Doppio

My sister and mother will be traveling to Paris, Florence and Amsterdam for a month. They are both quite heavy. My sister is about 6' tall and 220lbs (size US 18) and my mother is about 100lbs overweight, although not as tall.

I am worried they may be treated unkindly, as I have seen this happen when we travelled together to California last year. I have been to Europe, but not being heavy, I'm not sure what it may be like for them in the places they are visiting.

Maybe it's a silly question, but I want them to have a good time. My sister is already worried about it, and is considering canceling the trip until she has lost 60lbs. The way she was treated in Los Angeles has really caused her much anxiety about traveling again. . It's upsetting because she doesn't have a mean bone in her body, and she is always so kind, polite and upbeat. I'd hate to think she will have to go through it again.

If anyone can offer any advice, especially on this subject, or if you are heavy, please post if you were treated any differently. Thanks.

kleeblatt

They might be stared at but they should still be treated with respect. I'm more concerned about walking. European cities are made for walking and they'll be doing a lot of it. Will this be a problem?

bilboburgler

Generally people are not unkind to strangers in Europe (they save that for friends and family). But I think it would be wise to see what the views are from individual countries. I'm struggling with 220Ilbs, is that 100kgs or 15stone on a 6 foot body? That is just at the top end of overweight not obese.

bilboburgler

Do they dress ok? If you dress badly in Italy you might be stared at.

Doppio

Schuler, my sister has always been athletic and has no problem with a lot of walking, even After gaining weight. My mom, even though she is big, walks a mile every day.

Bilboburgler, I think also because my sister is so tall for a woman *plus* being heavy, it's an issue. We heard everything from locals suggesting she was a drag queen, a man in a dress, and a line backer when we were in Los Angeles. She has long hair and dresses very fashionable, not at all masculine. One guy at a Starbucks even laughed when she requested whipped cream on her drink and said, "Are you sure? It doesn't look like you need the extra calories!"

People can be awful.

hetismij2

Why do you think they would have a problem?
I am obese and have never experienced any nastiness about my weight.

100kgs on a 6ft body is not obese, overweight yes, but not enough to cause people to stop and stare. Here in the Netherlands her height will be fairly normal, so even that won't attract attention.

Provided they have a good attitude to life, and treat other people with respect and friendliness they will be treated in the same way. They should not be self conscious and just enjoy their trip.

annhig

I think also because my sister is so tall for a woman *plus* being heavy, it's an issue. We heard everything from locals suggesting she was a drag queen, a man in a dress, and a line backer when we were in Los Angeles>>

doppio, i can't imagine anyone in europe being that rude to a stranger. I am no size 0, indeed I'm much closer to a US size 18 than i am to size 0 and no-one has ever said anything to me. indeed i have a friend who is truly obese and no-one has ever said anything to her either.

I think that your DM and DS might be pleasantly surprised as to the attitude they experience here.

goldenautumn

You can google up pictures of tourists in all the places your sister is going. You will see plenty of photos of women the size of your sister and mother -- not all of them American -- at all the sights.

It is possible that your sister will be treated rudely because she is mistaken for a German tourist or a UK tourist or a Russian tourist, not always popular in every locale. Sometimes American tourists are not popular, period, no matter what their size. If she interprets every irritable look from a waiter or shopkeeper as a reaction to her weight, she may be drawing the wrong conclusions.

It is really not likely any European moved to comment on her weight will say it English.

IF your sister and mother don't speak any language other than English, they will have to come prepared to smile a lot and say "excuse me" a lot for asking other people to indulge them while they struggle with menus and buying things. They should learn to say "please" and "thank you" and other courtesies in 3 other languages or risk insulting the natives and getting dissed in return. But that is true even if they were rail-thin.

Europeans can be overtly judgmental about the way women are dressed, and some common American tourist "uniforms" on women-- walking shorts, fanny packs, crew socks and athletic shoes, women who wear men's t-shirts and baseball caps -- get put-down looks from European fashionistas. But again, that is true even if the women aren't an ounce overweight. The American suburbanite fondness for square-cut rather than curvy lines is sniffed at in some southern-facing European cultures -- not so in those more in tune with Angela Merkel.

