people be wearing them - not if they would be arrested for wearing them.

Since these questions about attire drive you into such frenzies of surliness - not to say inanity - why don't you just stop reading them?

Separately, I know many people disagree with my POV about shorts in cities - and perhaps this is just the native New Yorker fighting a rear guard action for a little sophistication and good taste - ordinarily I hold the most liberal of opinions - but it seems to me time that the line be drawn somewhere - or soon we will have people going to church in swimsuits and funerals in the altogether.

(Recently I was on jury duty and a young woman was sent home to change her Britney-like attire - butt and stomach hanging out along with a good bit of her upper assets. She was highy indignant and really didn't understand why she wouldn't be allowed to come to court looking like a $10 hooker.)

My dear, I'm most surprised that you can tell that she was like a 10$ hooker, I'm afraid I'm not nearly so aware of the pricing of such services myself.

Correct attire for funerals, weddings and suchlike is common sense, as is the fact that no public place, i.e. a street anywhere, can possibly have a dresscode of any sort.

nytraveler,

Count this former San Franciscan in! Dressing appropriately in public places other than the beach and resorts seems to be an increasingly odd notion for many people. Many of those same people don't seem to know how to behave in places like theaters, concert halls, and the like, either. I've about given up going to the movies, as it's hard to follow the dialogue on the screen because the person sitting next to me is explaining it all to a group of friends.

Treysgranny:

To answer the "spirit" of your querry I reply YES. Shorts are ok in the day.

While in Madrid I wore shorts but I think some Fodor Folks have a somewhat negative "image" of what that MIGHT look like for them while they travel so let me share what my wearing shorts on vacation and in Madrid lookes like.

I was raised in the fashion industry.
Beauty and grooming was right up there next to God. God was first!

Currently I have six very large closets of color coordinated, classic and beautiful clothing. My choice as an adult.

I bring as many suitcases as I must to carry all my stuff while I travel.

My attitude about the baggage charges are if you can not pay do not play.

My shorts for vactaion travel are made by Liz Claiborne, Facconable, or another designer like say, pick a name, because I like the cut, pattern and the fabric.

I usually wear a silk blend of fabric when in warm cultures. My top is usually of the same print or cut and is made of very nice fabric and is quite stylish.

I am fortunate that I can wear new and fashionable sandals while sightseeing such as Manolo Blahniks, Jimmy Choos or Ferragamos which I do.

Of course a fresh and professional pedicure is a part of this package.

I am meticulous with my hair, not fussy, and I stay away from pony tail scrugies and casual hair accessories like that when I am not in my hotel room.

I do wear large sun hats in various colors, with the requisite "Jackie O" style sun glasses on occassion.

My baseball caps stay at home. I love sports so I have enough caps to start a small store.

I add jewelry that is subtle but stunning and classy.

I have never had a problem with how I dress while on travel. I have been asked where I shop and given other compliments while on vacation by tourist and by the locals.

A great smile and a confident attitude are also the best accessories that you can wear anywhere.

While in Madrid you can wear nice sun dresses with a stylish and comfortable heel or low slip on mule.

At night simply add a light weight shawl or beautiful scarf for style.

If you go with long slacks make sure they are on the slightly dressy side. You may wear a tailored and well fitted halter top, designer t-shirt say a Saint John by Marie Gray and you can go with a spotless white canvas classic tennis shoe such as a Keds.

Tods also makes a classic slip on that is fashionable and comfortable.

Be careful with Capri pants. Some are cheaply made and they look it. Capri pants are also "fad" style clothing like say Cargo pants. If you do go with a Capri pant make sure you buy or wear the best cut, color and kind. Be sure to bring a "whole" look to this pant. Capri pants are not kind to those who are not smaller than say a true size 10...They can see you...

Your cruise clothes, depending on your style, will also be excellent for your time in Madrid.

I will add that the women of Spain, especially in Madrid are nothing short of beautiful. They take great pride in looking like a million bucks and yes, that does mean that they are overwhelmingly thin.

Enjoy your time, enjoy your packing and dress the way that you want to.

I surely did.

I am a Fodor poster who is not in the "Pack Light" club. I have no reason or inclination to do that. I have gotten around just fine through all my years of "heavy" packing.

I get lots of help if I need it if I am travelling solo. I get offers for lots of help while travelling even when I do not...It has to be the megawatt smile!

I simply was not raised to bring 4 of this and 5 of that and mix them up to get 20 outfits...YUCK!

Now some of you do this well so keep up the good work.

I could NEVER bring one or two good walking shoes...have you ever seen the walking shoes mentioned in some of these travel post on the feets of any fashionable or stylish woman?

These "good" walking shoes such as an ECCO is straight and simple butt-ugly, TO ME, and goes with nothing in any of my six closets and dresser drawers...

Now some women can pull this off and could care less. Not me.

Again, amongst other things, I was raised to pay attention to the details of what I look like...

BTW, I am a public person so I have no choice in the matter.

I also completely enjoy looking and dressing well. My other sister lives a very remote and non public life. But, when we travel together she goes back to how we were raised...to look great in public.

I bring two outfits with complete accessories for everyday of my travels no matter what or where I am going.

I bring many fun and pretty nighties, lingere, swimsuits, multiple pairs of georgous shoes, jewelry, make-up and a host of beauty products such as bubble baths, bath salts, shower gels, lotions, parfumes and so on.

