Arrondissement for cheap apt. in a "nice" neighborhood
 

We may be visiting Paris next month (not sure yet) and would like to rent an apartment. We've only been to Paris once and I think we stayed in the 6th. Frankly, I can't remember. I've been reading old threads on the various arrondissements, but am now more confused than before.

Here's what I am looking for: an interesting neighborhood with small shops for real people (not just tourists), a real neighborhood with relatively easy access to public transportation, don't care about nightlife, don't need trendy, am not interested in shopping per se, a safe feeling neighborhood, some good inexpensive local restaurants, away from typical tourist areas is fine as long as the area has character, a place where walking and just getting the feel for the area would be enjoyable, and a very nice, active local street market scene. We would actually use the kitchen for some meals, so I'd like a place where I could stop in a shop (is it the charcuteries that have this?) that has some pre-made foods we could just heat up. If you 've got any thoughts on which areas so start my search in, I'd appreciate it. I started looking at VBRO but didn't really know which locales to start honing in on. It's just 2 of us and we don't want to spend a lot of money. Thanks.

I'm not really that familiar with the more "outlying" arrondissments which may fit your bill well, although lots of people on here are, but I wouldn't hesitate to recommend the rue Mouffetard area in the 5th.

On that street are lots of shops, cafes, take out foods, 2 grocery stores, lots of cheese, wine, butcher shops and, of course, wonderful fruit stands.

There are, naturally, tourists there, but lots of residents too.

go to www.beau-paris.com and check out the "rue Borrommee" apt in the 15th. 2 of us spent a week there...not big, very clean, good location and Phillipe speaks vg English. Extremely reasonable price for such a great apt. Would stay there again.

We almost rented in the 16th, last March. It is a lovely neighborhood, residential, more quiet than the 6th. Some of the apts we saw that were renting on VRBO really appealed to us.
One of our Fodorites stayed there with her husband this past year, hopefully she will see this and tell you her opinions (I do know they were quite favorable)..
I think there are many charming apts and areas in Montmarte but I don't know much at all about that area or the rentals.
We were in Paris in March, it is chilly but can be beautiful!

I thought Rue Bourbon le Chateau looked good ont here - and so reasonably priced. Great location.

Some of the nicest areas for real people in working class neighborhoods are around the following metro stations: Gambetta, Jules Joffrin, Temple, Plaisance, Félix Faure, Filles du Calvaire.

Kerouac has made some very good suggestions. Place Gambetta, in the 20th, is very nice. Great food shopping there! Beware the avenue de Pyrenees in that neighborhood, however, for an apartment, unless bedrooms are on the courtyard. There's a lot of traffic on that street, and a substantial percentage of the construction is 1960s and '70s, without soundproofing. Almost anywhere in the 11th arrondissement fits your criteria, as in the aforementioned area around Mtro Fille du Calvaire. The 15th is more upscale, without hordes of visitors.

Very refreshing suggetions here, for once I hope the 6th won't be mentioned.
If you choose Gambetta, check out the Rough Guides to Paris. I took their advice and explored the Charonne neighbourhood, which was quite interesting and different.
I don't recommend rue Mouffetard. I don't think there's a neighbourhood feeling to it, it's mainly tourists.
I walked the area around Temple and Filles du Calvaire. Interesting, too.

Kerouac, Dave, & Keren--

Thanks for the interesting suggestions. I've been having intermittent computer problems so haven't been able to do all my research yet. I have another follow-up question. When you mention working class people, are you referring to ordinary people versus the real rich, or are you referring to more of a gritty feeling neighborhood? I have to admit that I want something between gritty and lives of the rich and famous. Charm, rather than just ordinary, is also high on my list if possible. I don't mean "touristy" charm but places that would be interesting to just walk round.

http://www.private-paris.com/

I stayed in the rue Mouffetard studio. You will type a code in by a HUUUUUUUGE blue door and walk into a quiet lovely courtyard surrounded by a very old apt. building. In the mornings young women and their babies kiss their husbands goodbye. Across the very narrow street is a school and you can hear kids playing at recess. In the evenings you can hear people practicing/playing the sax and piano. Very charming.

