Assistance with first trip to Europe
 

Hello!

My husband and I would like to babymoon/1st anniversary around Western Europe in June. We were thinking of leaving Hawaii on the 1st and leaving Europe around the 18th. We would like to fly roundtrip out of London (LHR).

We have experience traveling in Japan, but I think Europe might be a different animal.

Because it's our first trip, we aren't looking to do anything too ambitious. We'd like to stay in the following cities:

London
Paris
MAYBE somewhere in the Swiss Alps (but I honestly don't know enough about the Alps to say what city)
Somewhere in Italy (Rome? That seems to be the most popular destination.)

WIth travel time from Hawaii, we probably won't even be in London until June 3, so we're looking at 15 or 16 days.

The problem is, I'm not really sure of the best way to get to and from these cities. In Japan, you get the railpass and you're done for the entire country, but I've been reading conflicting information online about rail vs discount airlines when it comes to Europe.

I'm sure we'll be using the local trains/busses within each city we visit (will the railpass be beneficial there?)

In addition, when it comes to areas like the Alps or Italy, I'm not exactly sure where to go.

We like to sightsee, eat, and people watch. I'm thinking we'll definitely fly from Rome back to London before heading home.

Please lend me your experience and advice in terms of making this happen :)
Mahalo!

Given the limited time you have, I would do an open jaw ticket arriving in London and departing from Rome--flying back to London will probably mean losing a full day plus adding the expenses of going to and from the airports and an overnight in London.

A couple of days in Lucerne or Interlaken might be the way to experience some of the Alps.

Train tickets ordered early can mean a lower price.

Think of Europe like the USA. I doubt if you would plan a trip to NYC, Chicago, and Dallas, So, plan your trip geographically in Europe as well. Italy itself makes a nice trip for that time. Or, London, Paris, and Amsterdam could easily fill 16 days. You get the idea.

We paid large fuel cost/ fees flying through Heathrow on British Air last year. Not sure if all airlines charge this or if it has changed but check it out.

I agree with Michael on flying into one place & out of another. Any particular reason you want to fly in/out of London? Also, London has higher taxes and security fees than other airports.

I would fly into London, take the EuroStar train to Paris and then fly to Rome then home from there.

When flying from Hawaii, it is actually cheaper for us to fly in and out of London rather than flying from LIH to LHR then from Rome back to LIH. In addition, because we're from Hawaii, we actually would travel all over as the previous poster speculated because we only get to travel every few years and have to make the most of it when we do. We did both islands of New Zealand in two weeks last year by canpervanning... That's just the way we travel.

It sounds as if rail around the continent is cheaper? Should we purchase a rail pass or pay for individual tickets?

No, don't buy railpasses (well, possibly in Switzerland, but it depends on your itinerary). You'll have to familiarize yourself with the individual national rail companies.

I don't understand why when flying from Hawaii it's cheaper to do a round-trip ticket than an open-jaw (multi-city). But I'm not much familiar with Hawaii, so perhaps there's a reason. Did you actually look for multi-city flight options? It's totally different from two one-way tickets.

Aloha and congratulations on planning a trip. We have enjoyed many, many vacations in Hawaii, so I want to help if I can. Since it is such a long trip, you do need to break it up a lot. Are you going Lihue/Seattle/London? Or maybe through LA? As mentioned above, just be sure the quotes you are getting for flights include the Heathrow extra charges...and flying out of Paris might be cheaper/easier than Rome, because I know Seattle has direct to Paris options but not direct to Rome options, last I checked. You might do London/Rome/Paris in that order.

The other idea is to do London, Paris and Provence (Luberon), or London, Rome and Tuscany (Chianti), which would give you more of a diverse experience, so you don't just get cities (like doing Honolulu and Kauai for the contrast).

I would fly from London to Rome, definitely, but London to Paris could go either way. We have flown EasyJet from Rome to Paris, but there are other options.

Have a great trip, whatever you decide.

Round trip vs. open-jaw. Are you looking at the right options? I fed the dates you mentioned into www.kayak.com. For Rome return, use “multi-city”, NOT two one-way fares.

6/1 departure from LIH, 6/18 return
$1759 British Airways, LIH-(LAX)-LHR , LHR-(LAX)-LIH
$1832 American, LIH-(PHX)-(CLT)-LHR, LHR-(ORD)-(LAX)-LIH
difference = $73 pp

While it is cheaper to do round trip to LHR for this segment alone, you will have to add back tracking costs. It would not be easy to back track from Rome to London for less than $73 with checked luggage. You would also need to consume an overnight in London before flying home if you back track.

