smacknmo

Sounds like a very nice plan. We didn't start travelling Europe with our kids until they were teens. I do regret that we didn't start earlier. Have fun planning your adventure!

Jocelyn_P

Just to muddy the waters: would Bolzano be a good place to take the kids for 3-4 days as well? I see it would be a long train ride from Lucca (6 hours), but it would paint a much different picture of Italy. We have been to Trento, but not Bolzano. Are there castles accessible without a car? Anything else besides the Ice Man museum that may be interesting for the kids?

MonicaRichards

Jocelyn: I agree with Huitres, Lucca is great! You can also make it to San Gimiagno from Lucca pretty easy with car (not sure about without). There's also a good playground right at one of the city gates.

awbaker

Hi Jocelyn! I think I told you that we are thinking about planning a trip to Venice/Verona when my kids are 6 and 4 (in 2007!)

We are thinking about renting a villa outside of Venice OR staying at the Westin on the Lido (thanks to starwood points!) It looks nice, PLUS it has a kids club for children ages 4 and up. I thought this would give them a nice break AND us a nice break once in awhile. Granted, I wouldn't consider staying on the Lido if it was just us, but I think it would be nice for the kids, AND it is close enough for us all to enjoy Venice, too. We would probably stay there for several days and then go to Verona for a few days.

I will get you that information regarding another beach location near Venice from my Italian friend soon (after our next wine club!)

AND I can give you a report about Lucca with children after our trip this summer. But Huitres and MonicaRichards seem to love visiting this city with their children.

The 4 y.o. might get tired without the stroller -- mine gets tired after a few blocks in NYC and he used it quite a bit last week in Disneyworld. But you could always walk leisurely, stopping to let them play in a piazza or to get gelato!

My sister-in-law lived in Venice when her son was 2 & 3 AND they didn't even have a stroller!! She said this time in Venice with her young son was the best time of her life!

ira

Hi Jocelyn,

Thing for your kids to do in Venice:

Chase the pigeons in Pzza San Marco
See the Arsenale
Cross the Rialto and Accademia Bridges (many times)
See the Fish Market
Walk along the canals, see all of the people in boats, walk up and down the bridges
Run all over Torcello
Ru all over the Lido Beach
Ride a vaporetto
Ride a traghetto standing up
Climb the Campanile
Play with the other children in the campos.
Eat gelato.
Accompany Mom and Dad to some of the great works of art and architecture of the Western World.

>Gosh, what would kids that age enjoy in Florence?<

See above.

trashtalk

I agree with Ira! We just got back from 10 days in Venice with a 1 year old and had a great time. We did day trips to Padua, Ferrara, Vicenza, Bassano del Grappa, Treviso as well as the islands of Murano and Burano. (Did not go to Verona only because we had been before)I would think that kids that age would have a great time. I would take issue with previous posts concerning the food and where to stay. I would highly recomend renting an apartment IN Venice. Venice at night is magic. As far as food there is plenty of variety and you are not limited to seafood in any way. I would agree that March weather might be an issue though. April or May would be best. Good Luck!

Jocelyn_P

Oh, so many possibilities...

There are so many European experiences I want to share with my kids. This first trip, ideally, should be about getting their feet wet with the whole international travel thing in a setting that's comfortable for all of us. Hopefully they'll have a good time and will look forward to returning.

Ira, I think you may have posted that list before, a long time ago, and it helped shape my vision of a trip to Venice with the kids!

I'll bet Venice would be easy to combine with Bolzano. I found that there are a few castles in/around Bolzano that are easily accessible. Are these going to be the fairy-tale type castles you see in Germany? How far would we have to go to see something like that? Or is that another trip?

Amy, I will email you soon. I hope Disneyworld was fun.