I would second the idea of the 16th. I spent a week visiting family who were on a job posting in Paris. They had an appartment on Pierre Guerin. Twice a week there was a farmer's market at the end of their street ( I found that really neat!), there was a flower shop, a cheese shop, a butcher, a Lenotre for nice takeout, a food store (Monoprix I think), a chocolate "artist" on Rue Mozart who is rated one of the best in Paris, ATM, a nice helping of boulangeries and patissiers, easy access to metro, could do a long walk to Eiffel tower/ seine or Bois de Boulogne, quiet, very few tourists, some nice Guimard buildings to see (he designed the famous Art Nouveau metro entrances of the early century). Basically a neighbourhood with not a lot to "see", but a neighbourhood with a lot of "day to day living". The only drawback might be that you would need to take the metro to go to central Paris, and not be able to walk everywhere when the tourist bug hits you.
Hope this helps
Mike

We have stayed several times in the Bastille area & have been very pleased w/that location. Still w/in easy walking distance but much cheaper than some of the other areas.

The 20th close in to Place Gambetta fits your preference; if you stray very far away from the place you may not feel comfortable. Parts of the 11th, rue Ledru Rolin and rue Faidherbe, for example, match your criteria, as does the area around the Fille du Calvaire Metro, lower boulevard Richard Lenoir and boulvard Beaumarchais, and much else close in to Place de La Bastille. The 15th is more uniformly ordinary to bourgeoise, and the 16th more upscale yet.

There are several neighborhoods I've stayed in that are not the most expensive, and I liked -- such as in the 15th near place Charles Michels, in the 9th near Trinite/St Georges, and in the 14th arouned Alesia/Denfert or Daguerre. I did stay near Censier metro in the 5th and liked that area quite a bit (or near Gobelins), which is around Mouffetard. I stayed in that area and it is definitely a neighborhood feel. I think Keren must be referring solely to rue Mouffetard itself as there are not lots of tourists in that general residential part of Paris. Of course there are some tourists on rue MOuffetard as it's a shopping street, and I don't think I would want an apartment right ON it for noise reasons, but the neighborhood is not just tourists.

I have stayed in the 12th near the Bastille area and I didn't care for it much at all. I wouldn't go back there. I liked it least of any area I've stayed. It was just very seedy and ugly in lots of parts and I just didn't like it. Maybe if I were really young, the idea of being near some of those young clubs on rue de Lappe itself would have been appealing, but I'm not.

I also like the Passy area of the 16th very much, although it's probably not going to be as cheap, but I'd definitely stay there.

I have stayed in the 3rd/4th & 12th all in the general Bastille area which I found to be very acceptable. I believe the rue de Lappe is in the 11th, perhaps ? While interesting, not my first choice either. I guess I was referring more to the area very near the Bastille &/or between the area nearer the river, or bordering the Marais. I should have been more specific since several arrondissements kind of meet in that general area. Last time we stayed off of Rue St. Paul (in the 4th) but only a block or so from the Bastille.

SAnParis,
I agree with you and very much like the area you describe. The arrondisements are sometimes so large/varied, it's hard to say "Oh, this is a good one and that's a bad one."

For example, the 16th, in my limited experience, is not really my cup of tea. Kind of chi chi and a bit homogenous for my taste. I'd say the 7th is for "older people" because my mom and her friends like it there. Different strokes and all that.

julies, based on your requirements, it sounds as if any number of arrondisements and areas within them would be just fine for you. Good luck, and please report back on your apartment.

Different people like different areas. I was staying right across from the Bastille opera house, which happens to border the 12th. Lappe is in 11th, but runs off from the area that is nar the border of the 12th. The area you are referring to is, I think, the other direction (SW of place Bastille) and is the 4th arrondisement and an area a lot of people call the Marais, perhaps. I know someone in one of my book groups who lived in that section for a year or so, and she liked it a lot, also.

I think a lot of people think of the 11th/12th arrondisements to the east of bd Beaumarchais and rue de Lyon when they say the Bastille area. I do like the area you named better than the area I was talking about.