>>When flying from Hawaii, it is actually cheaper for us to fly in and out of London rather than flying from LIH to LHR then from Rome back to LIH. <<

Usually a very VERY false economy. Sure the base fare <i>might</i> be less in/out of London . . . But then you have to factor in several hundred $$$ to fly back to London plus losing a whole day of you already VERY limited time. But open jaw/multi city is seldom much more than a straight round trip.

You have so little time I would not try to do all this a . . . and especially not if you must return to LHR the night before your flight home.

I'd visit JUST Italy, or JUST London/Paris (with maybe a day trip out of each city) and a couple of days in Amsterdam.

Open-jaw for sure.
I would fly LIH-FCO (Rome). Find flight duration less than 25 hrs.
Then Rome 4 nights
Train to Bernese Oberland, Switzerland. 4 nights in Interlaken or Grindlewald or Wengen
Train to Paris 4 nights
Train to London 4 nights
Return LHR(London)- LIH

DebitNM: British Air's prices from North America to or through the UK are competitive with other airlines. A little higher here, a little lower there; that's business. They all pay airport fees, buy fuel, and calculate the final price. The bottom line is all the customer needs know.
Are you referring to the extra charges BA is notorious for inflicting on frequent-flyer tickets (with its partner American getting in on that action)? The spin-doctoring by its loyalty program is not the issue for the original poster here, nor for many other questions about standard pay-for-purchase tickets. Beyond the final purchase price, no paying customer has to cough up extra to fly through Heathrow.

Remember that the day you arrive in Europe and the day you leave are going to be wasted days. And the days you travel from city to city are also nonproductive.
I would suggest you fly into Paris, and do your tourist thing for 4 days.
Then take the Eurostar up to London--2 1/2 hr. trip. Spend 4 days there.
Fly on EasyJet.com from Gatwick to Rome and spend the balance of your time in Italy.
Making a bypass to Switzerland will be very, very expensive, and it's just simply out of the way.
If you're wanting to see the mountains, you could bypass Rome and fly from London Gatwick into Venice cheap on EasyJet.com. Do your tourist thing there and then rent a car. Head north into the Italian Dolomites--absolutely incredible mountain scenery 2 hrs. north. You might also have time to take in Florence tourist sights.
The European budget air carriers from Gatwick just open up so many cities with really cheap rates--Budapest, Prague, Vienna, Berlin, Athens and just about any place you ever want to go.
You can fly home (open jaw) from where ever you choose to visit.

Whatever flight routing you choose, I recommend you keep the outbound connections to a minimum because every time you connect somewhere you risk being delayed and/or missing a flight. On the other hand, delays on the return trip don't reduce your vacation time.

Rushing to a large number of places is not "seeing the most". Generally doing fewer places allows you to see much more (and waste less time in transit from one place to another).

Also I think you are underestimating the size of europe and the various countries. This is not like Japan - much bigger and places much farther apart.

And don;t understand the RT London thing. If you are looking at multidestination tickets (into London and out of Rome or Amsterdam or whatever) you will find it doesn;t cost any more - will probably cost less than returning to London).

Thank you for all of your feedback! You guys are right, I was looking at two one-ways and not the multi-flight option.

I really have to emphasize once again, that we are fairly determined on traveling to at least three places in Europe, regardless of the travel time. Any more than two days in one locale and it's time for us to get moving again. We just enjoy fast-paced travel much more... I think it has something to do with living in constant paradise.

We're not too worried about wasted days, as we really could travel anytime in June (I work in education and have summers off, and my husband can take up to a month off).

Now that I'm looking at the multi-city options, my thoughts have expanded!

NOW I'm thinking London->Paris->Rome->Barcelona!
So the question would be trying to find budget airfare between the four cities or trying to do it by rail.

Easy jet has good prices.

>><i>Any more than two days in one locale and it's time for us to get moving again.</i><<

IMO this <B><red>REALLY</B></red> doesn't work for places like London/Paris/Rome. London for instance - you'll have two jet lagged days . . . which three major sites (out of dozens) will you visit? Because that is really all the time you'll have. Same w/ Paris - by the time you get there you'll be over most of the jet lag so you might fit in four of the major sites.

In you first post you said >><i>we aren't looking to do anything too ambitious.</i><< . . . well, 2 days in these amazing/awesome cites is either way WAY too ambitious - or simply checking them off a list.

I'm not saying you need a week or a month in each city - but in 2 days you'll barely see anything. That is a LOT of money to spend to see next to nothing.

If I was flying all the way from HI I'd darn well want time to actually enjoy the places at least a teensy bit. And have time for a sidewalk cafe, or a river boat cruise, or just walking around and absorbing and having a casual glass of wine or a beer in a pub.

You won't have time for any of that . . . .

