<i>I cannot remember a single meal about which I remember someone being inappropriately dressed and yet I am certain that I have been to hundreds of such meals everywhere in the world.</i>

Some of the claims about never having seen jeans in certain restaurants <cough, Gramercy Tavern, cough, Union Square Cafe, cough> suggest that even the most formal among us don't actually pay as much attention to their dining companions as they want to make us believe. Honestly, when even those that proclaim to care are so obviously oblivious to the world around them, why should anyone else care?

<i>colduphere on May 17, 11 at 3:25pm
Brilliant work spaarne.</i>

Just an idle diversion for the afternoon.

equivocal
Denim jacket with tuxedo pants

I'd like to add my name to the 'enjoying the show' list. Thank you all for cheering up my afternoon!

Spaarne, I'm a bit unamused, being placed in the "equivocal" camp.

My profile photo clearly shows that I wear a jacket!

So there!

<i>Peter_S_Aus on May 17, 11 at 5:47pm
Spaarne, I'm a bit unamused, being placed in the "equivocal" camp.
My profile photo clearly shows that I wear a jacket!
So there!</i>

My apologies. I'll see how many other errors are found and correct the list in a day or two.

Peter_S_Aus,
I see that you also wear a fedora and a scarf. I'm with you on both. They are very practical for much of the year in Europe. Unfortunately I forgot my fedora when getting off a train in Edinburgh.

I think that it would also give me some street cred (particularly with NYFS) if one were to note that both coat and scarf are cashmere - although the coat is some 12 years old, as evidenced by the somewhat generous lapels.

The fedora is made of genuine rabbit fur.

In spite of the pullover being genuine hand knitted Merino wool (so down market, so ordinary) I do believe that I can hold my head up high in the nicest restaurants.

I think the main problem with this thread, and internet message boards in general, is that you seldom get the complete picture behind the original post, or that of many of the responders.

Many people travel with senile partners, or people with other mental challenges, who really have lost the ability to make decisions as full adults.A lot of them post on Fodor's without revealing that. Ordinarily, when a grown man decides what to pack, it's not an issue -- so that's why you see some people here vehemently arguing there is nothing wrong with Mimar's husband's adult choices.

But some people are responding from the basis of their experience of living with senile spouses, who don't know enough to buy a sweater if it turns out they need one, or haven't learned to use the internet to read a weather report. Or maybe the basis for some of these posts is a throwback to the kind of mostly now passe marriage of wifey-bosses-hubby-and-treats-him-like-a-child. My great-grandmother was like that (with everybody actually. She didn't have a life.)

It never occurs to me to tell my husband what to pack or wear. I figure if he gets cold, he'll buy a jacket or sweater en route. I'd be rather startled if he told me if I didn't wear a dress to dinner he wouldn't dine with me. I think my husband looks great not wearing anything, and I'm happy to be seen with him no matter where we go.

Now we can all reveal how our spouse looks with nothing on. I have heard about this sort of behaviour on the internet but not experienced it before.

Mine looks fine, but I'm not willing to dine with him naked in France or Italy.

No, no, no, Spaarne! A thousand times "no".

I gave away my last pair of jeans when I turned 50 and have eliminated khakis for European travel since I tuned 60.

But I don't dress like French political or business people, either. In fact, I will admit to wearing a t-shirt (black) with a blazer (black) to restaurants in Paris. But I wouldn't have worn a t-shirt without a blazer. :-)

I would like to know how old nycfoodsnob is because she sure sounds "of a certain age". ;)


<<And when you're 60 years old, you realize that other people were never thinking of you at all. You can save yourself a lot of grief by not waiting until you're 60 years old to stop worrying about what other people think.<<

Alot of you need to realize that this is true.

And a lot of you need to realize that some of the people who admit to dressing up for dinner are dressing for themselves, for a bit of fun and glamour, to make an occasion seem special, not out of 'vanity' and not to 'impress' other people or solicit improved service or preferential treatment. For a group who insist that you shouldn't judge by appearance (and thus, type of clothing doesn't matter) there seems to be an awful lot of 'judging' of those who DO dress up.

Good point, RM67!

I never realized dressing simply and appropriately was a flaw until I read some of the remarks on this thread.

I'd love to add something to fuel this funny discussion a bit more, but unfortunately I don't care how other people dress.

I do care, though, how people behave in restaurants.

Unfortunately, the style and price tag of both the attire and the meals do not necessarily relate with the level of proper behaviour.

Business jocks in the best and smartest suits money can buy roaring in their iPhones (4 series, of course) while wolfing down the food like a fugitive on the run.
Or the picture-perfect "Sex and the City" girl killing the smell of any food within 20 yards with the gallon of perfume she must have bathed in.
Or the chatty bunch of "luncheon ladies" talking about whatever body part of theirs that has experienced surgical enhancement. Or any body functions that need medical attention.

So if someone is capable to keep his/her voice, smell, body odours to his/her own table, and is capable to get the food from the plate to mouth in a civilized manner, I am more than satisfied.

Style, character, and manners are not primarily a matter of clothing - neither are good looks and a nice attitude (or the absence of having an attitude).

I will be in London and Paris in 2 weeks. I will not wear jeans, nor sneakers to dinner. If someone did, I would not even notice nor care. I am there for me and the food, but realize that I have a personal standard of how I want to look. Others have their own standard. I would never

Some people know the good life and all that goes with it, and have class to adjust to whatever situation or environment they are out in. We can call it 'being refined'. Think Grace Kelly

Then there are those who are put into the same environment, and judge others. We'll call these arrogant and condescending. We can call them 'parvenus' or 'nouveaux riches'. Think Lilo or Jed Clampett.

I aspire for the first, but know that I can never achieve it. Personally, I would dine with (or date) a girl who doesn't dress to my liking (looks can be fixed, personality..not). If she lets me dress her, we don't stand a chance (wimp). I'm easy going and can be seen with a fashion don't.

Nor does being casually dressed automatically equal good manners, so I'm not really sure what your point is, Cowboy.

The poor old OP only asked what was considered 'appropriate' attire for a 'nice-ish' restaurant. What do most people wear to these sort of places? Not 'what do you think of people who don't dress exactly the same way as you when they go out?' which is what a fair proportion of those posting on this thread have managed to turn the debate in to.

What to wear is always a highly charged discussion on this forum. Hasn't changed in the 15 or so years I've been here. :-)

So true uhoh-busted. As soon as someone posts a sartorial question, I mentally grab the popcorn and settle in for the show. I do often feel sorry for the probably-bewildered OP, though.

Asking what is "considered appropriate" reveals a keen interest in what other people think. Therein hides vanity. The real question should be what does the OP consider appropriate, as that should be the real guide to his or her attire.

I've noticed that I can often remember talking to someone about something at the end of the day, but I may not be able to remember anything about what they were wearing. Clearly, it is not important to me. And I always dress casually, which a minority of people have a problem with (I know this because they or people they know tell me so), but I don't care about what they think, just as they shouldn't care about what I think (hopefully).