Huitres

Hi Jocelyn: I LOVE Lucca (so does Monica!). Besides being a charming, picturesque city with a small-town feel, it is the flattest of the Tuscan towns so very easy to get around on foot/stroller. Walking the circumfrence of the city walls (takes about 45 or so minutes total) is what the locals do and would be a good outing for you and the kids and way to see Lucca from a different perspective! Lucca is central to everything in Tuscany. I never rent a car and rely 100% on public transportation (trains and busses) and have never had a problem. Via train, it is 2 hours to the Cinque Terre, 1h 30 minutes to Florence, 25 minutes to Pisa, etc. Also, being in Lucca, you are close to Collodi, home to Pinocchio Park. We took a LAZZI bus from Lucca's Piazzale Verdi to the Ponte D'Alma stop and then walked the 20+ minutes to the entrance of the Park. And you are close to Siena, San Gimignano, etc too.....

I've been to Lucca about 4 or 5 times with my little one since she was 2 1/2 and we love it there. See my travel report for more details:

http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34539759

julie_Colorado

My daughter has been to Europe several times starting at 5. I would definitely move the trip to May - that's when we typically go and nice weather and long days are a huge plus. She liked Rome and Florence quite a bit (we rented an apartment in each for the week - and as others have indicated, because she has always travelled, she loves museums, good restaurants, etc). When in Florence, we had a really fun day trip to the beach - not far from Lucca. We rented umbrellas and chairs - it was so much fun - the swimming and gelato were both great. My daughter and I did Venice this past Christmas (she is now 12) and neither of us really fell in love with it. It was probably our least enjoyable European trip. Next June we are doing 2 weeks agrotourism at a place written up a good bit on slowtrav - brigolante farms. It looks very fun - near Assisi. We've taken other trips - outside Italy - that were probably her favorites - but I'll save those unless you decide you want to explore beyond Italy.

LizNYC

There is nothing at all for children to do in Venice. How many churches do you think they would enjoy seeing . . I would suggest Capri or Sorrento, much more to do with the kiddies!

StCirq

I guess it's a wonder all those Venetian children survive.

julie_Colorado

Kids survive in Cleveland too - but I'm not sure I'd holiday there...

Jocelyn_P

Okay. I've narrowed it down to two scenarios, for late May/early June 2006:

1) Fly in and out of Pisa. Base in Lucca for 8-10 days. Daytrip to Pisa, Cinque Terre, Florence, Pinocchio Park. Make good use of the Lucca playgrounds so the kids can mingle with the locals. Maybe even tour an olive oil factory? Can we do that without a car?

2) Fly into Venice. Rent an apartment in Venice for 4-5 days. See Ira's to-do list for activities. Pack up and head for the Dolomites for another 4-5 days. Stay in Ortisei. See the Ice Man museum in Bolzano, ride a cable car, do easy hikes, hang with the locals. Fly out of Innsbruck or Verona, spending the last night there.

I will get the "Italy for Kids" book for more specific activities.

Now I have about a year to waffle between the two!

MonicaRichards

About the playgrounds, if it's locals you're after, they go in the evening. Kind of different for us, seeing as here most people go to playgrounds in the morning/ midday. But in the evening their playgrounds are popping, it's the main social event.

Huitres

Lucca to Verona is 3h36m on an EC train, so perhaps you could combine that into your Lucca itinerary since basing yourself there for 8-10 days. Also, very easy to access Siena (my daughter loved running around in the open space of the Campo) and other adjacent towns.

Another fun place to visit with kids is 'Il Terrenia' on the coastline between Pisa and Livorno. They whole area is geared for kids and light-hearted summer fun. There are about 3 distinct play areas with toys the kids can ride (Snow White, Winnie the Pooh, go-cart type cars, etc), in addition to the merry-go-round. Every time we are in Tuscany, we make that one of our stops because my child loves it so. There are also neat shops along the main street (gelato places, clothing stores, etc). The feeling is very much a casual resort town without pretension. We went to the beach and laid out on chairs complete with umbrella for free (no fee!). It is always fun to go to 'Il Terrenia' (about 15 mins from Livorno, 25 mins from Pisa). You can take a bus out there from either city for very cheap (plus kids ride bus free).

There are lots of parks around in each city in Italy and indeed, as Monica pointed out, the Italians take their kids there in the evenings (from about 4:00 pm onward they show up through our typical dinner hour - they tend to eat much later). I worked it out that we would eat ~ 7 or 7:30 pm, then go to the park ~8:30 for a good 30-40 mins of playing. Got her good and tired, she went straight to bed. You will find your normal schedule thrown off because the Italians do everything later. I had to adjust her bedtime to later, but then she would not get up as early in the morning and we would start out ~ 10:00/11:00 am or so each day (vs. earlier).

