Are you an American exceptionalist to football?
Jun 19th, 2006, 07:56 AM
#181
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>>>>>Similarly I will never be convinced that American Football is anything other than a game for rough girls.<<<<<>>>
Good thing Albert Haynesworth did not hear you say that.#:-S
As I said, when the *real* football starts when the summer practice starts in Knoxville, Austine, Baton Rouge, Athens (Georgia), then we might actually give.. .........
Or when summer camps opens for the Steelers, The Cowboys and all the great American football teams
Good thing Albert Haynesworth did not hear you say that.#:-S
As I said, when the *real* football starts when the summer practice starts in Knoxville, Austine, Baton Rouge, Athens (Georgia), then we might actually give.. .........
Or when summer camps opens for the Steelers, The Cowboys and all the great American football teams
Jun 19th, 2006, 08:04 AM
#182
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This is the ultimate dialogue of the deaf.
Pretty much all of the rest of the world finds American sports dull - it's why they aren't popular. American football had a brief flurry of popularity here during the early 80s as it was covered as a highlights package on channel four - and it looked like quite good fun. However we soon tired of it, as if it's not a part of your sporting cultiure, then you're never really going to like it. Also in real life it's so very slow - crickey has more action (this is honestly true) They show the superbowl here, but again only a very few watch it. In the papers there will be a short report on the game, but it will be after all the major, and minor, sports here. The World series isn't covered at all, ditto stanley cup, NBA, NASCAR etc.
There are also things about US sport that we find completely anathema - for instance there is no way that a European team could be moved like the franchises are. In fact it has happened here once and it completely killed the team and the fans of the original team now have a more viable team that they own themselves than the "franchise". Of the 92 professional English teams 90 are named after a geographical area., and that's where they are rooted.
Different strokes for different folks - but 5 Billlion of us can't all be wrong - can we?
Pretty much all of the rest of the world finds American sports dull - it's why they aren't popular. American football had a brief flurry of popularity here during the early 80s as it was covered as a highlights package on channel four - and it looked like quite good fun. However we soon tired of it, as if it's not a part of your sporting cultiure, then you're never really going to like it. Also in real life it's so very slow - crickey has more action (this is honestly true) They show the superbowl here, but again only a very few watch it. In the papers there will be a short report on the game, but it will be after all the major, and minor, sports here. The World series isn't covered at all, ditto stanley cup, NBA, NASCAR etc.
There are also things about US sport that we find completely anathema - for instance there is no way that a European team could be moved like the franchises are. In fact it has happened here once and it completely killed the team and the fans of the original team now have a more viable team that they own themselves than the "franchise". Of the 92 professional English teams 90 are named after a geographical area., and that's where they are rooted.
Different strokes for different folks - but 5 Billlion of us can't all be wrong - can we?
Jun 19th, 2006, 08:09 AM
#184
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My 2cents in a very scattered form:
I've read numerous posts about US children playing soccer. The last stats I saw showed clearly that the number of kids playing drops off a cliff as they age. Millions play at 7, but by the time they're 18 its down to NM (Not meaningful)
OK, on to the negatives:
Soccer is boring, if the sound is off, you'll be asleep in 10 minutes. If it weren't for the announcers to wake you up when there is a possible goal you'd miss it (and I mean IT)
The offsides rule is the stupidest rule in any sport anywhere.
Penalties should result in odd man advantage like hockey. This warning stuff is garbage. Commit a foul and your team is in trouble immediately
The fake injuries should result in odd man penalties as well.
Too much standing around. My European and So American friends claim that they are great atheletes that run constantly for 90 minutes. I challenge them to stop watching the ball and watch the 8 guys nowhere near the ball and they have to admit that there's a whole lot of standing around.
To counter their Baseball/football is slow arguement I point out that ever pitch/play can result in an outcome within a matter of seconds and often does. Again, they have to agree.