If I read the first post correctly, a babymoon means you are adding a pregnancy to this race around Europe, after a very long flight from Hawaii. Not knowing where you are in the pregnancy, I would also advise spending more than 2 days in each city, as in relax, stroll, enjoy the people and the scenery. 4 destinations means a lot of either train stations or airports, and the budget airlines are often removed from the city proper.

I think the OP is clear they like a good run of a holiday and we should try and help them. I assume they understand that first day is a bit lost in the hase of jet lag and that moving costs them 1/2 a day and some cash.

So, the first questions were about intercity travel. The easiest way to get from central London to central Paris is Train. Check seat61.com for all the basic details.

Between Paris, Rome, Barcelona and back to London the best is plane, but you need to know two things, not all airports are the same nor are all airlines. Generally Ryanair is to be avoided (poor customer service to say the least) and you want the airport that has good public transport to the city of your choice. For instance, London airport could be one of 5, Rome 3, Paris 2 (was 3 in 2013) as the cheaper airlines take the gullible to some airport in the next country :-). Use skyscanner to get a feel for it, words like "Easyjet" should make you feel more comfortable.

Each city has its own public transport system so London has http://www.tfl.gov.uk/ , Paris http://en.parisinfo.com/how-to-get-to-and-around-paris and http://www.ratp.fr/ etc
all easy to google up, generally if you want a page in English then tap the Union Flag and most pages will convert.

Hope all this helps

The problem is, I'm not really sure of the best way to get to and from these cities. In Japan, you get the railpass and you're done for the entire country, but I've been reading conflicting information online about rail vs discount airlines when it comes to Europe.

I'm sure we'll be using the local trains/busses within each city we visit (will the railpass be beneficial there?)>

railpasses are not the panacea they once were for many folks - not just because of discount airlines but also discounted inter-city train fares that for folks taking a relatively few train trips in a relatively few countries that course could be the cheapest way.

Flying between mega touristed cities means see mobbed tourist cities and tarmacs and airports - taking the train lets you also see the often bucolic Europe in between those tourist meccas.

European trains, at least on the Continent, now blast between most key cities at speeds of up to nearly 200 mph and there are overnight trains between just about any two cities far enough removed - save time even over flying and the cost of a night in a hotel.

The mnatra I find more and more on Fodor;s is that railpasses are NEVER a good idea anymore and IMO and IME of training around Europe with passes for decades no could be further from the truth - anyone taking several longish train rides in several countries or anyone taking lots of trains in one country (there are one-country railpasses) may well find a pass a boon.

And folks wanting flexibility to hop any train anytime as a Eurailpass still allows in most of the countries in Europe can also be key - the discounted tickets that are often hyped as a panacea for everyone are train-specific often non-changeable nor trefundable and as they are sold in limited numbers must be booked in stone weeks or months before to guarantee getting.

And if over 25 a Eurailpass is usually first-class only and IME of decades of traveling with a first-class pass for the trip of a lifetime I urge you to consider making your first train trip as relaxed as possible - first class has bigger seats, less seats per same size train car as in 2nd class (which is perfectly adequate - not a cattle car usually just that first class is much more adequate and why zillions of Europeans pay more to go first class - lots easier to stow luggage - I often put in on an empty seat near me, etc.

so there is my suggestion - to investigate railpasses and just do not pay much attention to folks who say railpasses are never a good thing - my experience tells me that is a foolish statement - do your research and come to your own conclusion.

I have no idea of what your eventual itinerary is so I am not saying a railpass is warranted but if traveling enough look them over.

some great sources to learn about European trains- www.budgeteuropetravel.com - www.seat61.com (good info on discounted tickets); www.ricksteves.com.

@bilboburgler and @PalenQ

Thank you thank you for taking the time to use your experience and answer the queries I had, rather than criticize our mini adventure. I really appreciate it!

I do believe we will fly into London, take the EuroStar from London to Paris, fly from Paris to Rome, fly from Rome to Barcelona, then fly home.

Delta has decent overnight service from Lihue to Rome with just one stop in Los Angeles. Coming back they have service from London to Lihue again through L.A.

From Rome to Barcelona there are discount flights on Vueling. And from Barcelona to Paris there is an overnight train with sleeper cars if you're interested in trying that. Then Paris to London,either Eurostar train or cheap flights on Easyjet.... ending your vacation in London.

whichairline.com is the place to check on which airlines fly cheaply between your cities. With all you're hopping around, hopefully you'll be traveling light...but remember that the low fare airlines don't include much baggage in the quoted price.

Anyway, that's the way I would do it...... Rome 5 nights, Barcelona 3 nights, Paris 5 nights and London 5 nights. If the budget allows, definitely add one night to each city to allow for transfers between cities and all the wasted days going to and fro.