Either itinerary you decide on, you will have fun. Even the smallest things you'll encounter will be fun and memorable for your children. It doesn't take much for them to enjoy themselves. The train alone is a blast every time we ride it!

amelia

I think you're on to something with the Lucca-based itinerary.

ira

Hi jocelyn,

Two good scenarios.

Yes, you can do the Lucca trip without a car.

See trai schedules at www.trenitalia.com/en

Melissa5

Jocelyn_P, I think it's great you want to travel with your 4 and 6 year old, and I think your family will have a great time because you are realistic and fair in considering their needs.

My "kids" are now between ages 17 and 23...and still love travelling with us. We try to make it fun for everyone, as we always have.

For a 4 and 6 year old, think hands-on. They like to get their hands into things...so include in your plans things like playing in the sand (beach?), swimming (pool? lake?), and try to find any hands-on museums...kids love that. You might find them in big cities if you research or get a book on Europe with kids. Kids that age like animals too...even feeding the pigeons is fun for them (much to everyone else's annoyance, but kids have to have fun too!)

I wouldn't take a 2-year-old to Venice because they are hard to reason with and might indeed fall into the canal. But with a 4 and a 6 year old, it's time for them to experiment more with the world...They might dart to the water's edge, but that's okay, you teach them how to enjoy the water without falling in. (Hey, even if they do fall in, you can always fish them out...I actually saw a drunk young man jump into the canal on purpose, and he was fine! It's illegal to swim in the canal of course.) If my child were that curious that he might fall into the water, I'd rather he do it while I'm watching, so that I can make sure he survives testing his limits around water...If you don't take your 4 and 6 year old around water, they won't know how to handle water when you're not around...

Of course you'll watch them carefully around the water, every second, so chances are you'll worry that they will fall in, but it won't actually happen. If you watch them every second they won't fall in, but you might not feel too relaxed I suppose...

If you take them to Venice stay for 3 days and buy each person the 3-day vaporetto pass which allows unlimited on and off privileges on the vaporettos. The adult 3-day vaporetto pass is 22 euros each. I don't know if there's a kids price.

As far as all the walking, if you don't take them walking of course they will grow up to be lazy lumps. You are right to want to take them to explore new places, at their level of ability. You take them walking as much as they are willing...My 2-year-old son walked and walked everywhere...he wouldn't sit in the stroller...he was just so curious and wanted to see everything...We never forced him to walk...he walked because he wanted to. When he got tired, we either returned to the hotel for a nap, or we put him up on his Dad's shoulders for a ride. My youngest daughter was the same way.

With my middle daughter, she would stop every few paces to examine some little bug or some little treasure she spotted, so when she was along we had to slow down to examine the fine details...

Plan a trip everyone will enjoy. Have fun! Enjoy your kids.

Huitres

Re: a "hands-on" adventure, if basing yourself in Lucca, it is entirely feasible that you could take a day trip (train) up to Genoa to see the Aquarium there. It is Europe's largest and was very interesting to see. (Lucca to Genoa is a 3 hour train ride). My daughter loves fish and there is an open touch pool area with sting-rays in there! They harmlessly swam all around, flapping themselves and not disturbing anyone.

There is also Genoa's "Citta dei Bambini" (City of the Children) building/museum adjacent to the aquarium too; in addition to a very lively park, and lots of fun mechanical toys and miniature carousel to ride. You could easily spend an entire day at the port - not to mention seeing the huge galleon from "Pirates of the Carribean" docked there (I would imagine your 2 boys would love seeing that).

Jocelyn_P

Quick update:

We just got back from a long weekend in Dallas, spending a lot of time in noisy, crowded situations. Neither of the kids were bothered one bit, so I'm putting Rome back in the running.

PS: during the trip my 4 year old proclaimed that she was having such a great time and that she wanted to see all the cities in the whole world. We'd better get moving!