The positives:
Every 4 years, everyone gets to root for their country without bombings/beheadings/machette/etc. You gotta love that
and the #1 reason for WC soccer...the bikini "flags"
I've read numerous posts about US children playing soccer. The last stats I saw showed clearly that the number of kids playing drops off a cliff as they age. Millions play at 7, but by the time they're 18 its down to NM (Not meaningful)
OK, on to the negatives:
Soccer is boring, if the sound is off, you'll be asleep in 10 minutes. If it weren't for the announcers to wake you up when there is a possible goal you'd miss it (and I mean IT)
The offsides rule is the stupidest rule in any sport anywhere.
Penalties should result in odd man advantage like hockey. This warning stuff is garbage. Commit a foul and your team is in trouble immediately
The fake injuries should result in odd man penalties as well.
Too much standing around. My European and So American friends claim that they are great atheletes that run constantly for 90 minutes. I challenge them to stop watching the ball and watch the 8 guys nowhere near the ball and they have to admit that there's a whole lot of standing around.
To counter their Baseball/football is slow arguement I point out that ever pitch/play can result in an outcome within a matter of seconds and often does. Again, they have to agree.
The positives:
Every 4 years, everyone gets to root for their country without bombings/beheadings/machette/etc. You gotta love that
and the #1 reason for WC soccer...the bikini "flags"
Jun 19th, 2006, 08:17 AM
#185
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I would love to see David's face if he ever actually saw a typical workout in the NFL workout camps. Your speed players: Wide receivers, Defensive backs, running backs kickoff and punt returners are all well over 200 pounds, usually around 200-230 pounds. These guys run the 40 in about 4.3 to 4.5.
The power positions, defensive lineman, offensive linemen, these guys average well over 300 pounds. They run the 40 in about 4.7-5 seconds.
Stil think it's a game for girls?
The power positions, defensive lineman, offensive linemen, these guys average well over 300 pounds. They run the 40 in about 4.7-5 seconds.
Stil think it's a game for girls?
Jun 19th, 2006, 08:41 AM
#186
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A ferrari can do 0-60 in five seconds and weighs half a ton.
If I was sitting in a nice comfy tank, would I be scared of a ferrari driving towards me? No. Why not? I am surrounded by armour. I'm not going to get hurt. Same thing innit.
Rugby players are as big and strong as the steroid lumps that play "football" and play without armour - that's tough. (and Rugby's pretty boring to be honest).
It would be interesting to see them play without the armour (and the endless pauses while they change the entire team). Then I might take them seriously.
If I was sitting in a nice comfy tank, would I be scared of a ferrari driving towards me? No. Why not? I am surrounded by armour. I'm not going to get hurt. Same thing innit.
Rugby players are as big and strong as the steroid lumps that play "football" and play without armour - that's tough. (and Rugby's pretty boring to be honest).
It would be interesting to see them play without the armour (and the endless pauses while they change the entire team). Then I might take them seriously.
Jun 19th, 2006, 08:49 AM
#187
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Well, why don't you fly to an NFL city and say to an average defensive lineman: I think NFL football is for little girly men. 
I assure you that you will spending the night on a nice soft bed, a hospital bed.
No, most of these guys are gentlemen and probably woyld not hurt you,not seriously at least, but they would change your mind about American football being for sissy britches.
I assure you that you will spending the night on a nice soft bed, a hospital bed. No, most of these guys are gentlemen and probably woyld not hurt you,not seriously at least, but they would change your mind about American football being for sissy britches.
Jun 19th, 2006, 09:15 AM
#190
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You mentioned all of that protective gear that NFL or College football players wear.
Quarterback Troy Aikman of the Dallas Cowboys was forced to retire early after Doctors told him one more concussion might kill him. Same with Steve Young and Roger Staubach.
I saw several promising college running backs go down with serious injuries after one blow to the knees. Chuck Web, running back with the Tennessee Vols went down after a hard hit in the knees. He never was quite the same.
I saw Jamal Lewis for the Baltimore Ravens go down in his college days after a terrible hit while playing college football for the Tennessee Vols in a game against the Alabama Crimson Tide.
He bounced back, but he was lucky. That gear is needed in American football since the game is so brutal.