It's especially true of eastern Paris that "micro-neighborhood" differences can be striking. I wouldn't suggest anyone stay on the rue de Lappe near Bastille, for example (nonstop clubs), yet just a bit father east, rue Ledru Rollin, both in the 11th and the 12th off rue du Faubourg St. Antoine, and rue Faidherbe off Faubourg St. Antoine in the 11th, are very pleasant and medium-upscale, with interesting boutiques, especially on Faidherbe, and so is the Square Trusseau just off the rue Faubourg St. Antoine in the 12th, yet it's also true that the surrounds of Place d'Aigre, very nearby in the 12th, are grungy.

Sorry, read that Place d'Aligre. Plenty of interest around that square aside from the great market, including the highly popular Red Baron wine bar, with an all-French crowd. But the micor-area is unsandblasted, and not for everyone.

I am still having computer problems, so haven't been able to spend as much time searching as I'd like to. I did go to VRBO and found these places that are in my price range. However, I don't even know if they are available for my dates. Just thought maybe you would be kind enough to comment on the locations before I pursue them any further. I'll admit that I became a little confused as to whether or not they were in locales all of you had recommended or not. Thanks again.

11th VRBO # 927 "Nicely nested in a calm street parallel to La Roquette"

15th VRBO #30329 Near Unesco & Pasteur

14th VRBO #55202 Located close to the Alesia Metro and the Parc Montsouris and Cite International University

5th VRBO 30328 Rue du Cardinal Lemoine

Hard to say about VRBO 927 without a street address. Rue de la Rouquette crosses the entire 11th arrondissement roughly east-west. The west end near Bastille is more lively, but I'd beware if the apartment were on the parallel rue Sedaine in that sector, as much of Sedaine and the triangle north of it bounded bouelvards Richard Lenoir and Voltaire is wholesale clothing shops. A safe area, but a little depressing for lack of other commerce. I'm not as familiar with the west end of Roquette, especially south of Roquette on the west end. North of Roquette there's quite a bit of recent construction. An okay area, not quite gritty but not too inspiring.

Rue Cardinal LeMoine, at least the straight stretch near the Seine, is not a particularly attractive street in my opinion but it does bound a very nice area of the 5th, just to the west.

The area close around the Alesia Metro in the 14th has good and varied commerce and qualifies as a "nice neighborhood."

Unsure of Pasteur in the 15th. But I suspect it's fine.

All of your requirements sound similar to my mother's and mine. We will be staying at a 1 bedroom apartment just off the Rue Cler market in the 7th arr. You can view it at www.hotelrelaisbosquet.com. Although prices vary according to season, we will pay 150E per night in September. There are summer specials though. Hope this helps!

Hers's another that is available (at least according to their calendar) and is in the 12th near Bastille. There was some discussion above about parts of this area being desirable and parts being not so desirable. I think, if I read it correctly, this was one of the okay areas. This is VRBO 43745.

"This two room apartment of 46 m2 is located next to the historic place de la Bastille in Rue du faubourg Saint Antoine, frequented by artist people, near Opéra. From the other side of the place, there is "le Marais" and within a short walk "la place des Vosges", with V.Hugo's house. In the faubourg, there are many shops, bars and further on in the street, the Famous Marché Daligre.

The apartment is in a Nineteenth Century building situated in an inside courtyard, "la cour du Bel Air", with many trees and flowers. Listed in the guides, as the most beautiful court of the faubourg."

Good hunting Jules! Yes, I would go for that apartment. I live on Faubourg St. Antoine, a little farther up toward Nation. It's a very busy street, but the courtyard should resolve that issue. Numerous good restaurants nearby.

I have a better idea.... Try parisbestlodge.com , he has a few really nice places in really good locations. I stayed in the Studio Rivoli (listed under "more apartments") and really loved it. It was located in the heart of Paris in the Marais district (4th arr. ). He has another that i have heard good things about called the Studio Mazarine which is in St Germain on a nice street. Both of these locations are very lively and full of cafes, bistros and shops.

This is just taste, obviously, as some of the areas of the 12th that Dave likes are areas I do not like. I don't think Sq Trousseau is very nice, for example, nor the immediate area. It's just a lot grimmer and dirtier around there than I'm used to in Paris, and a lot of the streets are narrower, and I just didn't like the area that well.

The apt. across from the Bastille oepra on fbg St Antoine is exactly the area I was describing that I didn't like and where I stayed. It's very noisy and crowded around that, particularl just off place Bastille. that's only about one block from rue de Lappe. I would never stay there myself. So, there you go -- completely different opinions.

