Go Back  Fodor's Travel Talk Forums > Destinations > Europe
Reload this Page >

Are you following Scotland's upcoming vote on independence?

Are you following Scotland's upcoming vote on independence?

Old Sep 9th, 2014, 03:20 AM
  #21  
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 7,763
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Interesting times.
sparkchaser is offline  
Old Sep 9th, 2014, 03:26 AM
  #22  
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,664
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
One of the greatest hypocracies played out daily in the English Tory press is that they want to deny Scotland its right to self-determination from Westminster, but at the same time are vehemently insistent that England should be freed from the shackles of the EU in Brussels (as they perceive it).
Gordon_R is offline  
Old Sep 9th, 2014, 03:27 AM
  #23  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,989
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
SATVIK123 - "I am also concerned about what the visa policies will be post independence of Scotland, would it still be an UK visa to enter Scotland or would one need a Scottish visa?" That is an interesting question.

IWAN2GO - "Did see that the pound went down today, though." A real sticking point. David Cameron visited the Queen. They are all concerned although the Queen has not voiced her opinion publicaly.

GORDON_R - "But any fluctuations due to the impending Scottish independence referendum will be peanuts compared to the de-stabilising effects when rUK has it's referendum to leave the EU." Wow, that will be a hot one!

MAISONPLAGUE - "Whatever happens Keep Calm and Carry On." Good advice in any circumstance .

Thanks all for your replies...
latedaytraveler is offline  
Old Sep 9th, 2014, 04:28 AM
  #24  
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 6,476
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Whatever happens Keep Calm and Carry On.
____
Maybe if WWII cliches were not invoked so often this vote would not be necessary.
___________________________________

Many countries are geographical fictions and the residue of past wars and power struggles. How many countries have domestic prejudices based on geography, class, language, culture, past history, economic opportunities, religion, and skin color.It seems nothing is more basic to the human condition than clan wars and disagreements.
___________

In a matter such as this, there will always be scores of unintended consequences if it comes to pass. The best modern example of a peaceful national separation was under Vaclav Havel when Czechoslovakia became the Czech Republic and Slovakia.
___

There are more dissimilarities than similarities when comparing Scotland to the United States and their relationship with England.
____
IMDonehere is offline  
Old Sep 9th, 2014, 04:39 AM
  #25  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 26,132
Received 4 Likes on 4 Posts
Sparky. No idea why the Scots would want to leave the UK.
bilboburgler is offline  
Old Sep 9th, 2014, 04:59 AM
  #26  
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,664
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
BB - you are not alone, many people living in other parts of the current UK don't "get" it. But read this well-timed BBC article with an open mind, it goes a long way to explaining what's behind the support for the Yes campaign:- http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-29011507
Gordon_R is offline  
Old Sep 9th, 2014, 05:10 AM
  #27  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 26,132
Received 4 Likes on 4 Posts
Thanks Gordon, I can see the angst, but the solution seems a bit odd. Still I've promised myself I'm not going to argue either way as I don't get a vote.
bilboburgler is offline  
Old Sep 9th, 2014, 05:56 AM
  #28  
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,060
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
>They probably said that about the American colonies in 1776.<

Just think, they would now have been an independent country like Canada but would actually include Canada. Biggest country in the world with all those resources.

You must admit that very few countries would allow a part to choose to be independent.
Remind me, didn't the Southern part of the US attempt it at one time?
Josser is offline  
Old Sep 9th, 2014, 05:58 AM
  #29  
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 7,763
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The South was never its own country.
sparkchaser is offline  
Old Sep 9th, 2014, 06:03 AM
  #30  
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 6,476
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
When I read that some Brits have no idea why the Scots want independence, it is akin to the attitude towards racism in the US. Many whites ask what racism, while Blacks, Latinos, and Asians say, the racism that effects us.
_________________

I think the comparisons to the US Revolutionary War and the Civil War have nothing to do with a present day situation, even though England was ironically on the wrong side for both.
IMDonehere is offline  
Old Sep 9th, 2014, 06:24 AM
  #31  
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 66
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
IMDonehere, my reference to Keep Calm and Carry On was directed towards those who, like me, are anxious about the outcome of the referendum. The future of my country is at stake here.
MaisonPlague is offline  
Old Sep 9th, 2014, 07:31 AM
  #32  
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 66
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
"One of the greatest hypocracies played out daily in the English Tory press is that they want to deny Scotland its right to self-determination from Westminster" No paper, not even the most pro-tory, has said that the vote should not take place. Nobody is denying them the Scots' right to self determination. That's why there's a referendum. But government is trying to persuade the Scots to stay in the UK.
MaisonPlague is offline  
Old Sep 9th, 2014, 07:49 AM
  #33  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 17,268
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
"One of the greatest hypocracies played out daily in the English Tory press is that they want to deny Scotland its right to self-determination from Westminster"

No "English Tory press" (or any British pro-Labour medium) wants to deny - or more relevantly, has published a single syllable suggesting anyone should deny - Scotland's desire to secede if its electorate say so.