Quarterback Troy Aikman of the Dallas Cowboys was forced to retire early after Doctors told him one more concussion might kill him. Same with Steve Young and Roger Staubach.
I saw several promising college running backs go down with serious injuries after one blow to the knees. Chuck Web, running back with the Tennessee Vols went down after a hard hit in the knees. He never was quite the same.
I saw Jamal Lewis for the Baltimore Ravens go down in his college days after a terrible hit while playing college football for the Tennessee Vols in a game against the Alabama Crimson Tide.
He bounced back, but he was lucky. That gear is needed in American football since the game is so brutal.
Jun 19th, 2006, 09:26 AM
#191
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"That gear is needed in American football since the game is so brutal."
When my daughter was a competitive gymnast she used to wear a T-shirt that said "If football were any tougher, they'd call it gymnastics."
Anselm
When my daughter was a competitive gymnast she used to wear a T-shirt that said "If football were any tougher, they'd call it gymnastics."
Anselm
Jun 19th, 2006, 09:27 AM
#192
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I like watching the World Cup but seldom watch American soccer (MLS). The World Cup provides an entirely different dynamic (like the Olympics for example) + the quality of soccer is so good. I also catch the occasional Premier League, or Champions League matches. That being said, in order to make soccer more appealing, I think FIFA needs to do something about the offside rule. The defensive back just steps up if he is beat, & the striker is then offside. (???!!!) That's a pretty lazy way to play defense. They could learn a few things from hockey...Also, the whole 'diving' to draw penalties has to stop, you leave the field, you should have to stay off a minimum of 10 minutes or something...What a bunch of wussies...
Jun 19th, 2006, 10:29 AM
#193
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Ice hockey has an offsides rule also, to force the offense to attack as a team, rather than just leaving a cherry picker by the goal. In socker, the offside trap is not as simple or sure as you seem to think. First, it has to be applied as a team, rather than an individual, and if you try it, you risk the official not calling it. I see nothing wrong with the rule, if properly called, and I think the game would be less challenging without the rule, but there would be more scoring, certainly, which apparently is what interests the American fan.
As to diving, no professional league in the world has been more bedeviled by divers this year than the National Hockey League. Since they removed much physical contact from the game with their new rules, not a period passes without multiple dives, to the point where the league fines players for dives now, even when the on ice officials don't call them. Long time hockey fans decry this development, saying that the players now look like soccer players. If you are really looking for diving and sissified behavior, find one of the bench-clearing baseball brawls.
In the US, participation in all sports, except possibly softball and basketball, drops off sharply with graduation. Perhaps that is why we are generally obese. My feeling is that kids with athletic talent, who hope to become professional athletes, gravitate to the sports where they can make the most money, and in the US, that isn't soccer. It is one thing to stay with a sport to get a scholarship; but if you want to turn pro after graduating college, sports like wrestling, fencing, gymnastics, and soccer offer little in this country.
As to diving, no professional league in the world has been more bedeviled by divers this year than the National Hockey League. Since they removed much physical contact from the game with their new rules, not a period passes without multiple dives, to the point where the league fines players for dives now, even when the on ice officials don't call them. Long time hockey fans decry this development, saying that the players now look like soccer players. If you are really looking for diving and sissified behavior, find one of the bench-clearing baseball brawls.
In the US, participation in all sports, except possibly softball and basketball, drops off sharply with graduation. Perhaps that is why we are generally obese. My feeling is that kids with athletic talent, who hope to become professional athletes, gravitate to the sports where they can make the most money, and in the US, that isn't soccer. It is one thing to stay with a sport to get a scholarship; but if you want to turn pro after graduating college, sports like wrestling, fencing, gymnastics, and soccer offer little in this country.
Jun 19th, 2006, 10:44 AM
#194
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I agree CB (& nice name BTW since I am a huge Browns fan). If they had a 'blue line', like in hockey I would be fine w/it. Of course, that would negate some of the possible impact of goal kicks, long balls & what not. The other day I saw a goal disallowed on a header from 3 yards due to offside. There just has to be a better way... One of my employees played w/Eddie Pope in HS & he says pure & simple, as a defensive player, the first thing you are taught in soccer is to 'step up' if you are beat & try to draw the offside call rather than to just mark your man. What kind of game would encourage that ??