I've noticed that in America that "overweight" women who wear clothes that show off their ample curves get put-down looks from other American women. But that is less so in Europe, so if your sister has some figure hugging clothes, she should feel free to pack them.

Pegontheroad

This reminds me of a time I went to a church women's group in Staufen, Germany. I was studying at a Goethe Institute and had taken advantage of an offer to go to this women's group.

The speaker was a woman who had spent some time in Iran, and she told us about it. There was a woman there who was blind. She made a comment about how women in Iran were overweight, though I don't think that's really the case.

I think she forgot that an American and and English woman were visiting the group, because she commented about how fat Americans are. I sat there as straight as I could sit, with my stomach sucked in, and tried not to look fat. I was of course, giggling to myself as I sat there.

By the way, I was overweight but not obese. Having someone talk about fat Americans just made me feel fat.

Oh, another story. My friend and I were in Málaga and stopped at a little outdoor cafe. The proprietor took one look at my friend, who weighs 260 but is very tall, and grabbed a larger chair for her. We cracked up.

I recorded that experience on my little digital recorder and when we listened to it that evening, we cracked up all over again.

nytraveler

I have traveled to europe with friends and colleagues who were plump or portly or stout or overweight or downright obese. I don't recall that any of them were ever treated in an unkind way.

And I certainly don't think that one has to be a size 10 to travel to europe. Despite what one might think, there are a LOT of europeans that are larger people. In fact, I would think they might get more negative feedback in CA than in europe. (You don't specify the kind of feedback - so I'm not really sure what you mean.)

However, there are a couple of things you should note:

Flying overnight in a very small coach seat might not be comfortable, especially for your mother. I don;t know her measurements, so I can't be sure. One consideration in selecting airline might be both the width of the seat and the room between rows of seats. (I'm only 5'9" and I have trouble with knee/leg room in the smaller rows of seats - but luckily have enough FF points that we do either business or first to europe. My DH is 6'3" and he simply doesn't fit in coach seats.)

Also, not sure how much walking they are used to doing - but vacations in europe typically involve lots of walking - even in cities. We typically do something like 8 miles a day or so - but being New Yorkers we are used to walking a lot (often will do that on a Sunday to work off brunch). But even for us after the 3rd or 4th day we may plan a day of less walking. (The good news is that even with the delicious european food I typically lose weight on vacation - perhaps 4 or 5 pounds in a 2 week trip - even thought I eat and drink more than at home.)

If they are more used to car travel I would suggest that they both get started on walking regimens to build up their stamina so that they are fully able to enjoy their vacation and not feel too exhausted by it. Or have to limit the things that they do.

Also, if they plan on taking any day tours with a group, they should know that the groups keep a steady walking pace - necessary to get through everything in the time allowed.

The only other potential issue is that in some european theaters (opera, ballet, concert, etc - especially older ones) - the seats may be smaller than in the US. Again, not a problem for your sister, but perhaps for your mom.

I definitely encourage them to do this trip - just be sure they are as prepared as possible in a physical way. they shouldn't worry about people being unkind.

lavandula

I have some friends in Germany (actually a family) who are both obese and tall and they are not regarded as unusual - you do see quite a few "powerfully-built" people in Germany so I don't think your relatives will stand out in that country, anyway. You might even find you can get good clothes in larger sizes there. Ulla Popken is a brand I know from Germany that is plus-size.

Lavandula

annhig

And I certainly don't think that one has to be a size 10 to travel to europe. Despite what one might think, there are a LOT of europeans that are larger people>>

see above.

greg

I think there are several differences in the European cities you mentioned compared to where they might have been.

