Go Back  Fodor's Travel Talk Forums > Destinations > Europe
Reload this Page >

Are you an American exceptionalist to football?

Are you an American exceptionalist to football?

Old Jun 19th, 2006, 12:05 PM
  #201  
hsv
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 2,801
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
>>[...] it is a total lack of defense.<<

Cannot agree with that. After all it's what the rules provide for. If the rules are of no importance then you might argue that a player might also increase his chances of scoring by playing the ball with his hands, throwing it for example. Well, yes, but it does not go along with the rules of the game.

Thinking about that, probably that was the way American Football was invented - people not understanding the offside rule and giving a damn, but still wanting to play ball agreeing in compromise that about everything ought to be allowed ;-).
hsv is offline  
Old Jun 19th, 2006, 12:10 PM
  #202  
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 6,159
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Having played as a defender (and a poor one at that), I can say that the offside trap is a very difficult thing to get right. It may not be a thing of beauty, but it can be very effective.

My understanding of American Football is poor, but from what I have seen, the Offside trap in Soccer is just another defensive tactic, in the same way as a defensive team in Football may have a series of plans to counter an attacking option.

Soccer has eveolved over 150 years or so - I like it the way it is, and would rather not change the rules to suit Americans. No offence is meant by this, but I don't see why we should change "Our" game to suit "You" - or more precisely "US TV".

I am sure it is a question of understanding- if you brought up with a game, play it, and have a knowledge of the subtleties, then you would get far more from a it. Given patience, time and the desire to learn, then most people would realise that the world's greatest game is probaly cricket
willit is offline  
Old Jun 19th, 2006, 12:13 PM
  #203  
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 273
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
"The concept is called fun and entertainment and is a very human thing."

"But I think even the more intelligent animals like to play."

Still at it, are we? The above quote is perfect…except that we DON’T PLAY, we WATCH!

As an American, I’m not in to America bashing, and it’s true of all sports everywhere, but my Gawd, people, don’t you have ANYTHING ELSE TO DO? This grass is all cut, the kids are top level in school, the house is in complete repair and the spouse is perfectly happy as you vegetate in front of the telly for HOURS…

Speaking of which, I read somewhere that an American football game, which can easily run 3 or 4 hours, can actually be watched in about 20 minutes if one tapes oTivo’s it and deletes the time-outs, breaks, etc.

Pro basketball, or even college level, consist of a group of abnormally large doofi strolling from one end of the court to the other stuffing the ball into the goal. They hardly “dribble” the ball anymore, just take four or five loping handfuls, and they rarely run, their foot-span being so large they don’t require it. They’re tall enough that they hardly have to actually jump.

But if you’re good at any of these sports in high school you will have access to a virtually free education at any university. Of course that is not so for those equally good in real subjects such as science, math or the arts.

It is one thing to play at a sport or a game, it is one thing as a parent to watch your child build up their mind and body, it is quite another to sit and WATCH some over paid man or woman on tv taking a child’s game so, so seriously.

And the "coaches", oh please! Find a REAL job and calm down!

Of course, the obvious is that it is money for the owners, the players, Nike, Addis and the rest. I cringe when I see over-weight, middleaged people proudly wearing their cap or shirt with that cute little “swish” logo on it. Yeah, I’ll bet they just got back from the finals somewhere.

Give me---and everyone else---a huge break. Take a walk or go read a book. If you still can.
DiAblo is offline  
Old Jun 19th, 2006, 12:34 PM
  #204  
JJ5
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 16,253
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
DiAblo, that's what I don't get. Why does it make you angry when someone else likes to watch or takes great interest in a sport or activity you do NOT want to watch?

I don't get mad at people who love theatre and opera. I could take them or leave them for the most part. Or want to go to the ballet every second week, or listen to their own same music on the stero systems every day. And I know men and women who read, dance, etc. and still relax watching sport. Because you consider it a joyless timewaster, why do you think disdain or namecall those who don't.

Almost every human civilization had sport that was watched as well as performed. We all get joy out of seeing the outcomes to ever changing logistics and physical strategies.

Doubtless they are overpaid and their are some negatives. But why is sitting in a cafe drinking and conversing much different. We watch with friends, we go to the parks AND we watch on tv while doing other chores at the same time. But regardless, why should sports lovers in general, always need to defend their own states of joy from watching the performances.
JJ5 is offline  
Old Jun 19th, 2006, 12:35 PM
  #205  
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,313
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I think the point made earlier about Americans (and perhaps others) only being interested in the home team is very good.

For instance: I never watch sports. I am a female accountant, never got into sports, husband doesn't watch sports, dad doesn't watch sports, etc.

However, I watched the World Series when my home state (Florida) was in it -- and won.

I also got into hockey when the Florida Panthers were in the run for winning.

I have only watched parts of SuperBowls to see the cool commercials, though not often.

The only sports I actually enjoy watching otherwise are weird ones -- swordfighting, jousting and other medieval events at ren fairs (I'm part of a couple re-enactor societies). Horse-racing occasionally. Otherwise, I'd rather watch something about history or science. Or escapism (scifi/fantasy by choice).