Jun 19th, 2006, 10:56 AM
#195
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>>What kind of game would encourage that ??<<
A game that demands a lot of skill and wit - and which for exactly that reason is fun to watch despite of whether actually goals are scored or not.
Do not mess with the off-side rule, which decidedly makes football demanding to play and fun to watch!
BTW, it is not as easy as you describe it and very few teams in fact rely on the tactics outlined by you constantly.
Reading all these comments I am indeed glad that football receives so little interest from the U.S.. If people not familiar with the spirit of a game so decidedly advocate changes to the rules of the game that is deeply alarming to me.
A game that demands a lot of skill and wit - and which for exactly that reason is fun to watch despite of whether actually goals are scored or not.
Do not mess with the off-side rule, which decidedly makes football demanding to play and fun to watch!
BTW, it is not as easy as you describe it and very few teams in fact rely on the tactics outlined by you constantly.
Reading all these comments I am indeed glad that football receives so little interest from the U.S.. If people not familiar with the spirit of a game so decidedly advocate changes to the rules of the game that is deeply alarming to me.
Jun 19th, 2006, 11:05 AM
#196
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I've enjoyed reading this thread. And I did read all. Learned a few things, and agree with a lot. I watched a couple of World Cup games yesterday with my teen-age nephews who play (18, 16) travel soccer in the USA. They were hysterical laughing when I thought the stretcher was going to be used, and that the player was seriously injured during the Korea/France game.
From one who has the sports gene, loves to play, loves to watch- and always has (despite being female- and do you know how hard it is to get out of doing kitchen work in an Italian family, when you want to watch football with the men instead or want to get out to play softball!) there's much on this thread that just "thinks too much".
Sports have brought a lot of joy into my life. As play, as art, as movement, as comradery, as "tribal" bonding, whatever.. It's still fun, and it is for most humans. And I sincerely hope that none of the American sports I follow closely get popular to the extent of Soccer's worldwide euphoria. I want to have some of my own brands of play, with all the strategy tales, inside head stories, and heros/bums sagas.
bennie, that is so funny about the sport of the future. When my first son was about 7, they said exactly that. Now he is 38 and I see little difference. Interest/excitement, maybe only when the Mexican team plays in downtown Chicago or when the World Cup is in progress. And it's short lived.
If you don't like sports, you don't have the gene, you don't "get" it, intellectually. Like those who don't "get" art or a type of music- just don't make it a lot more than it is. Competition, young men in fine physical shape competing in all kinds of way with unique skills. Ah, I like it and appreciate it.
Nothing I have seen with my own eyes on a stage has been as beautiful, to me, as a perfectly executed double play. I don't need understanding re the issue.
Play ball!
From one who has the sports gene, loves to play, loves to watch- and always has (despite being female- and do you know how hard it is to get out of doing kitchen work in an Italian family, when you want to watch football with the men instead or want to get out to play softball!) there's much on this thread that just "thinks too much".
Sports have brought a lot of joy into my life. As play, as art, as movement, as comradery, as "tribal" bonding, whatever.. It's still fun, and it is for most humans. And I sincerely hope that none of the American sports I follow closely get popular to the extent of Soccer's worldwide euphoria. I want to have some of my own brands of play, with all the strategy tales, inside head stories, and heros/bums sagas.
bennie, that is so funny about the sport of the future. When my first son was about 7, they said exactly that. Now he is 38 and I see little difference. Interest/excitement, maybe only when the Mexican team plays in downtown Chicago or when the World Cup is in progress. And it's short lived.
If you don't like sports, you don't have the gene, you don't "get" it, intellectually. Like those who don't "get" art or a type of music- just don't make it a lot more than it is. Competition, young men in fine physical shape competing in all kinds of way with unique skills. Ah, I like it and appreciate it.
Nothing I have seen with my own eyes on a stage has been as beautiful, to me, as a perfectly executed double play. I don't need understanding re the issue.
