ATM Machines
 

I have 2 ATM cards for 2 bank accounts

I have called both banks and advised i will be going to Europe.

Account 1 can only be used at machines with the Maestro, Cirrus & Interac symbols

Account 2 can only be used at machines with Plus or Interac symbols.

I will be in London, Paris and various cities in Italy. Does anyone know if these symbols are prevalent (don't want to run out of money and not have access to machines)

Hi H,

I have found Maestro, Cirrus and Plus in France, the UK and Italy.

((I))

Can you get a Visa or MasterCard Debit card rather than a bank ATM? You'll have much better luck. Not a credit card that you get cash with, but a Debit card. Bank ATM's often won't work in Europe. (also see the thread "Am I Stupid or Just Confused)

Cirrus or Plus or both will work at nearly all the zillions of ATMs in Europe, including UK. Need 4-digit PIN and cards hooked to checking accounts seem to usually work, those to savings account often do not, in my experience. ATMs are the way to go - only fees usually are what your local bank charges. Tell them you're going to specific countries so they don't block incoming charges for security reasons. Best possible rate of exchange with ATMs.

Cirrus or PLUS bank cards work just fine all over Europe. I have yet to have a problem anywhere (these are very common networks associated with mastercard and visa respectively).

<Bank ATM's often won't work in Europe.> I disagree, this statement is simply not true.

Suze, that has been my experience (or, rather, that of a friend of mine) I'm glad you've had better luck. And I said often, not never.

OK, maybe I'm one of the culprits for causing some confusion. More and more -- and this is fairly recent -- if you have a bank ATM "ONLY" card, one that can't be used as a debit card, has none of those plus, cirrus, or other symbols on it, and has no VISA or MC logo on it, then you MAY have problems using it at more and more ATMs in Europe as apparently many of them are switching to VISA services to handle all their international ATM transactions. This is definitely true at bank ATMs in Belgium. We also had problems at some ATMs in Italy. If your bank issued ATM/debit card has a VISA symbol on it, I can't imagine why it wouldn't work in any ATM that has a VISA symbol.
This is why I have now switched my ATM ONLY card back to an ATM/DEBIT card. I do not expect any problems in the future.

MzPossum - I would think that the issue your friend had is the result of an individual bank, or card or PIN issue, and has nothing to do with the fact that she was using a bank card.

I am guessing that harrowgirl is Canadian as she mentions Interac - a Canadian debit system. In Canada, there is no such thing as a VISA or Mastercard debit card. VISA and Mastercard only issue credit cards in Canada. The ATM card issued by Canadian banks acts both as an ATM card, and a debit card - for use on the previously mentioned Interac system.

This being said, Canadians travelling abroad, easily withdraw cash from ATMs with their bank cards. Both Plus and Cirrus are very wide spread and harrowgirl should have no problem using either card. I use only one bank card to withdraw $ and it has worked in every machine I have ever tried in many countries around the world, be it Cirrus, Plus or a machine without either logo! If you see a machine pop in your card and give it a shot!

I didn't see Patrick's post before I submitted mine. I think I understand what he is saying - bank cards that CAN NOT be used as a debit card may cause problems. In Canada, all bank cards are also debit cards, so I don't think harrowgirl needs to worry about this.

I don't know how things work in Canada, but I think we're talking about two different things here. I wasn't talking about an ATM/debit card ISSUED by Visa. Mine is issued by Bank of America, but it still has a VISA logo on it. I wouldn't be surprised if an ATM card issued by a Canadian bank doesn't also have a VISA logo on the back along with some of those other logos.

As you said, Patrick, you don't know how things work in Canada. My bank card works at ATMs and at the point of sale for debit purchases. There is no Visa logo on it and it is not associated with any credit card company. The only logos on it are Cirrus, Maestro and Interac. Some other bamks issue cards with thePlus logo. I have never had any trouble anywhere from Egypt, to Turkey, to Western or Eastern Europe withdrawing cash.

MzPossum, I'm sorry but I feel your post gives a false impression of what *most* people find true about ATMs and European travel. Just because you have 1 friend who on 1 trip had problems, that does not make this universal advice which is valid to pass on to others without mentioning the details.

As above, the problem was more likely a glitch with her card or her own bank, having little or nothing to do with ATMs in Europe.

Hi Patrick!

I don't know exactly how the US debit cards work myself - but we do have a different debit system in Canada.

As DeeW said, Visa and Mastercard are not associated with Canadian debit cards. (I guess VISA and Mastercard actually don't issue any type of card anywhere, credit or debit - they are always issued by an associated bank . . .)

From what I understand of US debit cards, they are processed through a VISA or MC terminal in the same way as a credit card purchase, but then the $ comes out of your associated chequing account.

In Canada, there is a separate system for approving debit purchases than VISA and MC purchases, it is called Interac. Debit purchases are made with your bank card, using a PIN, and you can choose which account you want to withdraw the $ from (much like an ATM). You can not sign for a debit purchase in the way you would a credit purchase - PINs only.