GreenDragon is offline  
Old Jun 19th, 2006, 12:35 PM
  #206  
hsv
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 2,801
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
DiAblo,

let's face it - we are humans and we need diversions from what is keeping us busy.

Following sports does not exclude reading a good book and does not impair one's intellectual capacities.

And then, hanging out on an internet travel message board isn't too darn clever either, is it? Yet we all still do it - and I presume get some fun out of it.
hsv is offline  
Old Jun 19th, 2006, 01:35 PM
  #207  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,473
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Reading the football debate on this thread has been interesting in how it has highlighted the dissonance between football afficianados and many Americans. The football offside rule is especially hard for Americans to fathom. Using world football rules, the offsides rule would negate the efforts of an American football wide receiver who would be penalized for getting behind a safety or cornerback instead of being rewarded for his efforts. In fact, the cornerback or safety would be rewarded by playing his man very tight as the wide receiver would achieve nothing by sprinting past his opponent. It would be offsides.
GeorgeW is offline  
Old Jun 19th, 2006, 01:44 PM
  #208  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 9,016
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The moment the ball is played, both players start at an equal position to avoid being offside. You need to be able to run faster than your opponent to reach the ball before he does. Isn't that a fair competiton?
logos999 is offline  
Old Jun 19th, 2006, 01:47 PM
  #209  
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 97
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I watch sports (yes, even World Cup) because it bugs the crap outta people like Diablo, who seem to know how best we should all be living our lives.

As to the offsides thing -
Seems to me that ANY goal can be negated by the official making the very subjective, and unaccountable call of offside. It happened at least twice over the weekend. Or, this rule of being in the way of the goalie. Completely arbitrary. Does instant replay get used for any purpose in league or world cup play?
Rules indeed are rules, might as well get it right and remove as much subjectivity as possible.
And isn't the offside rule a relatively recent construct anyway?
Change is good. I hear Beckham is gonna come play in the states. Isn't he a Spice Girl or something?
GalavantingReprobate is offline  
Old Jun 19th, 2006, 02:13 PM
  #210  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 9,016
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
>negated by the official
There are three officials, 2 linesmen determine weather it was offside or not.

The goalie must not be attacked inside the 6 yard box nor must he be hindered in his view. I believe all the referees have done an excellent job so far.
logos999 is offline  
Old Jun 19th, 2006, 02:31 PM
  #211  
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 97
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Quite regularly during the US/Italy match the commentators would run replays and be at a complete loss to explain why certain calls were made.
They would try to explain the rule, but the video seemed to contradict what call was actually made, according to the rule, which was being explained. sort of.
GalavantingReprobate is offline  
Old Jun 19th, 2006, 02:35 PM
  #212  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 9,016
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
You need to watch the German (or Austrian) commentary. Can it be that the commentators on US TV have no idea what they're talking about? ;-)
logos999 is offline  
Old Jun 19th, 2006, 02:35 PM
  #213  
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 9,922
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
"Why post something like this which is obviously designed to bait people?"

- To bait people, of course. And no matter how obvious you make it, someone will always bite.

If "taking the piss" were an Olympic sport, England would be the permanent gold medallist.
Neil_Oz is offline  
Old Jun 19th, 2006, 02:47 PM
  #214  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 9,016
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
There are two subjects in this county, where everybody has an opinion and everybody is interested in. One is the weather. You should not under estimate the importance of football in Europe. It's a sbject to talk about for hours. And tomorrow during office hours, when Germany plays, your boss better has a 42' TV or beamer ready to avoid too many people calling in sick.
logos999 is offline  
Old Jun 19th, 2006, 03:16 PM
  #215  
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,602
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
True words, Neil, which is why you have to give it right back when it's dished out!

I watched the game, and actually found it halfway interesting. I also read the Italian papers and what they had to say about it: I also observed the following:

Italian "mamone" player holding his leg in agony while being taken off in a stretcher-2 min. later, (I watched the game on Spanish TV) it showed him dancing on the sidelines talking to his team.

I saw the vicious elbow to the American player, who, with blood pouring out of his face and down his jersey, CONTINUED to play-no look of agony, no screams, nothing. I understand that he had to have 3 stiches in his face to close the gash, that the Italian player went into his locker room afterwards to apologize, and that the Italian player may face some serious sanctions due to the severity of the blow.

There was virtually no mention of that blow, no picture of the American player's face anywhere in the Italian print media. I ask you, what do you think would happen if the situation had been reversed? I'm pretty sure all hell would have broken loose in Italia-that Italians would (and in fact, I read, did) make all kinds of anti-American comments during the match, (concerning Iraq) at various locales (this I read in the Venice newspaper of those watching the match in Venice) and would have called for the American player's permanent ban in soccer.