Play ball!
Jun 19th, 2006, 11:24 AM
#197
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Change is a necessary evil in nearly all things...to watch a guy writh around on the ground holding his head & be carried off on a stretcher while the replay shows he wasn't even touched by the opponent, well, you need to draw the line somewhere or that type of behavior makes a mockery of the game itself. If you think defenders don't step up to gain the offside call, well I'm not sure what you are watching. It is blatantly obvious, particularly when they show the replays. I don't see the need to reward a team for playing, what is in effect, poor defense.
Jun 19th, 2006, 11:38 AM
#198
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SAnParis,
it is not poor defense!!! And I am pretty certain about what I am watching and about what sport I played for quite a while pretty ambitiously myself and still execute on a spare-time level.
Apart from that I agree with diving being detestable, although it is not so much of a problem as some posters here are trying to imply. Trouble is when one is being hit by an opponent's leg or foot in full motion it does indeed hurt considerably and can cause severe injuries. But watch any Premier League match - and I guarantee you that most players calling for medical treatment do so deservedly.
While I also agree that change is an integral part of life, the rules certainly do not deserve to be changed only because some people unfamiliar with the rules and unwilling to understand them are calling for any such change.
it is not poor defense!!! And I am pretty certain about what I am watching and about what sport I played for quite a while pretty ambitiously myself and still execute on a spare-time level.
Apart from that I agree with diving being detestable, although it is not so much of a problem as some posters here are trying to imply. Trouble is when one is being hit by an opponent's leg or foot in full motion it does indeed hurt considerably and can cause severe injuries. But watch any Premier League match - and I guarantee you that most players calling for medical treatment do so deservedly.
While I also agree that change is an integral part of life, the rules certainly do not deserve to be changed only because some people unfamiliar with the rules and unwilling to understand them are calling for any such change.
Jun 19th, 2006, 11:55 AM
#199
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Just to add to the offside discussion:
Being the rules set out as they are, it is simply impossible to play an offside trap at all times. The rules distinguish between a passive and an active offside. If a player is indeed put in an offside possition, but in no way participates in the attack, he is in a passive offside position and this will not cause the ref to make a call. Mind you, this is in many instances only to be determined from an ex-post assessment.
While I am not too fond of the rule (which coincidently was introduced only a few years ago), it certainly makes it impossible for any defense line to rely completely on making that step forward and putting an opponent into an offside position. After all, he might not even get the ball and the position the defense assumes through that step forward may very well be very unfavourable for the play that is indeed executed.
Finally, you seem to disregard that offside is not a position to be determined only by the defense. The opponent's player may avoid it by going along with the defense line. And it is completely up to the attacker's where they want to play the ball. So after all the attackers are still calling the shots - and the discussion about offside being a sign of a poor defense should really come to a halt.
Being the rules set out as they are, it is simply impossible to play an offside trap at all times. The rules distinguish between a passive and an active offside. If a player is indeed put in an offside possition, but in no way participates in the attack, he is in a passive offside position and this will not cause the ref to make a call. Mind you, this is in many instances only to be determined from an ex-post assessment.
While I am not too fond of the rule (which coincidently was introduced only a few years ago), it certainly makes it impossible for any defense line to rely completely on making that step forward and putting an opponent into an offside position. After all, he might not even get the ball and the position the defense assumes through that step forward may very well be very unfavourable for the play that is indeed executed.
Finally, you seem to disregard that offside is not a position to be determined only by the defense. The opponent's player may avoid it by going along with the defense line. And it is completely up to the attacker's where they want to play the ball. So after all the attackers are still calling the shots - and the discussion about offside being a sign of a poor defense should really come to a halt.
Jun 19th, 2006, 11:56 AM
#200
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Basically, in any other sport I can think of, if you let an opposing player get behind you, the other team typically scores or, has a great chance to score in many instances. You are correct, it is not poor defense, it is a total lack of defense. If you are not marking your man, you should pay the price. The South Americans seem to be the 'premier' divers, although S. Korea has been fairly bad as well.