Now, if you had a US VISA debit card, you could use it anywhere in the world that accepts VISA (correct me if I'm wrond there). But a Canadian bank card can only be used for debit purchases in Canada with Interac. Out of the country it is solely an ATM card.

I have a bank ATM-only card and have never had trouble using it in European ATMs in a lot of countries.

Now I remember Patrick making these statements about it being impossible to use a bank ATM card in some European countries, but I don't think he'd actually tried it. I think, in any case, he was only referring to Italy and Belgium, where I haven't been.

I was willing to believe that might be true, I never tried, only now the comment that it's just ATM cards without any network affiliation at all. Well, that isn't the way bank ATM-only cards work, they still can be used in regular networks and have to be affiliated with them. Whether a debit card or not, they should still use at least one of those regular networks. At least all of mine have, and I've been using ATM-only cards for at least 15 years.

My ATM-only card (which is definitely NOT a debit card and does NOT have any visa or MC logo on it) has the PLUS network symbol on the bank, and well as STAR which I don't know and maybe be US-only.

So, Patrick, was your original source of this information (some bank, as I recall) really saying that it was cards that didn't have any international network symbol on it, rather than it being ATM-only cards? Those are two different things.

DeeW, my point exactly. What you have is not an ATM ONLY card. It is also a debit card. My original point was about an ATM ONLY card, that can't be used as a debit card being a problem at some banks. Obviously yours should work.

The "original" source of my information was first from a manager of a bank in Belgium, after finding my ATM only card wouldn't work at any bank (I tried dozens). She informed me that "all ATMs in Belgium are managed by VISA services and if your card is not a debit card with a VISA connection, it will not work". I was told virtually the exact same thing at a Deutsche Bank in Rome by a manager there. He said that they had only switched to that a couple of weeks earlier which also explains why my card which had worked at that exact same bank the year before did not work that year.

Incidentally, Christina, it is my understanding that PLUS is owned by VISA, so if your card has a PLUS symbol on it that is essentially the same as a VISA symbol. Your card does have a connection with VISA services.

Someone else once said that CIRRUS is the symbol that is owned by Master Card. I cannot confirm that.

MY ATM only card from Bank of America did NOT have a Plus, Cirrus, Visa, or Master Card or any other symbol on it. It worked in virtually every ATM I ever tried in France, Germany, UK, Spain, Switzerland, Netherlands, and even Italy -- and believe me I've used it at a lot of ATMs. It was only in Belgium that I had a problem in 1993, and then surprisingly a couple of times a problem in Italy in 1994, where the same card had never been a problem before.

If you want to know more, here's a link which describes PLUS which is a VISA trademark.
Here is the opening paragraph:

"PLUS is Visa's global mark for automated teller machines, or ATMs. Cardholders can use the PLUS-branded ATM card issued by their financial institution to obtain 24-hour, 7-day-a-week access to their funds on deposit in local currency through the world's largest ATM network—with 945,000 ATMs in more than 150 countries."

http://www.corporate.visa.com/md/fs/consumer/plus.jsp

So it should certainly be understood that if your ATM card has a PLUS logo on it, that is the same as having a VISA logo on it --in that it CAN be used at all those ATMS throughout the world that are controlled by VISA/PLUS systems.

Thanks for the research Patrick! It appears that having the international logos on the back of your card is the key, whatever card you may have.

Like I said earlier though, don't be afraid to try machines without your logo on them. My card only has Plus on it, but I have used it at many machines without a Plus sticker or logo on it.

Yes, and as I mentioned, even though my former ATM ONLY card didn't have ANY symbols at all on it (except BofA's own logo) it still worked in almost every ATM I ever tried it in.

By the way, in Googling, I did also confirm that Cirrus is a Master Card symbol, a system for ATM's owned by Master Card.

BofA ATM cards are affiliated with the VISA network, at least in my state. It isn't a logo that makes them work, its the magnetic coding.

I recently went through this with my bank. They offered two ATM cards, one with Maestro affiliation, and the other with Mastercard (Cirrus). I asked which could be used in more ATMs, and they said Mastercard (Cirrus), by a factor of, I believe 12. So I stayed with Mastercard (Cirrus), as I don't want to waste my time looking for an ATM. I have never had the Mastercard (Cirrus) card refused by a functional ATM, but I'll keep looking.

Harrowgirl, I don't know if anyone has covered this, but at home (USA) I have the option of drawing from either checking or savings; overseas I have never seen the option of drawing from savings, so you want to be certain that your cards are hooked up to a checking account.

I have 2 ATM cards- one from Bank A, one from Bank B.
I went to two cities- one in Eastern Europe, one in Western Europe.
Two plain ATM cards.
The Bank A card worked in neither city.
The Bank B card worked in The Eastern city but not in the Western City.
It became a ritual to try the cards in every machine in every bank every day during the two weeks in Europe.
I didn't keep the pile of receipts stating something like:
<<No transaction- Try later>>
Both cards worked at home both before and after the trip.
I came home called and visited both banks.
They know nothing.
They both gave me new cards- ATM cards.
I'm going back to Europe next month.
I'll be the guy causing the delay at the metal detector with the huge bag of trinkets and beads.