If you really don't understand the difference between arguing against a position and trying to withhold a democratic right, let's all pray Scotland votes "yes" and Britain's got one less political illiterate to deal with.

If you can cite a single example in the 300 years we've been stuck with the Scotch of a single occasion anyone in England has argued that Scotland should be prevented from pissing off and destroying itself all over again, tell us.
flanneruk is offline  
Old Sep 9th, 2014, 08:04 AM
  #34  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 17,268
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
" "I am also concerned about what the visa policies will be post independence of Scotland, would it still be an UK visa to enter Scotland or would one need a Scottish visa?""

The answer's not 100% clear.

The independence lobby says it wants the same status Ireland has (a common travel area with the UK), but also says it wants more immigrants than it's currently getting - though there's no evidence most Scots agree with that last bit. If the SNP wants the last bit to be law, such rules - which imply an independent visa regime - presumably must be ratified by the Scottish Parliament. And it's not necessarily going to follow the Independence lobby's manifesto.

If Scotland does end up with a significantly different visa regime from Britain (for example, if it makes visas easier for Chinese or Indians), Britain would have to create passport controls between Scotland and Britain - and the Irish Republic and the minor Crown dependencies like Jersey would have to follow suit (otherwise, Scotland would create an open backdoor for uncontrolled immigration).

In practice, Ireland hasn't created visa rules that differ meaningfully (as far as Britain and Ireland are concerned) from Britain and there are strong Irish political pressures for keeping the intra-Ireland border uncontrolled, so Ireland is unlikely to irritate Britain over this..

Political pressures in Scotland will be different. Most Scots will be outraged if its parliament passes laws that end up with the country surrounded by borders. But that might not matter to a triumphalist "we're the masters noo" Scottish parliament.
flanneruk is offline  
Old Sep 9th, 2014, 10:33 AM
  #35  
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 283
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Any new country joining the EU, if an independent Scotland succeeded, has to accept Schengen. Will the hordes of wannabe immigrants divert from Calais to arrive on Easyjet into Glasgow?Salmond will have all the extra immigration he wants. I just hope he's budgeting for the welfare, housing, schools and healthcare they'll need.
anicecupoftea is offline  
Old Sep 9th, 2014, 11:20 AM
  #36  
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 720
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
<i>One of the greatest hypocracies played out daily in the English Tory press is that they want to deny Scotland its right to self-determination from Westminster</i>

The last three Prime Ministers -

David Cameron - Name rather gives it away (father Scottish)
Gordon Brown - born Scotland
Tony Blair - born Scotland
dotheboyshall is offline  
Old Sep 9th, 2014, 11:34 AM
  #37  
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,710
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Anicecupoftea

And that is the point.

Still with days to go we haven't had a definite answer as to where a YES vote will leave us. Combined with the fact that 16 year olds are voting, this isn't leading up to the most informed electorate in democratic history.

The EU requires new entrants to accept the Euro and enter Schengen. Which would leave us with chocolate money BA led by millions of worthless villas on the Costa Del Sol and border controls on the M74 after Carlisle. I suspect Cameron, Noddy and Wallace or simply coming up tomorrow to ensure their nuclear subs all have property of England stickers on them.
Dickie_Gr is offline  
Old Sep 9th, 2014, 11:53 AM
  #38  
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 42,787
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Does "most informed" actually mean, "agrees with my own views on the issue?"
Dukey1 is online now  
Old Sep 9th, 2014, 12:53 PM
  #39  
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 8,082
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I'm all for independence for Texas! I could also suggest another few states to add to the Lone Star Republic.
bvlenci is offline  
Old Sep 9th, 2014, 01:10 PM
  #40  
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,710
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
"not the most informed"

Means : non of us know what we are voting for.

Means : 16 years old are not mature enough to take decision of this magnitude

Goodness knows how people posting here manage to try to twist what one posts. Or why.
Dickie_Gr is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Manage Preferences Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Your Privacy Choices -