Treysgranny: Do your thing. Thanks for inviting me to share my thing.

Happy Packing,
Oaktown Traveler

Funny i can't ever remember seeing a Spainiard in shorts especially in Madrid. Certainly no one is going to harass you because you wear shorts, but I think you will be a bit of an anomaly.
The main reason for not 'looking like an American i.e. tourist' is to not be an obvious target for thieves and pickpockets. And sorry m-kingdom but in Muslim countries they do care if you run around wearing shorts.

m_kingdom

Sorry again. But as usual both your facts and reasoning are incorrect. A lot of public places have dress codes. As far as I know nudity is not allowed in the strreet anywhere, and many public beaches expressly forbid toplessness and tiny thong swimsuits.

And if correct attire for church and funerals is common sense why isn't correct attire in the street "common sense" (nothing so far seems to induce many people to use any sense at all as far as what they wear in public places).

For major cities like London, Madrid, Paris, Rome, Venice....

Wear what you like, I live in London people walk around in everything from men in Richard James suits smoking Treasurer's to men in Oxfam suits smoking Richmond. Women in Chanel suits and Blahnik's to women in Oxfam suits smoking Richmond. Wear shorts not one person could give a blank to be honest with you. Coming off of a cruise ship, you could be nothing except American, be proud to be "living the American dream", don't shy away from your roots.

To m_kingdom - Why in the world does it bother you so much that someone would want to dress appropriately, yet comfortably in a foreign country? Seems like a fairly normal question to me.

What annoys me is that people, namely Americans assume that just because it is Europe different dresscodes apply. As long as you are not offending public decency, shorts are not included in this, there is nothing to worry about. I cannot believe people really are so ignorant. I live in London, as I'm sure you are aware, people walk around in rags, others in super 150 suits, there are so many people not one person cares. Small time Americans please take note - not one person cares!

Well, treysgranny it looks like you have set off the perennial fight amongst Fodorite travelers -- what to wear?

I have worn shorts in Athens and Amsterdam, and have the photos to prove it. Shorts are wrong in these cities. Normally I wear slacks and a sportscoat in the city. If the sportscoat becomes too warm I take it off and sling it over my shoulder. My recommendation in any European city is to dress well. Skip the shorts. And if you wear shorts in Madrid or any other non-resort city you will notice that the panhandlers are better dressed than you.

m.kingdom seems to be sharpening his blade for all who dare disagree with him. Fortunately his British kingdom no longer rules the world. Being brash is his domain, not that of Americans. Why does he bring up dress codes? There are no dress codes except in business establishments. I think that m.kingdom just got out on the wrong side of bed yesterday. And it's obvious that he has not been in a strict Islamic country.

The OaktownTraveler's letter is beyond ridiculous. I've seen this kind of person only once. She was on a TGV from Geneve to Paris and the lady in question was a royal Saudi princess with about 20 female slaves and a man servant. Their luggage occupied half of a freight car.

Treysgranny, read and believe the posts of nytraveler and historytraveler. You won't go wrong. In hot sunny places a white long sleved shirt and loose slacks will keep you cooler anyway because they keep the sun off your skin.

This is a completely gratuitous point for m_kingdom having nothing to do with the original question - sorry, all, but I simply can't resist.

If you want to talk about people looking out of place and badly dressed, perhaps we can address the subject of the British in the Dordogne - those who rent a "villa" there on holiday and those who think they live there as expats, but who cannot ever blend into the society there because of "languge" and other "issues." Let's face it - the British are even worse than the Americans when it comes to learning and trying out foreign languages, even though they are much closer to other countries where foreign languages are spoken.

I can't tell you how many times I have stumbled across some Brit clad in what I would call a safari outfit, replete with sun hat, in the market in Le Bugue, claiming loudly - much more loudly than any French or American would - "Clarissa, dear, I've got the claret - four vracs at only 3 euros a vrac. We can drink ourselves silly by teatime, dear!"

SPARE me!!!!

Of course, m_kingdom would never be caught dead in the Dordogne, as it boasts only one Michelin-starred establishment, and if he ventured there, he'd not even get a real taste of the region, as it is not representative of the place. So I guess I'm in luck.

But if you want to see British people clad in truly horrific clothing, the Dordogne in summer is the place to do it!

I have been in a Muslim country, and I think some folks there do "care" if you walk around in public places in shorts. I have not been in the most conservative/fundamentalist Muslim countries, but from what I've heard, you can't wander around some of those public places in shorts -- it certainly wouldn't be a good idea, in any case, and even though some Germans did in the one I was in, they were certainly noticed, and not in a positive manner. It would especially not be a great idea for females, as it was bad enough for me even though I was wearing a calf-length skirt and blouse with mid-length sleeves. Even then, I was the subject of some male harassment and agression. NO, I did not do anything to cause it.

As for mKingdoms idea that "There is no need to ask about dresscodes in public places anywhere in the world", sorry, but that is certainly not true.

StCirq, I'm disappointed in you! I've always admired your knowledgeable posts but am pretty disappointed you've sunk to m_kingdon's level and taken the opportunity to slate the Brits. It's so easy to castigate an entire nation on the basis of a few - something I hope I don't ever resort to doing about Americans. And please please don't lump m_kingdom in with the rest of us. His/her attitude is an embarrassment to us all. I cringe every time I see another pointless tirade.

And as an aside, I've been reading these boards was donkey's years, and still don't know what Capri pants are.