Now I am partial to the left bank and have stayed longer term in the 14th and 15th so know those areas pretty well. I would consider both those apts., but really would like more specifics regarding addresses. Those ads are being very coy as to exact location, and I don't think either names even the exact metro stop. I suspect the one near Alesia could be on ave Rene Coty a few blocks north of Parc Montsouris rather than in the nice neighborhoods to the west of it. That wouldn't be such a great location from my point of view and isn't really near a metro stop.

The 15th one is probably near Sevres Lecourbe metro and that would probably be the one I'd consider most myself (depending on the exact address of the one in the 14th). I'd still want to know exactly where it is and on which street.

I agree with Dave about Cardinal Lemoine right near the Seine. Kind of dull and near a bunch of large institutions.

julies, I have not been having computer problems, but I confess that I am not a regular Fodor's visitor because the majority of the users here have different interests from myself.
My own recommendation of areas was for "nice yet working class" while voluntarily avoiding "gritty". I myself live in a gritty neighborhood which I like very much (Marx Dormoy) but most of the people here would be horrified by it, as it is mixed Indian, Chinese, Arab and African and is not the typical Parisian experience which a lot of people think should look only like Place Vendôme. Unfortunately, even in my neighborhood, a new 4-star hotel has just opened and the jetset is flocking there because it has the only "ice bar" in Paris (frozen room made completely out of ice and drinks served in glasses made of ice).
I think it is important to realize that there is no unsafe area in Paris, just areas where a little more caution should be exercised and valuables not flashed. The feeling of safety is extremely relative in any case, because one of the streets with the highest crime rate in Paris is the Champs Elysées and yet no one seems to feel unsafe there....

I'm partial to poorer neighborhoods, though my own 11th arrondissement haunts are on the endangered list. As Christina said, it's a matter of taste. Though for residents, there's an element of economics, as well. We could have landed on the rue de Bac in 1986. Almost did, in fact. And no doubt our lives would have been great if a little pinched in some other ways. I doubt, for example we would have traveled as much, or had adventures in French real estate. Instead we landed on rue Jean-Pierre Timbaud and have had 20 wonderful years in the 11th where "the streets are less clean and the people more friendly."

Thanks to the help from all of you I am still searching for what I think will be right for us. Our tastes and budget are way below those of most people who haunt these board. In fact, most of the suggestions I have gotten for "inexpensive" apartments are quite a bit more than I want to pay.

Travelling on the lower end enables us to take a lot more trips and has given us a taste of what the real European experience is, not just that of the 4* & 5* hotel crowd which is what so many of the people who use this forum tend to be. I thought I was going to die last week when people were seriously discussing paying E300 for a LUNCH.

That said, I guess my tastes probably run more toward the more genteel than gritty. Although we are by no means rich, we live in one of the nicer neighborhoods in Minneapolis but are very comfortable visiting and shopping in the more ethinc areas just a few miles away. But, for everyday life and just general walking around, I have to admit, I much prefer my own more upscale neighborhood.

Frankly, for an apartment in Paris though I'd really enjoy a neighborhood that is a part of a more interesting, less run down environment so that it will be fun to just stroll around as a part of our visit. Typically when we visit Europe we tend to pick gasthauses, pensiones, small family run 2* type hotels with at least some charm that are in better (whatever that is) neighborhoods.

Thanks to all of you for bearing with me. Now I'm just waiting for replies from possible apartments I've contacted. If you'd check this out in the next couple days I'd appreciate it, or I may just repost asking for all of your help again after I have some actual available places that meet our requirements. Thanks again.

ttt

I guess it's really subjective, though. I remember wandering around by--behind?--Bastille a couple of years ago and thinking it definitely had the air of a gentrified neighborhood. Newly gentrified, I suppose. I didn't find it particularly gritty at all but perhaps I missed those streeets/micro-areas. In fact, as I know I've said here before, on our first day over there we walked past Jean Paul Gaulthier and a "famous" (though not to me) French rapper.

Although I no longer see the property we rented, last trip we rented from panacherental.com. They have everything from Studios to larger properties & you should be able to find something in the proper locale to fit your budget.