These cities are ethnically very diverse, whether because of the immigrant populations or the visitors from around the world. When I enter small town local hang outs in the US, all the eyes would stare at me and they start mumbling to each other. In the big European cities you mentioned, no one cares. I am yet another of the hundreds of strange faces they encounter.

Another difference is that unless you go to low end chain store type of places, the businesses are run by professional people experienced in dealing with people with various needs. Contrast this to minimum wage clueless salespeople I encounter in the US who would rather be sending messages on their smartphones.

And finally, I think one's attitude towards others influences their reaction to you more than anything else. I have seen many instances where Americans showed condescending attitude towards store employees and they showed cold reactions in return. I suspect when they went back to the US, they would complain about the rude French people, etc, but in reality it was probably a tit for tat.

nytraveler

Sorry -

Note that the trip is planned for Paris, Florence and Amsterdam.

Unlike in the US - where it's difficult to tell what anyone is - europeans tend to look like what they are - not 100%, but in the aggregate.

So the French and Italian people will tend to be darker, shorter and often narrow or slender of build (although what I have seen on beaches in Italy - especially older men - is sometimes not to be believed). However, the Dutch are generally much larger, usually tall and often sturdily built.

I remember being in Stockholm - it is the only time I have ever not felt very tall - and blond. And the sample shoes in the store windows were my size - a 9 - not like the US, or other parts of europe - where samples are usually a 6.

People come in all sizes and shapes and your family should focus on enjoying the trip - not who is skinnier than they are.

logos999

>I am worried they may be treated unkindly

As mentioned, there's a large number of really fat
people in Germany, I mean really stuffed with nothing but junk food US style. Fatty, fat ;-) And yes, people stare at everybody, that's just the way we are. But then nobody really cares how you look, people mind their own business. It would be a lot of stress, picking on the fatties, wehen everybody is fat, wouldn't it.

hetismij2

<<Europeans can be overtly judgmental about the way women are dressed, and some common American tourist "uniforms" on women-- walking shorts, fanny packs, crew socks and athletic shoes, women who wear men's t-shirts and baseball caps -- get put-down looks from European fashionistas.>>

I think you'll find most Europeans couldn't care less what any tourist wears, except when visiting certain churches. It is a myth that Europeans give put down looks to people dressed as you describe. It is American Fodorites who do that on this forum. Europeans are far to busy getting on with their own lives to care much what any tourist, of any nationality is wearing. There are plenty of Europeans who wear trainers, bum bags, shorts, baseball caps. Get over it.

Your mother and sister should wear what they feel comfortable in, not what they think they should wear to match these mythical fashionistas in Europe.

lavandula

Oh, for heaven's sake, "fatty, fat" - no, Logos, I didn't say everyone in Germany was fat (your word, not mine), but my friends certainly don't attract criticism for their size in their own environment. I make the point about Ulla Popken because I know it has nice clothes. It's no big deal. Australia (where I live) has the second highest obesity rate in the world, if you are looking to get critical!

My sister-in-law, who is tall and has extremely long feet, has a lot of trouble finding shoes in her size, but whenever she goes to Germany, finds she can get a fantastic selection of shoes and buys up big. She had trouble when she was living in England in particular and finds it difficult in Sydney anyway. So what if different parts of the world cater to different size bodies. Why not admit it?

Lavandula

logos999

Germans are fat, no big deal, simply looking around you. It's the way it is. Food stores like Lidl or Aldi offer clothes esp. for fat people. Several X's not just XL. Not a Chance to buy the once common M size. I believe it's in line with the food they're offering. It makes people fat, that's the intention anyway.

I want more M at Lidl! Cheap stuff in size M aka 48.

tipsygus

I cannot imagine anyone of any European nationality even giving you sister and mother a second look much less commenting on their size. The small town i live in sees many visitors in summer and some "sights" beggar belief. I would not worry about their appearance in that respect. We tend to keep our thoughts to ourselves and not comment on others appearances.

logos999

Anyway, German (and most other EU) size "M" almost equals US size "S", so always aim for one size bigger than you actually do at home.