I've a hell of a lot more respect now for the American team than previously-in one sense, they epitomized why we are who we are in the world today-we get the job done-we don't whine, whinge, complain, agonize and dither endlessly over a matter-we decide on a course of action, and then just do it. Nothing theatrical, just decide on a plan, carry it out, get the job done-sometimes that is what is needed most in the world, regardless of the "rightness" of the decision.

So in that sense, these World Cup games are a sort of microcosm of Weltpolitik, as I see it.
Spygirl is offline  
Old Jun 19th, 2006, 03:23 PM
  #216  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 9,016
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I do start to belive that the US is in fact located on another planet of this solar sytem (maybe even another), based on the comments found here.
Want more blood... Plain straight action to get the job done ;-)


(this is supposed to be a joke...)
logos999 is offline  
Old Jun 19th, 2006, 06:00 PM
  #217  
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 9,922
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
And that's not all, Spygirl - after Australia's distressing loss to Brazil an Australian player is under threat of suspension for saying hurtful things to a sensitive German ref - something along the lines of "you f***ing sh*t", which you wouldn't think would raise an eyebrow in a real football game. No doubt the referee is traumatised and undergoing counselling.

I'm not sure that I'd mention the words "Iraq" and "getting the job done" in the same post, though, unless as an example of a real-world own goal.
Neil_Oz is offline  
Old Jun 19th, 2006, 10:10 PM
  #218  
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,527
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I'm loving this. I admire all of your sports-passion. Here is a brief summary of my TV sports watching:
Winter Olympics every 4 years, along with about 10 other Americans.

Tour de France every summer, even though I have to get up super early to catch it. Now that Lance is 'retired' who knows if we will even get much coverage.

Maybe some college basketball during March Madness if a school I am connected to, even remotely, is involved.

An occasional Super Bowl if the party is at the home of the local wine-shop owner.

A bit of tennis finals if I have nothing else to do.

But the year I am getting obsessed with the World Cup. I love the internationalism of it, as a fairly ignorant spectator, I absolutely don't find it nearly as boring as American football, or god help me, baseball (unless I am in the stands on a warm night w/ a cold beer in hand).

And most of all, I love the shorts. Shallow but oh so true...

Of course, I can only safely say this on an online forum, esp w/ the World Series (baseball fans, explain that name to me, please) around the corner.

Finally, re: the physical conditioning required for soccer vs US football -- when you are really ready to get an aerobic workout, come see me and I'll take you cross-country skiing!
annabelle2 is offline  
Old Jun 19th, 2006, 11:33 PM
  #219  
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 395
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
>>>> I absolutely don't find it nearly as boring as American football<<<<<

Did you not see the Texas-USC Rose Bowl game? That was one of the most exciting college fotball games ever.

I dunno, maybe it's me, but I am used to seeing SEC football. SEC YEEEAAH!!! When you have seen the SEC, there is nothing better!!!

One night I was listening to one of the sports talk shows when some guy wanted to talk soccer. Announcer said: Who the hell cares?

Second best college game ever: Tennessee-Notre Dame 1991. Tennessee rallied in the 4th quarter to win in South Bend 35-34.

Then there is the, insert Howard Cosell, N-F-L and the 1967 ice bowl between the Green Bay packahs (Packers) and the Dallas Cowboys. Bart Star snuck it in the endzone to win the game as temps were well below freezing!!!



sunstar is offline  
Old Jun 20th, 2006, 12:01 AM
  #220  
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,722
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Sunstar - seems like every 14 years turns up a good game, statistically speaking.

I've always wondered how teams get to the Rose, Sugar, Fiesta, Orange bowl, etc after researching on Wikipedia, 'I finally now know, for those interested and I'm sure Sunstar would already know this being such a devoted fan, here it is:

<<2004-05 formula
The exact formula was made public information, and shown to consist of an arithmetic average of the following three numbers:

AP Poll: A team's AP Poll number is the percentage of the possible points it could receive in the poll. As an example, in the final regular-season poll of 2003, LSU received a total of 1,580 out of a possible 1,625 points from the voters, giving them an AP Poll percentage of 97.2.

Coaches' Poll: This is calculated in the same manner as the AP Poll number. For LSU, their final regular-season number in this poll would have been 96.3 (1,516 out of 1,575 possible points).

Computer Average: The BCS now uses six computer rating systems (Anderson-Hester, Billingsley, Colley, Massey, Sagarin, and Wolfe), dropping the highest and lowest ranking for each team. Then, it will give a team 25 points for a Number 1 ranking in an individual system, 24 points for Number 2, and so on down to 1 point for Number 25. Each team's set of numbers is then added, conveniently making the number compatible with the percentages from the two polls. For USC, dropping their highest and lowest computer rankings would have left them with four third-place finishes, worth 23 points each for a total of 92, while LSU would have had four second-place finishes for a total of 96.

The BCS averaged the three numbers obtained above, divided the result by 100, and converted it to a decimal fraction.>>

It sure beats having to play in group matches, quarter's, & semi's to qualify for the final.

Geordie
Geordie is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Manage Preferences Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Your Privacy Choices -